Time for Immigration Reform?

[SheHateMe]

If the gov't is going to pay them to sit around, then why should they?

I see..its the Governments' fault that some Americans are just downright lazy and down want labor jobs.

 

[davmat787]

Illegals... either we're going to have a civil war, or we're simply going to play half assed measures at insulting them until we finally FULLY embrace them. So why bother insulting them if you're not forcibly removing them?

There's no point in not welcoming your fellow Americans, because that's who they are. You're certainly not going to do a damn thing to change that.

I kind of see that as a catch-22. In order to fully embrace them, you need to provide amnesty but also fix the porous border and insane immigration policy as it stands.

I say this because currently it is a game of who can sneak across the border without being caught or dying or getting cheated by their coyote. And once here, they must live as 2nd class citizens since they don't have full and legal citizenship.

Fixing and perhaps streamlining the immigration process would no doubt help, along with protecting the border more efficiently. Make it easier to get in legally, and harder to get in illegally. The carrot and the stick approach.

 

[peonyu]

And that is how you lost the election

I know quite a few hispanics and they all without hesitation voted for Obama, so you are right. The reason they voted for Obama is because of the "deferred-action" policy he passed in June, which is quasi amnesty for 800,000-2 million illegal aliens in the US under the age of 30. I cant count how many hispanics I saw who were extremely emotional and voting Obama..They were voting Obama for reasons of self-interest for "their" race and not for the interest of the nation.

Now how do you counter that ?
How does the GOP one-up deferred-action which is as close to amnesty that you can get ? Full blown amnesty is pretty much the only way to counter what the Dems gave to the Hispanic population via the deferred-action policy. If the GOP promises full blown amnesty for every illegal alien in the US then they may have a shot next time of grabbing the hispanic vote. There you go, thats what is needed. Full blown amnesty. Obama set the bar high and the only thing higher is amnesty.


As far as I go, I see Deferred-action as a pure vote-gaining move by Obama, it was timed a few months before the election and it worked. Thats shady, and he played it off as though he really just "cared" for young illegal aliens...If that was the case then why wait 3 and a half years to pass it ? It was for votes, and I disagree with bypassing Congress and making new laws just to gain votes, in the longterm its going to fuck this country up. But integrity is not something we have much left of in this country to begin with, amnesty will be given this term or will be a campaign promise from one [or both] parties in 2016 imo.


http://www.boston.com/politicalinte...deportation/andhGTWZtcf35T21dzq0nI/story.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferred_Action_for_Childhood_Arrivals

 

[xochi]

I love it that some of you guys think all Hispanics are poor and uneducated. It’s like one day in the last decade millions just popped into this Country and someone said there sure are a lot of Mexicans here, I bet they are all illegal! Mexico is very much part of US history and Hispanics have always been in the Border States, but largely forgotten or ignored by politics.

I think it was Ronald Reagan who said that “Hispanics are Republicans, they just don't know it yet” And he was absolutely correct. Let’s see; Christian Conservative, (mostly Catholic), serve the Military in large numbers, and strong work ethic. Good thinking GOP to disenfranchise them as much as possible.

I’m a sixth generation US citizen Mexican American. I’m a land owner, college educated, love hunting/shooting, benefit from Oil/Gas and doing very well financially. By every means test I should vote Republican, but I don’t like the hate. In addition, i'm not any different than my huge extended family. The exception is most of them are more succesful than i am.
haha

2016 Julian Castro baby

 

[shortylickens]

I love it that every time we discuss illegals you always go on about how great hispanics are. God forbid you should ever argue the issue at hand.

 

[xochi]

Yes, i constantly go on and on about it. What is the issue at hand?

 

[Incorruptible]

I know quite a few hispanics and they all without hesitation voted for Obama, so you are right. The reason they voted for Obama is because of the "deferred-action" policy he passed in June, which is quasi amnesty for 800,000-2 million illegal aliens in the US under the age of 30. I cant count how many hispanics I saw who were extremely emotional and voting Obama..They were voting Obama for reasons of self-interest for "their" race and not for the interest of the nation.

Now how do you counter that ?
How does the GOP one-up deferred-action which is as close to amnesty that you can get ? Full blown amnesty is pretty much the only way to counter what the Dems gave to the Hispanic population via the deferred-action policy. If the GOP promises full blown amnesty for every illegal alien in the US then they may have a shot next time of grabbing the hispanic vote. There you go, thats what is needed. Full blown amnesty. Obama set the bar high and the only thing higher is amnesty.


