Time to stop Seti

[lane42]

BOINC for now and fire all machines to Classic. I can only ask some of the other guy's running BOINC to switch back for a while, Ace, chris, Match, Wayne, Ingle, Bax.. BBR is only 84K away

 

[Rattledagger]

Looking on the SETI@home/BOINC-production the last weeks, it seems Anandtech can get roughly 1k wu/day more in "classic" if everyone switches back...

... but, at the same time BBR can get roughly 3k wu/day if everyone on their team switches from SETI@home/BOINC back to "classic"...


Of the other BOINC-teams, CPDN + Einstein@home can give a little more than 1k wu/day in "classic", with BBR only around 300.

LHC@home have seldom work, and Predictor@home has so little production that it's really no point to switch from any of these projects.

 

[JWMiddleton]

TA: 84109 wu's

Unreal!! This really stinks!

 

[Dalephi]

The situation is getting pretty grim.

We need all the help we can get.

 

[dmcowen674]

I don't understand, why run BOINC until SETI Classic is shut off???

 

[networkman]

Warning: I'm going to say something that isn't going to be popular, but is likely something that others than just myself are thinking.

Why does it *seem* to me that people are always asking the member of TA to come to the aid of Seti@Home?

I'll grant you that BBR is a formiddable team - I really do respect their efforts - they've done a marvelous job of keeping up the pace.

What I don't understand is why the Seti@Home project founders keep dragging this classic version on and on and on? It's been announced that *soon* the project will be coming to an end. That's been a theme now for what.. years? :roll: When does it end? Really?!?

I remember well the S@H members hoping for a boost when the RC5-64 project would end, as well as OGR and GammaFlux. And those projects did end.. some folks did indeed move on to Seti, some chose other projects, and probably some others had simply had enough after such a long committment.

So when does the Seti@Home "classic" project come to an end? Unfortunately, even if someone were to say to me, "Rich, the project directors say it's going to be a month from now", I'd have to reply with "I don't believe it, and I base that on past statements about *soon* and such."

Look people, the S@H project directors have already sent out a letter congratulating us on a Top 10 finish and thanked us for our committment to the project. And most of you already know that I, as well as many of yourselves, have gone to rather..er..bizarre lengths for the TeAm. But some of us(I suspect), maybe not.. maybe it's just me think that the twenty plus other DC projects deserve attention.

I've said my piece - flame away if you must.

 

[superkdogg]

I'm with Lan Man.

I switched to E@H a couple months ago. We were getting spanked until TAS came aboard, and could still use some help. Besides, I've seen Smoke and others recruit new TeAmmates with lots of wu and drastically change the scoreboard in a day or two, so 84,000 WU (aka the output of my DC rigs for 4,200 days) is a pretty decent lead and the sooner the project ends, the better for TeAm's final result.

I totally don't want to TC or discourage those of you loyal soldiers in S@H. Give it your best and continue to kick butt! If somebody gets a "it's really over next week" email post it and we'll all wait until there's a fire to sent out the fire department, until then I'm looking for star debris and gravitational anomalies (SP?).

 

[DaFinn]

WHY CAN'T IT JUST DIE!!!!!!??!??!?!?!?!? :mad;

 

[lane42]

Hey Rich

My post was really only directed to the Seti BOINC guys.

 

[RaySun2Be]

So when does the Seti@Home "classic" project come to an end?

Who the heck knows?

Rich, you raise some valid points, many of which the SETI Classic TeAm have no control over.

I know you and others have contributed much to SETI Classic. And we thank you for that.

And yes, there are other great DC projects that need help.

I do know this, It ain't over till it's over. And I've been working hard to keep SETI Classic TeAm ahead of BBR for a long, long time.

And for myself, it's the principle of the thing to keep ahead of BBR. Just can't give all that hard work we've done in the races up.

I for one do not want to take the chance that the SETI guys decide, since it took so long to close it down, that they will take one more STATS slice, readjust the standings due to clearing out cheaters and find out we drop to 6th because BBR kept producing and we didn't.

So I'm going to keep at it full steam ahead until the official shut-down, just in case. Once it is over, I know the other projects will benefit as SETI Classic members look for other DC projects to run.

And a hearty THANKS! to all who decide to pitch in and help!

 

[Hellburner]

So when does the Seti@Home "classic" project come to an end?

NEVAARRR!!! It's like the undead...

Seriously, it started as a two year project, got a one year extension because of all the interest, then with additional funding got transmogrified and extended into BOINC... Victim of its own popularity...

