Tire PSI question

[fleabag]

oh and :http://cardealerforums.com/alt...olice-perspective.html


read the article that is quoted

 

[PhoKingGuy]

And everyone replying to him is telling him hes an idiot, like we are to you. I think I see the parallels now

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: fleabag
oh and :http://cardealerforums.com/alt...olice-perspective.html


read the article that is quoted

From Michelin's own site:

If you don?t know the proper inflation air pressure for your tires, what do you do? Easy. Check at one of the following places on your vehicle:
* In the vehicle owners manual.
* On the vehicle?s door jamb. (Often, a vehicle information placard is located on the door jamb along with the recommended tire inflation pressure.)
* Inside the fuel hatch filler flap. (In some vehicles.)
* The glove compartment door. (In some vehicles.)
o But NOT on the tire. The inflation pressure shown on the tire sidewall is only the maximum tire inflation pressure. In most situations, the vehicle manufacturers recommended tire inflation pressure is shown on the vehicle placard. However, on some older vehicles, the recommended pressure listed by your vehicle?s manufacturer may be shown as two numbers: One for city speed driving and normal load and one for highway speeds and/or maximum capacity vehicle load. Be sure to inflate your tires to the recommended inflation pressure for each type of driving situation.

Michelin's tire pressure recommendations

From tiresafety.com, which is run by bridgestone and firestone

Recommended Inflation Pressure Many people ask "what air pressures do you (meaning tire companies) recommend for cars under normal conditions?" The answer is "we recommend what the vehicle manufacturer recommends."

Tire safety


The tire companies themselves even say that the number on the sidewall isn't what you should be running your car at.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: fleabag
oh and :http://cardealerforums.com/alt...olice-perspective.html


read the article that is quoted

From Michelin's own site:

If you don?t know the proper inflation air pressure for your tires, what do you do? Easy. Check at one of the following places on your vehicle:
* In the vehicle owners manual.
* On the vehicle?s door jamb. (Often, a vehicle information placard is located on the door jamb along with the recommended tire inflation pressure.)
* Inside the fuel hatch filler flap. (In some vehicles.)
* The glove compartment door. (In some vehicles.)
o But NOT on the tire. The inflation pressure shown on the tire sidewall is only the maximum tire inflation pressure. In most situations, the vehicle manufacturers recommended tire inflation pressure is shown on the vehicle placard. However, on some older vehicles, the recommended pressure listed by your vehicle?s manufacturer may be shown as two numbers: One for city speed driving and normal load and one for highway speeds and/or maximum capacity vehicle load. Be sure to inflate your tires to the recommended inflation pressure for each type of driving situation.

Michelin's tire pressure recommendations

From tiresafety.com, which is run by bridgestone and firestone

Recommended Inflation Pressure Many people ask "what air pressures do you (meaning tire companies) recommend for cars under normal conditions?" The answer is "we recommend what the vehicle manufacturer recommends."

Tire safety


The tire companies themselves even say that the number on the sidewall isn't what you should be running your car at.

Bah, those are just recommendations...arbitrarily low numbers approved by lawyers. Everyone knows you should double what's on the sidewall for best everything...your tires will even blow you if you do this!

 

[fleabag]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: fleabag
oh and :http://cardealerforums.com/alt...olice-perspective.html


read the article that is quoted

From Michelin's own site:

If you don?t know the proper inflation air pressure for your tires, what do you do? Easy. Check at one of the following places on your vehicle:
* In the vehicle owners manual.
* On the vehicle?s door jamb. (Often, a vehicle information placard is located on the door jamb along with the recommended tire inflation pressure.)
* Inside the fuel hatch filler flap. (In some vehicles.)
* The glove compartment door. (In some vehicles.)
o But NOT on the tire. The inflation pressure shown on the tire sidewall is only the maximum tire inflation pressure. In most situations, the vehicle manufacturers recommended tire inflation pressure is shown on the vehicle placard. However, on some older vehicles, the recommended pressure listed by your vehicle?s manufacturer may be shown as two numbers: One for city speed driving and normal load and one for highway speeds and/or maximum capacity vehicle load. Be sure to inflate your tires to the recommended inflation pressure for each type of driving situation.