As far as I go, I see Deferred-action as a pure vote-gaining move by Obama, it was timed a few months before the election and it worked. Thats shady, and he played it off as though he really just "cared" for young illegal aliens...If that was the case then why wait 3 and a half years to pass it ? It was for votes, and I disagree with bypassing Congress and making new laws just to gain votes, in the longterm its going to fuck this country up. But integrity is not something we have much left of in this country to begin with, amnesty will be given this term or will be a campaign promise from one [or both] parties in 2016 imo.


http://www.boston.com/politicalinte...deportation/andhGTWZtcf35T21dzq0nI/story.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferred_Action_for_Childhood_Arrivals

That is wrong though, Hispanics care more about their own race than the country, who cares if the economy needs to be fixed as long as my people get amnesty. This is why a lot of people have a problem with Hispanics many dont care about the country or the issues that matter

 

[xochi]

That is wrong though, Hispanics care more about their own race than the country, who cares if the economy needs to be fixed as long as my people get amnesty. This is why a lot of people have a problem with Hispanics many dont care about the country or the issues that matter

But I am thinking about the country.

If terms of accounting, you are thinking a liability, i'm thinking an asset. It really is as simple as that.

 

[peonyu]

I love it that some of you guys think all Hispanics are poor and uneducated. It’s like one day in the last decade millions just popped into this Country and someone said there sure are a lot of Mexicans here, I bet they are all illegal! Mexico is very much part of US history and Hispanics have always been in the Border States, but largely forgotten or ignored by politics.

I think it was Ronald Reagan who said that “Hispanics are Republicans, they just don't know it yet” And he was absolutely correct. Let’s see; Christian Conservative, (mostly Catholic), serve the Military in large numbers, and strong work ethic. Good thinking GOP to disenfranchise them as much as possible.

I’m a sixth generation US citizen Mexican American. I’m a land owner, college educated, love hunting/shooting, benefit from Oil/Gas and doing very well financially. By every means test I should vote Republican, but I don’t like the hate. In addition, i'm not any different than my huge extended family. The exception is most of them are more succesful than i am.
haha

2016 Julian Castro baby

Immigration = Votes. Most hispanics are not illegal but plenty have a relative who is [or was]. The main break the Dems have from the Republicans is immigration, the Dems are de facto pro-amnesty now. In contrast Reagan [a Republican] 20+ years ago GAVE amnesty to almost 8 million Mexicans, the Republican party was THE party for latino's back then..They are not the same party at all today.

 

[Incorruptible]

But I am thinking about the country.

If terms of accounting, you are thinking a liability, i'm thinking an asset. It really is as simple as that.

How? The Hispanics voted for obama for amnesty, it doesnt seem they care about the debt or foreign policy. As long as their own race gets in and they have the welfare then its alright

 

[Svnla]

Republicans live in a alternate reality field if they believe they are going to round up 30 million ppl, say 12 million illegals and 18 million US citizen children and send them back. NEVER going to happen.

Eisenhower rounded up only 400,000 and there was hell to pay even then.

Reagen smartly gave citizenship to around 4 million rather than look like a meany.

30 million? no chance.

If Republicans were smart they'd be pushing a path to citizenship.

Most of the time, I would agree with your posts but not this time.

We tried to do the citizenship/amnesty/forgiven/whatever you called it back then in the 80's and look what happend. ILLEGALS are up and not down. That's a fact.

Just as I said in my previous post in this thread, instead of gettting more smart and educated folks to build the next Google/Yahoo/Intel/PayPal/etc., we would get the uneducated with no skill peasants. Is that a smart policy? If that is a good idea, then why no developed country on Earth is doing it?

To the poster that said there are rich Hispanics, sure, there are some exceptions to the rule but let look at the overwhelming characteristics of the ILLEGALS that came here by sneaked in. If they are rich and smart with skills, why would they bother to risk their lives to sneak in ILLEGALLY?

Keep giving out citizenship and amnesty to the ILLEGALS and the US could end up as the third world country they ran away from.

 

[lupi]

I find it difficult to start the conversation at the let's just make them all citizens part when there is no visible intention to prevent a new wave from taking their place.

 

[Zebo]

Most of the time, I would agree with your posts but not this time.

We tried to do the citizenship/amnesty/forgiven/whatever you called it back then in the 80's and look what happend. ILLEGALS are up and not down. That's a fact.

Just as I said in my previous post in this thread, instead of gettting more smart and educated folks to build the next Google/Yahoo/Intel/PayPal/etc., we would get the uneducated with no skill peasants. Is that a smart policy? If that is a good idea, then why no developed country on Earth is doing it?