 

[networkman]

Lest anyone question my committment to the TeAm, I will make this promise:

If you can give me a date, set in stone, by the S@H project founders as to when the last result will be accepted(provided it's before say.. July 1st of this year(2005)), I will turn the remainder of my herd back to the S@H project. After that date, they get moved back - no more extensions, no more promises.

 

[Rattledagger]

Originally posted by: networkman
What I don't understand is why the Seti@Home project founders keep dragging this classic version on and on and on?

Well, the SETI@home/BOINC-servers haven't currently enough capasity to handle the load of "classic". Till they've moved the Master Science database from a E3500/6cpu with old, slow, nearly full non-raided hd's, to another E3500/8cpu with larger, faster and raided hd's, and configured the current server as data-server, they haven't the capasity.

This means, "classic" can crunch 1 day of recorded Arecibo-data per day, while SETI@home/BOINC will use atleast 2 days to crunch the same data.

If there's also a capasity-limit in the splitter-process so can at most split 1 day of recorded Arecibo-data per day, shutting down "classic" before SETI@home/BOINC is ready just means for every 2 days the backlog increases with 1 day...

Before got the new BOINC-db-server in February up and running, this taking so long among other things due to defective cpu, the capasity was so much lower so maybe needed 5 days to crunch one day of recorded data...


Anyway, let's say splitter-process is not a limiting factor, but there is another limit and this is bandwith. SETI@home's Cogent-link from campus is 100 Mbit, but to get to campus they must share the 100 Mbit SSL-link with the rest of SSL, meaning loses aorund 10 Mbit.
With every wu being 350 KB, this gives: 90 Mbit/s / (8 bit/byte) / 350 KB/wu * 86400 s/day = 2.777 M wu/day.

Yes.. One block is 1.7 seconds of telescope data. About 48 blocks are read in at a time (actually a bunch more are read in to "overlap" future workunits so there are no "edge effects" - we want to make sure if a Gaussian shows up it isn't split over two workunits and therefore scored lower or missed entirely). These blocks span the whole frequency spectrum, so we split the frequencies up into 256 equal parts, hence the 256 WU's per 48 blocks read.

And yes, following the math one tape yields about 176,000 WU's. Bear in mind these WU's are sent out redundantly.

So.. continuing along there are 86,400 seconds in a day. That's about 50,800 blocks. So we collect data to make about (50800/48*256) = about 270,000 WU's a day. At four times redundancy (max), that's 270,000*4 = 1,080,000 results a day that we need to handle. This is where our "million results a day" goal comes from.

- Matt (Lebofsky)

In other words, the internet-connection can handle roughly 2.5 days of recorded Arecibo-data per day, but due to BOINC client-downloads and seti-application-downloads and some results never returned and so on the effective capasity would probably be roughly 2 days of recorded Arecibo-data can be crunched per day.


This also means, as long as the capasity under BOINC is less than 500k "results"/day, shutting down "classic" N days before the capasity is there will take more than N days to catch-up. Not being sure at the launch 22.06.2004 how much hardware needed to add, nor if any serious bugs would surface when load increased, "cannibalizing" the "classic"-servers at the time could mean N days would need 10N days afterwards just to catch-up...
So, by this, not shutting down "classic" before the capasity really is available, makes sence.

 

[amdxborg]

Classic till the end!

 

[RaySun2Be]

Originally posted by: networkman
Lest anyone question my committment to the TeAm, I will make this promise:

If you can give me a date, set in stone, by the S@H project founders as to when the last result will be accepted(provided it's before say.. July 1st of this year(2005)), I will turn the remainder of my herd back to the S@H project. After that date, they get moved back - no more extensions, no more promises.

1. No one is questioning your commitment to the TeAm, it's always been deep. Who else drives around with a SETI license plate and has bought SETI WUs on EBay (twice)?

2. Based on your conditions, you might as well keep your herd where it's at, because by the time the SETI founders announce a solid date, I doubt moving any crunchers over will have much affect, as I suspect it will be a short time after the announcement. And at the rate it's going, I'd be very surprised if it was before July 1st. And none of us on the SETI Classic TeAm have any control over that, we're just trying to stay ahead of BBR until it is closed.