Michelin's tire pressure recommendations

From tiresafety.com, which is run by bridgestone and firestone

Recommended Inflation Pressure Many people ask "what air pressures do you (meaning tire companies) recommend for cars under normal conditions?" The answer is "we recommend what the vehicle manufacturer recommends."

Tire safety


The tire companies themselves even say that the number on the sidewall isn't what you should be running your car at.

Bah, those are just recommendations...arbitrarily low numbers approved by lawyers. Everyone knows you should double what's on the sidewall for best everything...your tires will even blow you if you do this!

Michelin doesn't want to be held accountable when people crash their cars because the handling characteristics changed from what they were used to. You wouldn't necessarily want to make a RWD car any more prone to oversteer now would you? It's much easier to say "ask this guy" than to give out a laundry list of times when you can follow the sidewall. The problem I have with YOU is that you scare people into thinking that if they don't follow the door recommendations, the tire will explode and I'm saying you can inflate your tires to the sidewall and it'll be fine. There are obviously caveats to each tire pressure, pros and cons, risks and benefits, etc. etc. This was discussed ad-nauseum in the other thread and instead of acknowledging them, you chose to make a straw man argument by ignoring my posts and just continuing to point to the various companies and then stating that I'm saying they're idiots when that's not even what the argument is about.

I'll say it once and say it again, inflating your tires to sidewall isn't necessarily going to do anything, and it most CERTAINLY WILL NOT CAUSE THEM TO BURST unless they're dry rotted out which in that case you shouldn't be driving on them in the first place. There are pros to driving with the tires below manufacturer recommended levels, pros at manufacturer levels, and pros above the manufacturer recommended levels, and then there are also cons with all those levels. The pros and cons are pretty close to equal on all three levels though you need to admit that driving on tires that are below manufacturer recommendations is far less safe than over.

Oh and one more thing:
Ford exploder, 26psi recommendation, tire blowouts and rollovers.

 

[Bignate603]

Definition of a straw man argument: (courtesy of Wikipedia)

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.

Your argument is that you should run tire pressures significantly above those the manufacturers recommend. We continually point out that the companies with a vested interest in the performance of their product and the safety of people that use their product do not recommend what you say.

You point out reasons based around fuel economy. We point out that the companies involved have studied tire performance for many different characteristics and do not recommend what you say.

I fail to see how this is a straw man argument.

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: fleabag
oh and :http://cardealerforums.com/alt...olice-perspective.html


read the article that is quoted

From Michelin's own site:

If you don?t know the proper inflation air pressure for your tires, what do you do? Easy. Check at one of the following places on your vehicle:
* In the vehicle owners manual.
* On the vehicle?s door jamb. (Often, a vehicle information placard is located on the door jamb along with the recommended tire inflation pressure.)
* Inside the fuel hatch filler flap. (In some vehicles.)
* The glove compartment door. (In some vehicles.)
o But NOT on the tire. The inflation pressure shown on the tire sidewall is only the maximum tire inflation pressure. In most situations, the vehicle manufacturers recommended tire inflation pressure is shown on the vehicle placard. However, on some older vehicles, the recommended pressure listed by your vehicle?s manufacturer may be shown as two numbers: One for city speed driving and normal load and one for highway speeds and/or maximum capacity vehicle load. Be sure to inflate your tires to the recommended inflation pressure for each type of driving situation.

Michelin's tire pressure recommendations

From tiresafety.com, which is run by bridgestone and firestone

Recommended Inflation Pressure Many people ask "what air pressures do you (meaning tire companies) recommend for cars under normal conditions?" The answer is "we recommend what the vehicle manufacturer recommends."

Tire safety


The tire companies themselves even say that the number on the sidewall isn't what you should be running your car at.

So what do you go by when you replace your tires with something different than what came with the car originally?

