[THW] Review Samples vs Retail R9290x boards(large differences)

[Abwx]

Most of us aren't willing to cut a gaping hole in order to aid venting...

An old card will be just good for the purpose...

It s obvious that the exhaust area can be increased by about
20% by increasing the holes size , it s as less flux pressure and
consequently as much flux speed , it should reduce significantly
the fan speeds for any given thermal dissipation since there will
be less resistance.

 

[railven]

An old card will be just good for the purpose...

It s obvious that the exhaust area can be increased by about
20% by increasing the holes size , it s as less flux pressure and
consequently as much flux speed , it should reduce significantly
the fan speeds for any given thermal dissipation since there will
be less resistance.

Quick send this easy solution to AMD, since they obviously couldn't think of it first they need as much help as they can salvaging this train wreck.

If this is all it takes, they should fire some of their engineers for not already including a high flow bracket!

 

[Abwx]

Quick send this easy solution to AMD, since they obviously couldn't think of it first they need as much help as they can salvaging this train wreck.

If this is all it takes, they should fire some of their engineers for not already including a high flow bracket!

This is for thoses who are pressed and want quasi
after market specs without waiting for actual products ,
personaly would i do it whatever the card.

 

[Saylick]

This is for thoses who are pressed and want quasi
after market specs without waiting for actual products ,
personaly would i do it whatever the card.

I would rather buy an aftermarket heatsink before I take such drastic measures, but that's my take on the matter. Shouldn't be that big of a deal, though. Aftermarket cards are rumored to be out in 2 weeks...

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I suspect after examination that the cooler is not the real
culprit of the retail cards unability to run within specs with
reduced speeds in respect of the ref cards..

A hint :

WTF? It looks like the exhaust is only open halfway because of where the shroud is. I assume that's what you were pointing out.

ALSO, your posts are annoying as hell to read on a cell phone. Putting those returns in ruins line length scaling to meet screen resolution. Just so you know.

 

[Pariah]

WTF? It looks like the exhaust is only open halfway because of where the shroud is. I assume that's what you were pointing out.

The angle of the photo makes that look much more blocked than it is. Also, the heat sink does not go all the way down to the card, it stops above the HDMI/display ports, so no air flow is getting blocked below that point despite some of the vent slots going between those ports. Go to newegg and look at end on pictures of the card.

Below is a reference 780Ti

Here is a 290x

Notice that the 290x has more venting than the 780Ti. The back plate is not the problem. The AMD HSF design is simply crap. That's the problem. It wasn't good on the 5870, it was worse on the 7970 and it is horrific for a card like the 290x. AMD engineers should be embarrassed that they haven't made any attempt to improve a design that was poor 4 years ago.

 

[wlee15]

The AMD HSF design is simply crap. That's the problem. It wasn't good on the 5870, it was worse on the 7970 and it is horrific for a card like the 290x. AMD engineers should be embarrassed that they haven't made any attempt to improve a design that was poor 4 years ago.

The HD 5870 ref HSF is considerably different from the R9 290X HSF.

 

[SPBHM]

Below is a reference 780Ti

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/14-487-001-Z02?$S300$
Here is a 290x
http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/14-150-675-Z02?$S300$

it looks like the 780 Ti still have the pins for analog VGA output while the 290 doesn't lol

I'm curious, anyone have pictures of the 290 hsf without all the plastic? the fan looks a lot like their old fan from the HD 4800 days

 

[ShintaiDK]

it looks like the 780 Ti still have the pins for analog VGA output while the 290 doesn't lol

I'm curious, anyone have pictures of the 290 hsf without all the plastic? the fan looks a lot like their old fan from the HD 4800 days

Like this one?

Compared to nVidia:

Its clear why there is so much difference on the two.

 

[Will Robinson]

Yes, you're right,I can see at least $100-150 more has been spent on the NVDA card.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Yes, you're right,I can see at least $100-150 more has been spent on the NVDA card.

Time for you to document it. Or is it just made up?

 

[HurleyBird]

Its clear why there is so much difference on the two.

The heatsink itself might be marginally larger on the titan cooler, but AMD's reference fan looks very shallow compared to the one on Titan. That has to be the biggest difference. Titan's fan is putting out more CFM, and probably has a better acoustic profile at the same RPM.

 

[ShintaiDK]

The heatsink itself might be marginally larger on the titan cooler, but AMD's reference fan looks very shallow compared to the one on Titan. That has to be the biggest difference. Titan's fan is putting out more CFM, and probably has a better acoustic profile at the same RPM.

I think there is 3 factors. The heatsink is bigger. The fan as you explained. And the ability to vent to the side as well.

Its just a wonder why AMD didnt spend a bit more to solve their issue with a better cooler. Instead of selling a bad product.

 

[Abwx]

I would rather buy an aftermarket heatsink before I take such drastic measures, but that's my take on the matter. Shouldn't be that big of a deal, though. Aftermarket cards are rumored to be out in 2 weeks...

Of course i would remove the original panel for warranty
purposes and use the back panel of an old card.

