Timing belt broke on my GTI

[alphatarget1]

lol german engineering.

 

[SuperSix]

I broke the timing set in my first car. 1969 Pontiac Grand Prix.

Of course that was one of the "hey lets see if we can use plastic timing gears and see if that will work car".

The belts are nice and quiet, quite frankly as long as you take care of it, its not really an issue.

This.

the GN has a nylon-geared timing chain from the factory, rumor is they used nylon for fears of timing chain noise setting off the knock sensor. After all these years the teeth break off, and rarely, one will jump. Replacing with a steel set doesn't increase knock sensor activity - so that's the preferred route.

Makes me wonder when the timing belt was last replaced on the wife's '96 Integra.. :hmm:

 

[Spicedaddy]

They're taking the head off this morning (that's being replaced for sure), and they're checking the pistons for damage...

Glad I spent the $1000 for CPO warranty.

 

[Capt Caveman]

My first car out of college was an Eagle Talon. At only 20k miles, the timing belt broke while I was coming off of the highway. It was under warranty but the damage done and after the repair, the car never drove the same. Got rid of that POS fairly shortly afterwards.

 

[_Rick_]

GM recommends checking oil, coolant, and windshield wiper fluid level at every fuel fill up.

Might not be a good idea, to get a hot engine off the highway, and plop open the coolant chamber while refueling...
Also, oil is unlikely to have settled during such a short interval.

So, I'm not really convinced that this kind of advice is all that helpful.

 

[halik]

They're taking the head off this morning (that's being replaced for sure), and they're checking the pistons for damage...

Glad I spent the $1000 for CPO warranty.

^ That's a steal. The previous owner of my 911 spent some $23K on warranty claims (including new engine), all with $100 deductible.

 

[exdeath]

lol german engineering.

German engineering, the antithesis of K.I.S.S.

 

[NutBucket]

Typical German I guess.

I seem to recall the 944 Turbo having a timing belt service interval of 30k miles or something like that. Gotta pay to play....and that's only a 944!

 

[SparkyJJO]

Interference engine FTL. I was planning on replacing mine around 80K miles but it was replaced at 40K miles under warranty due to a squeal. Just hit 60K miles so I've got some time before I have to worry about it again.

More like retarded timing belts FTL. Chains are so much more durable, most last the lifetime of the vehicle. If there is concern that chain noise may set off the knock sensors then that is one poorly designed knock sensing system.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Typical German I guess.

I seem to recall the 944 Turbo having a timing belt service interval of 30k miles or something like that. Gotta pay to play....and that's only a 944!

All 944s, not just the Turbo. 3 years or 30,000 miles, whichever comes first. And it's 12 hours book time on the job (for the Turbo, about half for the non-Turbo) because of all the crap in the way. The extra fun part though is that there are additional intervals for tension adjustment, one at 1,500 miles after belt replacement, and the other at 15,000 miles after belt replacement.

As far as "only" a 944 goes though, the Turbos were $40,000 cars in the mid 1980s. That's about $84,000 in today's money or, to put it in other terms, damn close to the equivalent cost of a 2013 BMW M5. No matter how much the used price has come down, you can't buy a car that played at that level in its day and expect it to be cheap to maintain. Too many people look at the cars and say, "Hey, $7,000 Porsche!" without thinking about the fact that it's still going to demand maintenance like an $85,000 exotic.

Oh well. If the kiddies keep destroying them, maybe mine will eventually be worth something as a collector car. (Hey, a man can dream.)

ZV

 

[Harrod]

This.


Makes me wonder when the timing belt was last replaced on the wife's '96 Integra.. :hmm:

They say to replace them at 90k intervals on the b18b1 and c series engines.

 

[ballmode]

105k for my WRX

 

[HarryLui]

Might not be a good idea, to get a hot engine off the highway, and plop open the coolant chamber while refueling...
Also, oil is unlikely to have settled during such a short interval.

So, I'm not really convinced that this kind of advice is all that helpful.

My post wasn't direct to the GTI with the broken timing belt. There is nothing OP could have done differently to prevent that.

I was refering to the broken GTO LS2 engine due to owner had an oil catch can installed, then owner drove the car for 1000 miles without checking oil level inside the catch can or oil dip stick. http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=33618518&postcount=15

GM recommends GTO owner to check the oil, coolant, and windsheild wiper fluid at every fuel up.

And if you actually read the owner manual I posted, http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=33621198&postcount=23

GM explain how to check coolant level just by looking at the reservoir's MAX and MIN line. There is no need to open the cap.

 

[AdamK47]

Hank wants to win on an Internet forum. He wins. I'll check the oil, coolent, and wiper fluid (Even though I no longer have washer nozzles. I'll just make sure it's still empty).

You just do the same. Every damn time you get gas. You hear me Hank! EVERY TIME!

I did check it before the trip. How many hear would even do that?

 

[SkullWalker]

Aah OHC engines and their timing chains/belt. Everlasting pain in the arse..