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: fleabag
oh and :http://cardealerforums.com/alt...olice-perspective.html


read the article that is quoted

From Michelin's own site:

If you don?t know the proper inflation air pressure for your tires, what do you do? Easy. Check at one of the following places on your vehicle:
* In the vehicle owners manual.
* On the vehicle?s door jamb. (Often, a vehicle information placard is located on the door jamb along with the recommended tire inflation pressure.)
* Inside the fuel hatch filler flap. (In some vehicles.)
* The glove compartment door. (In some vehicles.)
o But NOT on the tire. The inflation pressure shown on the tire sidewall is only the maximum tire inflation pressure. In most situations, the vehicle manufacturers recommended tire inflation pressure is shown on the vehicle placard. However, on some older vehicles, the recommended pressure listed by your vehicle?s manufacturer may be shown as two numbers: One for city speed driving and normal load and one for highway speeds and/or maximum capacity vehicle load. Be sure to inflate your tires to the recommended inflation pressure for each type of driving situation.

Michelin's tire pressure recommendations

From tiresafety.com, which is run by bridgestone and firestone

Recommended Inflation Pressure Many people ask "what air pressures do you (meaning tire companies) recommend for cars under normal conditions?" The answer is "we recommend what the vehicle manufacturer recommends."

Tire safety


The tire companies themselves even say that the number on the sidewall isn't what you should be running your car at.

So what do you go by when you replace your tires with something different than what came with the car originally?

If you make a change to tires that aren't comparable to the OEM tires on your car you should probably go through the chalk test as mentioned before in this thread.

 

[fleabag]

Originally posted by: Bignate603
Definition of a straw man argument: (courtesy of Wikipedia)

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.

Your argument is that you should run tire pressures significantly above those the manufacturers recommend. We continually point out that the companies with a vested interest in the performance of their product and the safety of people that use their product do not recommend what you say.

You point out reasons based around fuel economy. We point out that the companies involved have studied tire performance for many different characteristics and do not recommend what you say.

I fail to see how this is a straw man argument.

You guys continually say that I'm saying that these companies have "stupid" engineers and that I think I know more about the topic than the engineers, THAT's the strawman argument.

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: fleabag
oh and :http://cardealerforums.com/alt...olice-perspective.html


read the article that is quoted

From Michelin's own site:

If you don?t know the proper inflation air pressure for your tires, what do you do? Easy. Check at one of the following places on your vehicle:
* In the vehicle owners manual.
* On the vehicle?s door jamb. (Often, a vehicle information placard is located on the door jamb along with the recommended tire inflation pressure.)
* Inside the fuel hatch filler flap. (In some vehicles.)
* The glove compartment door. (In some vehicles.)
o But NOT on the tire. The inflation pressure shown on the tire sidewall is only the maximum tire inflation pressure. In most situations, the vehicle manufacturers recommended tire inflation pressure is shown on the vehicle placard. However, on some older vehicles, the recommended pressure listed by your vehicle?s manufacturer may be shown as two numbers: One for city speed driving and normal load and one for highway speeds and/or maximum capacity vehicle load. Be sure to inflate your tires to the recommended inflation pressure for each type of driving situation.

Michelin's tire pressure recommendations

From tiresafety.com, which is run by bridgestone and firestone

Recommended Inflation Pressure Many people ask "what air pressures do you (meaning tire companies) recommend for cars under normal conditions?" The answer is "we recommend what the vehicle manufacturer recommends."

Tire safety


The tire companies themselves even say that the number on the sidewall isn't what you should be running your car at.

So what do you go by when you replace your tires with something different than what came with the car originally?

If you make a change to tires that aren't comparable to the OEM tires on your car you should probably go through the chalk test as mentioned before in this thread.

yeah and if you perform the chalk test on your oem configuration of tires and wheels and you find that the outside wears more than the inside, THEN WHAT?

I've seen on far too many vehicles that are inflated to the door jam have their tires wear down on the OUTSIDE and not down the middle. So, if the driver's tires are wearing down the sides, and all guides suggest that when they wear down the sides that they're underinflated yet the tires are inflated to the door jam PSI, what do you expect these people to do? I keep my tires at sidewall because I've found they wear EVENLY instead of on the sides or down the middle.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: fleabag
I've seen on far too many vehicles that are inflated to the door jam have their tires wear down on the OUTSIDE and not down the middle. So, if the driver's tires are wearing down the sides, and all guides suggest that when they wear down the sides that they're underinflated yet the tires are inflated to the door jam PSI, what do you expect these people to do? I keep my tires at sidewall because I've found they wear EVENLY instead of on the sides or down the middle.