WTF? It looks like the exhaust is only open halfway because of where the shroud is. I assume that's what you were pointing out.

That s it , the available area is not efficently used at all , they should
have not put a large separation between the upper and bottom holes
or better , no separation at all.

This closed area is easily 20 if not 30% of the available surface.

ALSO, your posts are annoying as hell to read on a cell phone. Putting those returns in ruins line length scaling to meet screen resolution. Just so you know.

Sorry , will do an effort in this direction..

Notice that the 290x has more venting than the 780Ti. The back plate is not the problem. The AMD HSF design is simply crap. That's the problem. It wasn't good on the 5870, it was worse on the 7970 and it is horrific for a card like the 290x. AMD engineers should be embarrassed that they haven't made any attempt to improve a design that was poor 4 years ago.

First the 780ti fan spin faster than the Radeon s , second is that
it depend of how the flux is directed to the exhaust , it is
obvious that the radeon flux is pushed through the whole
back panel surface while with the 780 it is directed to the
upper half , surely that the bottom half couldnt allow for
the flux to get out due to the cooler design that is thick
at this location.

 

[Abwx]

The heatsink itself might be marginally larger on the titan cooler, but AMD's reference fan looks very shallow compared to the one on Titan. That has to be the biggest difference. Titan's fan is putting out more CFM, and probably has a better acoustic profile at the same RPM.

That s it , it spin faster but at lesser noise according
to the tests made at hardware.fr.

 

[Leadbox]

Its just a wonder why AMD didnt spend a bit more to solve their issue with a better cooler. Instead of selling a bad product.

Because they weren't fixing on selling too many reference cards and probably had a tonne of coolers they couldn't just scrap on top of hitting certain price points

 

[HurleyBird]

The titan cooler also appears to be using fewer, thicker, more spaced apart fins while the AMD cooling solution looks like it has thinner more tightly packed fins. I don't have any concrete evidence, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia did more testing and found a better fin layout than AMD.

 

[Erenhardt]

Like this one?

Compared to nVidia:

Its clear why there is so much difference on the two.

looks like nvidia is dumping some heat to inside the case. Is it still blower design then?

 

[HurleyBird]

looks like nvidia is dumping some heat to inside the case. Is it still blower design then?

The vast majority of heat is being dumped outside, so I'd so. Even AMD's designs vent some heat into the case.

 

[Abwx]

The titan cooler also appears to be using fewer, thicker, more spaced apart fins while the AMD cooling solution looks like it has thinner more tightly packed fins. I don't have any concrete evidence, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia did more testing and found a better fin layout than AMD.

Thick is not forcibly good , what matters is the surface
such that the air/cooler contact zone is as high as possible,
thickening the wings will increase the thermal inertia but once
heated it will be also harder to reduce the temp when full power
is no more drained but we can clearly guess the advantage when
benchmarking the products.

From the photos it seems that Nvidia s cooler has more height
wich allow for a high surface despite the added thickness.

 

[Abwx]

looks like nvidia is dumping some heat to inside the case. Is it still blower design then?

If the card is not covered it will effectively blow most
of its flux inside the box , i dont knwo exactly the usual
solutions but contrary to what is said in the post above
it would have nothing to do with AMD solution wich blow
all his heated air outside of the box.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Well hopefully the aftermarket coolers will address the issues that seem to be bothering folks.

 

[Pariah]

Yes, you're right,I can see at least $100-150 more has been spent on the NVDA card.

What the pictures don't show is how much it costs to hire and pay engineers to not design a crap reference design.

 

[24601]

What the pictures don't show is how much it costs to hire and pay engineers to not design a crap reference design.

I highly doubt Nvidia's design is patented. I would have expected AMD/ATi to at least do a carbon copy of the basic design of the Titan cooler by now. It's been out for a very long time now.

 

[HurleyBird]

Thick is not forcibly good , what matters is the surface
such that the air/cooler contact zone is as high as possible,
thickening the wings will increase the thermal inertia but once
heated it will be also harder to reduce the temp when full power
is no more drained but we can clearly guess the advantage when
benchmarking the products.

From the photos it seems that Nvidia s cooler has more height
wich allow for a high surface despite the added thickness.

What you wrote is more or less true, but a bit oversimplified. Historically speaking a larger number of tightly and packed thinner fins can dissipate more heat thanks to having more surface area, but because of the smaller gap between fins tend to work best with high airflow. Heatsinks with thicker, spaced apart fins tend to do a better job at lower RPMs even if they lack in maximum theoretical performance.

You are correct the the fins on the Titan appear to be deeper than on the AMD reference cooler, though the difference in depth doesn't look quite as extreme as the difference between the fans.

EDIT: In case anyone is interested, I did a quick count of 52 fins on the AMD heatsink and 34 on the Titan heatsink. This means that Nvidia's fins are spaced out about 50% further apart than AMD's. Looking at various pictures, it also seems that the Nvidia fins are more consistent, with the AMD solution having a number of bent fins that increase air resistance.