What happened with the good old OHV with pushrods and short unbreakable chains?

BTW have you ever heard of the 1.2liter 3-cylinder engine that is put into some VW Polos and their timing chain that was weaker than a belt made from a lady's panties?

 

[CurseTheSky]

Man, I'm not looking forward to replacing the timing sets on my Sport Trac's 4.0L SOHC. I'm starting to hear a slight "death rattle" between 2,300 and 3,000 or so, but getting to the timing cassette in the back of the engine requires either dropping the engine or getting REALLY creative with space limitations.

Maybe I can do another oil change and pray for the best?

 

[SuperSix]

They say to replace them at 90k intervals on the b18b1 and c series engines.

Thanks for that. It has 186k on it now. We have had it for ~2 years, bought it from a VERY anal uncle who took meticulous care of it.

Still - I HATE unknowns, and will probably replace it in a week or so. Water pump, tensioner pulley, as well.

 

[Spicedaddy]

Pistons were fine, they ordered a new head from VW. (yay, clean valves!) I'm getting the rest of the stuff done while they're in there. (tensioner/roller/waterpump)

 

[yottabit]

One of the first questions I ask when looking at a car is "does it have a timing chain"

Usually at a dealer this requires asking them to show me the manual for the service intervals

I don't know, I know timing chains can fail but usually maintenance on them revolves replacing some tensioner components after 200k mi or so (and that's only if they are made of plastic) I'd much rather take that over a timing belt

I really think timing belts are engineered just to make more money for dealerships. I think almost all new cars now use chains right?

 

[Zenmervolt]

I really think timing belts are engineered just to make more money for dealerships. I think almost all new cars now use chains right?

Belts are mechanically much simpler to engineer than a chain. They're lighter and they don't require an oil supply. They're also quieter and transmit less shock to the valvetrain. While many of these are less of an issue today, for a long time there were very compelling engineering reasons to favor a timing belt over a timing chain.

ZV

 

[hans007]

This was pretty common on that generation of the 2.0t. The newer one they switched to chains except in a few models ... the golf r and tt-rs oddly the two most expensive cars that still use a variant of your engine.

Good for you they covered it. But yeah sucks getting stranded

 

[soccerballtux]

GM recommends checking oil, coolant, and windshield wiper fluid level at every fuel fill up.
Page 6-8
http://www.gmpartshouse.com/downloads/manuals/gto/2005gto.pdf

Also, the point of install an oil catch can is to catch oil that would otherwise going into the intake. The oil level inside the catch can needs to be checked because the can needs to be empty once in a while.

Shit happens, I agree, which is another reason to check things over instead of assuming things will always work fine.

that's because GM cars are crap. Duh.

 

[Spicedaddy]

I picked up my car last night, runs like a new car. Cost me ~500$ for the rollers/tensioners/waterpump/spark plugs/oil change/coolant flush.

VW paid for the cylinder head, timing belt and other parts needed for the job (gaskets, studs, etc.). They also replaced the downpipe & cat since there was a leak, and a faulty radiator fan. I signed the work order: $5282...

 

[PottedMeat]

I picked up my car last night, runs like a new car. Cost me ~500$ for the rollers/tensioners/waterpump/spark plugs/oil change/coolant flush.

VW paid for the cylinder head, timing belt and other parts needed for the job (gaskets, studs, etc.). They also replaced the downpipe & cat since there was a leak, and a faulty radiator fan. I signed the work order: $5282...

heh so that's the post november dealer price?

 

[Arkaign]

All 944s, not just the Turbo. 3 years or 30,000 miles, whichever comes first. And it's 12 hours book time on the job (for the Turbo, about half for the non-Turbo) because of all the crap in the way. The extra fun part though is that there are additional intervals for tension adjustment, one at 1,500 miles after belt replacement, and the other at 15,000 miles after belt replacement.

As far as "only" a 944 goes though, the Turbos were $40,000 cars in the mid 1980s. That's about $84,000 in today's money or, to put it in other terms, damn close to the equivalent cost of a 2013 BMW M5. No matter how much the used price has come down, you can't buy a car that played at that level in its day and expect it to be cheap to maintain. Too many people look at the cars and say, "Hey, $7,000 Porsche!" without thinking about the fact that it's still going to demand maintenance like an $85,000 exotic.

Oh well. If the kiddies keep destroying them, maybe mine will eventually be worth something as a collector car. (Hey, a man can dream.)

ZV

Illuminating as always, ZV.

I have a question related to the 924/944. I know that some of the purists might take offense, but how feasible is it to do a motor swap in one of those? I would think that something like a F20C + Turbo or MZR 2.3 Turbo would be a great match to the car, and be tremendously less maintance intensive. I say this because I once worked with a guy who did an LS2 + tranny swap into a late 80s Lotus Esprit, and literally everything about it worked perfectly, and it drove incredibly. I also know someone with a V8 Volvo 240 Wagon