My old car, my current car, my dad's car, my mom's car, my brothers' cars, my sister-in-law's car, etc etc etc all are inflated to the door sticker (except for my brother's truck which is using a non-standard tire size). All have evenly worn tires. My dad got 70+K miles out of "60K" tires.

For every anecdote you can come up with about door jam inflation being not enough and sidewall being fine, I or anyone else can come up with many more of sidewall being too much and door jam being fine.

Thanks for playing.

 

[fleabag]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: fleabag
I've seen on far too many vehicles that are inflated to the door jam have their tires wear down on the OUTSIDE and not down the middle. So, if the driver's tires are wearing down the sides, and all guides suggest that when they wear down the sides that they're underinflated yet the tires are inflated to the door jam PSI, what do you expect these people to do? I keep my tires at sidewall because I've found they wear EVENLY instead of on the sides or down the middle.

My old car, my current car, my dad's car, my mom's car, my brothers' cars, my sister-in-law's car, etc etc etc all are inflated to the door sticker (except for my brother's truck which is using a non-standard tire size). All have evenly worn tires. My dad got 70+K miles out of "60K" tires.

For every anecdote you can come up with about door jam inflation being not enough and sidewall being fine, I or anyone else can come up with many more of sidewall being too much and door jam being fine.

Thanks for playing.

What do you mean thanks for playing? What you think your anecdotes are somehow going to cancel out mine or some shit? What the fuck kind of logic is that? This is exactly how you counter this argument: "My Tundra has this piston slap issue and so do a bunch of other people, those 4.7L engines are POS and Toyota won't admit to it!" Then you go and say, "Yeah well I have a Tundra and I've driven 100K miles on it and I don't have any piston slap, my mom's tundra, my brother's tundra and my sister-in-law's Tundra don't have piston slap. For every anecdote you can come up with about piston slap, I can come up with many more of the Tundras not having piston slap.

Thanks for playing.

In a sense, you're a douchebag.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: fleabag

Originally posted by: Bignate603
Definition of a straw man argument: (courtesy of Wikipedia)

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.

Your argument is that you should run tire pressures significantly above those the manufacturers recommend. We continually point out that the companies with a vested interest in the performance of their product and the safety of people that use their product do not recommend what you say.

You point out reasons based around fuel economy. We point out that the companies involved have studied tire performance for many different characteristics and do not recommend what you say.

I fail to see how this is a straw man argument.

You guys continually say that I'm saying that these companies have "stupid" engineers and that I think I know more about the topic than the engineers, THAT's the strawman argument.

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: fleabag
oh and :http://cardealerforums.com/alt...olice-perspective.html


read the article that is quoted

From Michelin's own site:

If you don?t know the proper inflation air pressure for your tires, what do you do? Easy. Check at one of the following places on your vehicle:
* In the vehicle owners manual.
* On the vehicle?s door jamb. (Often, a vehicle information placard is located on the door jamb along with the recommended tire inflation pressure.)
* Inside the fuel hatch filler flap. (In some vehicles.)
* The glove compartment door. (In some vehicles.)
o But NOT on the tire. The inflation pressure shown on the tire sidewall is only the maximum tire inflation pressure. In most situations, the vehicle manufacturers recommended tire inflation pressure is shown on the vehicle placard. However, on some older vehicles, the recommended pressure listed by your vehicle?s manufacturer may be shown as two numbers: One for city speed driving and normal load and one for highway speeds and/or maximum capacity vehicle load. Be sure to inflate your tires to the recommended inflation pressure for each type of driving situation.

Michelin's tire pressure recommendations

From tiresafety.com, which is run by bridgestone and firestone

Recommended Inflation Pressure Many people ask "what air pressures do you (meaning tire companies) recommend for cars under normal conditions?" The answer is "we recommend what the vehicle manufacturer recommends."

Tire safety


The tire companies themselves even say that the number on the sidewall isn't what you should be running your car at.