To the poster that said there are rich Hispanics, sure, there are some exceptions to the rule but let look at the overwhelming characteristics of the ILLEGALS that came here by sneaked in. If they are rich and smart with skills, why would they bother to risk their lives to sneak in ILLEGALLY?

Keep giving out citizenship and amnesty to the ILLEGALS and the US could end up as the third world country they ran away from.

No it's not smart policy but it's practical policy. Sometimes you work with tools given and make it better. There are ways to make this situation better. But holding on to pipe dream of deportation is a surefire way to lose for Republicans. It's mean spirited and some would even say racist.

 

[ivwshane]

Most of the time, I would agree with your posts but not this time.

We tried to do the citizenship/amnesty/forgiven/whatever you called it back then in the 80's and look what happend. ILLEGALS are up and not down. That's a fact.

Just as I said in my previous post in this thread, instead of gettting more smart and educated folks to build the next Google/Yahoo/Intel/PayPal/etc., we would get the uneducated with no skill peasants. Is that a smart policy? If that is a good idea, then why no developed country on Earth is doing it?

To the poster that said there are rich Hispanics, sure, there are some exceptions to the rule but let look at the overwhelming characteristics of the ILLEGALS that came here by sneaked in. If they are rich and smart with skills, why would they bother to risk their lives to sneak in ILLEGALLY?

Keep giving out citizenship and amnesty to the ILLEGALS and the US could end up as the third world country they ran away from.

What you failed to realize is that the illegal immigrant population isn't up because of amnesty but because of a history of failures to enforce current immigration policy and a policy of treating the symptom and not the problem, ie not doing anything to businesses that purposely hire illegals.

 

[peonyu]

I find it difficult to start the conversation at the let's just make them all citizens part when there is no visible intention to prevent a new wave from taking their place.

Amnesty will happen, its all about votes now. The logic behind it doesn't matter, if it nets votes then "lets do it!" is the gameplan today. The Republicans tried to stick to their typical game plan this election and it failed, you need the hispanic vote to win the swing states now and if you dont have them then you lose. Obama giving out quasi amnesty to illegals under the age of 30 clenched the hispanic vote alone...Ohio was close enough to be swayed by the hispanic vote, and Florida without a doubt was called by hispanic voters in favor of Obama.

The Republican party is in a horrible spot now, minorities will not vote for them at all today. Black people [as long as it is a black Dem candidate vs a white Republican] will NOT vote for the white guy at all so the Republicans should not even try there...Hispanics can be "bought" by promising amnesty.

In 2016 the Republicans will promise amnesty, i will eat my words if they dont. And I would not be surprised at all to see either a Black candidate run as the Republican candidate OR a hispanic.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Yes, I think that immigration reform must be accomplished. But I am not sure how the GOP core constituency will handle it.

 

[Svnla]

No it's not smart policy but it's practical policy. Sometimes you work with tools given and make it better. There are ways to make this situation better. But holding on to pipe dream of deportation is a surefire way to lose for Republicans. It's mean spirited and some would even say racist.

Giving up and rewarding bad behavior/law breaking = not practical.

Here is what I said in another thread = http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=34155980&postcount=102

We have the tools and the mean and the law to do it. We just do not have the will to enforce the current immigration law and the gut to make the hard choice.

Any sovereign countries on Earth have the right to enforce their immigration laws and control the in/out flow of their borders.

What you failed to realize is that the illegal immigrant population isn't up because of amnesty but because of a history of failures to enforce current immigration policy and a policy of treating the symptom and not the problem, ie not doing anything to businesses that purposely hire illegals.

What you fail to see is rewarding bad behavior/law breaking WILL encourage MORE bad behavior/law breaking. See my post above to Zebo.

 

[Aikouka]

I think that Romney could have came off a lot better to Latino voters if he at least seemed compassionate. I actually agree with his position as I don't care for people breaking the law and I think it's unfair to those that are waiting to come here, but honestly... you have to sugar coat this stuff. I recall wincing during the second debate when he flat out told that Latina lady that he was going to send 'em packing (not his exact words).

People wonder why others describe Romney as unable to relate.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

The problem with illegal immigration is we can enforce the law but we don't The question always comes down to what do we do with those who have already broken the law.

You know you lose votes by cracking down, and so we kinda let those who have already hopped the border slide. We give them easy paths out. Maybe not straight out amnesty, but we offer anchor babies help, etc. So while we give these folks an easy way out, we don't go ahead and clamp down on new offenders and new violators. We don't step up and enforce the laws.