 

[Fardringle]

I was actually "done" with SETI in March and had moved everything over to Find-a-Drug and I'm enjoying that project quite a bit (I'd forgotten what it was like to move 1000+ ranks in one day ), but as of last night I have temporarily moved my Barton 2600@3200+ back to SETI classic. I really do want to focus on FaD now, but I would hate to have BBR pass us just because Berkeley keeps dragging out the classic project. Even if it is for legitimate reasons as Rattledagger mentioned, enough is enough!

Anyway, I'm currently at 34237 WUs and plan to leave my Barton running SETI until I hit 34,567 or the classic project ends - whichever comes first. I was going to make my goal 35K, but with just the Barton, that will take about 2 years. Of course, the way things have been going, SETI Classic might still be going then... :disgust:

I might move my wife's Athlon 2000+ back for a little while as well, but the other machines are probably going to stay right where they are. It's not a big difference, but I'm not willing to go out and move all of my remote machines back to SETI at this point. Unless, as NWM said, Berkeley gives us a "GUARANTEED" end date in the very near future. In which case I might move them all back for a short time to give an extra boost to keep us ahead of BBR. Whatever the results, I should be putting in about a dozen WU's per day with this machine. It's not a lot, but every little bit helps, and I REALLY don't want to let BBR catch us!

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Fardringle
"I did RC5, but I didn't flush." - Bill Clinton
"I invented distributed computing." - Al Gore
"I had a dream where every American would be free to run SETI!" - Martin Luther King Jr.

Interesting sig you have there. :thumbsup:

 

[Freewolf]

I have moved my machines back to Seti from other projects at least three times now wanting to help keep BBR beat back till the end of Seti1. If I remember right that has been going on for two plus years now.
Sorry but I've had enough Seti for a while and have no plans to run BOINC either. I think 257,000+ work units is enough.
My machines are staying on FaD, a projects with goals some of which might actually be reached in my lifetime.

 

[Fardringle]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Fardringle
"I did RC5, but I didn't flush." - Bill Clinton
"I invented distributed computing." - Al Gore
"I had a dream where every American would be free to run SETI!" - Martin Luther King Jr.

Interesting sig you have there. :thumbsup:

I made that sig probably 3-4 years ago when I first got involved with the SETI TeAm. I liked it so much I haven't bothered to change it. It's probably time to update the thing but the only moderately good one I can think of is:

"Our intelligence gathering provided significant evidence that Team Anandtech's regime did in fact possess Weapons of Mass Crunching." - G. W. Bush


I'm just not sure that one is up to par with the others, though, so I haven't added it in yet.

 

[Assimilator1]

NMW
No flaming from me mate

You make many valid points ,but I think maybe you've slightly misunderstood this thread?

I don't see any general call in this thread for other members to briefly ditch their projects (you'll notice that hasn't been done in many months) ,only an advertisement that a particular member has ,nothing wrong with that is there?

Btw I doubt you'll see another 'call to arms' thread for S@H1 until there is an end date...... at least not from me & a few other active members

So when does the Seti@Home "classic" project come to an end?

Dunno but it will be months & not (2) yrs this time
Wanta bet some WUs on it?

And I (we) do appriecate that you are a loyal TA member

superkdogg
lol ,I dont see LANMAN in here

Ray
We might find that a signifcant number of members will switch back when the end date is given ,& Of course I don't need to whack you with your own cane to remind you that every bit helps

 

[RaySun2Be]

Sorry but I've had enough Seti for a while and have no plans to run BOINC either. I think 257,000+ work units is enough.

I really understand where you and NWM and others are coming from, and I've ALWAYS been grateful for the extra help as needed.

No problems, this really wasn't a "call to arms" thread.

& I wish I had half of those 257K WUs.

I've just seen a 200K lead we had on BBR drop to under 100K today, and I'm just a bit concerned....

 

[MoFunk]

I think one of the biggest problems (well for me) is that we have had this "the end is near and BBR is either real close or ahead of us, let's get them" too many times. It has lost it's luster. I have done, and will do all I can to help the team stay in front, but man this thing is just dragging too much. Many people are ready to just move on.

 

[cakin]

Great points from all of you! I never thought I would make 1,000 WU's and now I am hoping it lasts and I can get 50K on my own.

I had one Boinc machine for 2 weeks, but moved it back. But the thing I will remember the most is "ALL of the GREAT people in AT."

It is nice to know there are people as obsessed as I am!

 

[cakin]

Darn, I just realized over 1000 posts....

 

[Smoke]

Originally posted by: cakin
Darn, I just realized over 1000 posts....

Yeah, you are a big neffer!
lol