So what do you go by when you replace your tires with something different than what came with the car originally?

If you make a change to tires that aren't comparable to the OEM tires on your car you should probably go through the chalk test as mentioned before in this thread.

yeah and if you perform the chalk test on your oem configuration of tires and wheels and you find that the outside wears more than the inside, THEN WHAT?

I've seen on far too many vehicles that are inflated to the door jam have their tires wear down on the OUTSIDE and not down the middle. So, if the driver's tires are wearing down the sides, and all guides suggest that when they wear down the sides that they're underinflated yet the tires are inflated to the door jam PSI, what do you expect these people to do? I keep my tires at sidewall because I've found they wear EVENLY instead of on the sides or down the middle.

Stop posting your crap as facts, NOW!! :|

 

[ChaosDivine]

http://www.zazzle.com/never_ar...irt-235041959262199695

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: ChaosDivine
http://www.zazzle.com/never_ar...irt-235041959262199695

You can never beat idiots because they aren't capable of understanding when they've been beaten.

 

[fleabag]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: fleabag

Originally posted by: Bignate603
Definition of a straw man argument: (courtesy of Wikipedia)

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.

Your argument is that you should run tire pressures significantly above those the manufacturers recommend. We continually point out that the companies with a vested interest in the performance of their product and the safety of people that use their product do not recommend what you say.

You point out reasons based around fuel economy. We point out that the companies involved have studied tire performance for many different characteristics and do not recommend what you say.

I fail to see how this is a straw man argument.

You guys continually say that I'm saying that these companies have "stupid" engineers and that I think I know more about the topic than the engineers, THAT's the strawman argument.

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: fleabag
oh and :http://cardealerforums.com/alt...olice-perspective.html


read the article that is quoted

From Michelin's own site:

If you don?t know the proper inflation air pressure for your tires, what do you do? Easy. Check at one of the following places on your vehicle:
* In the vehicle owners manual.
* On the vehicle?s door jamb. (Often, a vehicle information placard is located on the door jamb along with the recommended tire inflation pressure.)
* Inside the fuel hatch filler flap. (In some vehicles.)
* The glove compartment door. (In some vehicles.)
o But NOT on the tire. The inflation pressure shown on the tire sidewall is only the maximum tire inflation pressure. In most situations, the vehicle manufacturers recommended tire inflation pressure is shown on the vehicle placard. However, on some older vehicles, the recommended pressure listed by your vehicle?s manufacturer may be shown as two numbers: One for city speed driving and normal load and one for highway speeds and/or maximum capacity vehicle load. Be sure to inflate your tires to the recommended inflation pressure for each type of driving situation.

Michelin's tire pressure recommendations

From tiresafety.com, which is run by bridgestone and firestone

Recommended Inflation Pressure Many people ask "what air pressures do you (meaning tire companies) recommend for cars under normal conditions?" The answer is "we recommend what the vehicle manufacturer recommends."

Tire safety


The tire companies themselves even say that the number on the sidewall isn't what you should be running your car at.

So what do you go by when you replace your tires with something different than what came with the car originally?

If you make a change to tires that aren't comparable to the OEM tires on your car you should probably go through the chalk test as mentioned before in this thread.

yeah and if you perform the chalk test on your oem configuration of tires and wheels and you find that the outside wears more than the inside, THEN WHAT?

I've seen on far too many vehicles that are inflated to the door jam have their tires wear down on the OUTSIDE and not down the middle. So, if the driver's tires are wearing down the sides, and all guides suggest that when they wear down the sides that they're underinflated yet the tires are inflated to the door jam PSI, what do you expect these people to do? I keep my tires at sidewall because I've found they wear EVENLY instead of on the sides or down the middle.

Stop posting your crap as facts, NOW!! :|

What? It IS a fact that I keep my tires at sidewall... Why would you bold that statement and then say "stop posting your crap as facts" when it is a fact? You're retarded.

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: ChaosDivine
http://www.zazzle.com/never_ar...irt-235041959262199695

You can never beat idiots because they aren't capable of understanding when they've been beaten.