So in the end you have a growing pool of illegal immigrants and you refuse to do anything to enforce the law on them. You never fix the damage that's been done, and then you don't fix the leak.

You have to start enforcing the law on current violators in order to show that you're serious and that you're willing to clamp down in the future.

 

[chucky2]

I hear you guys on sending back the ones here illegally alread, but, much as it'd be nice to, it's never going to happen. The US public et al does not have the stomach to see crying people on TV getting bussed/flown back to Mexico. The Media would be eating it up even more than Obummer at election time. Every second of every newscast would be some cute crying mexican girl 4 years old, and then "unbiasedly" "reporting the news" be keeping that on 24x7 and asking rhetorical questions that aren't unbiased at all. All the while, hoping their housekeeper and/or lawn folks they've been happily exploiting all these years won't get caught up in the net because then they'll have to get new ones....and, horrifically, might even have to pay legal worker wages.

Because of this, the weak will US Public, probably 60% of which, for various reasons, are already fine with the status quo, will whine. And they'll be whining to their Politicians. Politicians, more than anything in the world, want to be re-elected. So even if the mass deportation started, which it won't ever get off the suggestion level, if that, it'd be quashed most rickety tick in the name of some BS like 'Compassion for the less fortunate' or 'American values for American hopefulls', or some other nice BS catchphrase.

In short: Get the deportation out of your heads. It will never happen, other than the pitiful token amount we do now, just to say we 'enforce border integrity', and, of course, to keep those funds coming in (and hence, tax dollars...and deficit spent dollars).

You have a far higher chance of getting the border militarized, with pre-authorized use of deadly force, which is what needs to be done anyways, than you do of deportation. Neither will happen while Bummer is in the house, so sit back for another 4 years a few million Mexicans in, the problem will only be getting worse.

Chuck

 

[werepossum]

The cynical part of me says that fiscal conservatives should just say F'it and go whole hog for the Dems. Free healthcare for all, free education, endless welfare, double SS pay-outs, the whole unsustainable package. If the rest of the country is determined to drive off a fiscal cliff, we might as well floor the accelerator and enjoy the ride. It's only after the crash that we'll be shocked as a nation into a more realistic system, one with tighter controls on long-term debt. As it is now, the gov't is structurally flawed - there are literally NO incentives to prohibit bankrupting ourselves. No one cares about the long-term sustainability of the country.

True. Might as well enjoy the ride.

republicans offer lots of free stuff. Bush grew spending by 45% over clinton and required no one to pay for it.

Free on front end and back end.

Least dems are asking ppl to pay. We'll see how that goes tho. Usually when they start seriously rasing taxes Republicans can sweep in.

I'm not worried about Republicans. Tick tock.

Dems are asking OTHER PEOPLE to pay. We'll give you SWAG, and we'll punish the rich by making them pay for it. It works on two levels, as people naturally want free stuff and as our national character has changed (or degraded) to enjoy seeing others punished. How much of television today involves real people stabbing each of in the backs, conspiring against one another to vote someone off the team/island/tree house? How much is people that viewers love to make fun of, be it Cardashians or Snooki or Honey Boo Boo?

I love it that some of you guys think all Hispanics are poor and uneducated. It’s like one day in the last decade millions just popped into this Country and someone said there sure are a lot of Mexicans here, I bet they are all illegal! Mexico is very much part of US history and Hispanics have always been in the Border States, but largely forgotten or ignored by politics.

I think it was Ronald Reagan who said that “Hispanics are Republicans, they just don't know it yet” And he was absolutely correct. Let’s see; Christian Conservative, (mostly Catholic), serve the Military in large numbers, and strong work ethic. Good thinking GOP to disenfranchise them as much as possible.

I’m a sixth generation US citizen Mexican American. I’m a land owner, college educated, love hunting/shooting, benefit from Oil/Gas and doing very well financially. By every means test I should vote Republican, but I don’t like the hate. In addition, i'm not any different than my huge extended family. The exception is most of them are more succesful than i am.
haha

2016 Julian Castro baby

Most second or third generation ethnically Mexican Americans are indistinguishable from other Americans. We have an ethnically Mexican lady in our office, and frankly I wish I had a dozen of her. However, if by your actions you collectively encourage floods of uneducated Hispanics into our country it doesn't really matter if you want to empower the reconquista or want to see America as a Spanish-speaking nation or just "don’t like the hate", the end affect is the same.

We are fast becoming Greece, except a Greece where we don't even have a common language. 60% of American households now get more from the federal government than they contribute. At this point, the nation is probably not savable.