I'm an idiot because you disagree with me? You're the idiot for "sticking with manufacturer suggestions". I bet you keep your computer at stock speeds and stock voltages, don't you? I bet you also drive a Camry and take it to the dealership for service.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: ChaosDivine
http://www.zazzle.com/never_ar...irt-235041959262199695

You can never beat idiots because they aren't capable of understanding when they've been beaten.

I'm an idiot because you disagree with me? You're the idiot for "sticking with manufacturer suggestions". I bet you keep your computer at stock speeds and stock voltages, don't you? I bet you also drive a Camry and take it to the dealership for service.

For someone accusing others of using a straw man argument you're quite willing to use it. I'll play your game though if you'll play too.

Yup, my laptop is still at stock speeds. I used to overclock my computers and work hard to get increases in speed. Now that I'm not a teenager and have a job I just go out and buy the hardware that I want. I'm not a gamer, I don't do anything that power intensive. I've got no need to try and get a few percent boost in my computer's performance. I don't have any reason to care about it. Every year or two when I decide I want something faster I just pay the extra $100 to get the laptop I want rather than paying less and spending hours trying to get the thing to do what I want. Some people enjoy spending time overclocking and trying to get a bit more power out of their computer, I don't. Why would I do something I don't enjoy when I can easily get exactly what I want?

And yes, I do have a Camry. I've mentioned it here before. I've also got 2 jeeps (one is a '71 CJ-5, the other is a '97 cherokee) and a chevy minivan. I bought them all used well after the warranty has expired. I do most of the small stuff on my vehicles. When there's something I don't feel like doing or don't have the tools for I have a local independent mechanic. The only time I dealt with the dealers for any of them is when the Camry's fuse box decided to commit suicide. A solder joint up inside it went bad and the fuse box was a dealer only part. I got the part from the dealer and had my mechanic install it.

So I just answered your accusations that were completely irrelevant to tire pressure, so why don't you answer one for us.

How old are you?

 

[fleabag]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: ChaosDivine
http://www.zazzle.com/never_ar...irt-235041959262199695

You can never beat idiots because they aren't capable of understanding when they've been beaten.

I'm an idiot because you disagree with me? You're the idiot for "sticking with manufacturer suggestions". I bet you keep your computer at stock speeds and stock voltages, don't you? I bet you also drive a Camry and take it to the dealership for service.

For someone accusing others of using a straw man argument you're quite willing to use it. I'll play your game though if you'll play too.

Yup, my laptop is still at stock speeds. I used to overclock my computers and work hard to get increases in speed. Now that I'm not a teenager and have a job I just go out and buy the hardware that I want. I'm not a gamer, I don't do anything that power intensive. I've got no need to try and get a few percent boost in my computer's performance. I don't have any reason to care about it. Every year or two when I decide I want something faster I just pay the extra $100 to get the laptop I want rather than paying less and spending hours trying to get the thing to do what I want. Some people enjoy spending time overclocking and trying to get a bit more power out of their computer, I don't. Why would I do something I don't enjoy when I can easily get exactly what I want?

And yes, I do have a Camry. I've mentioned it here before. I've also got 2 jeeps (one is a '71 CJ-5, the other is a '97 cherokee) and a chevy minivan. I bought them all used well after the warranty has expired. I do most of the small stuff on my vehicles. When there's something I don't feel like doing or don't have the tools for I have a local independent mechanic. The only time I dealt with the dealers for any of them is when the Camry's fuse box decided to commit suicide. A solder joint up inside it went bad and the fuse box was a dealer only part. I got the part from the dealer and had my mechanic install it.

So I just answered your accusations that were completely irrelevant to tire pressure, so why don't you answer one for us.

How old are you?

I'm glad you proved my point. It's not a TOTAL insult, it just mostly says the type of person you are, and going by what you said in your post, you sound like you're burnt out tweaking things for more performance, taking advantage of small increases here and there. I'm not burnt out despite doing this sort of thing for a decade now because I'm not "hard core", I like to do this over a longer period of time which is why my "fastest" computer was made in 2004 yet is still overclocked.

My points aren't irrelevant in the sense that I'm one of those who are willing to deal with the issues of running higher tire pressures. I'm one of those people who are saying that if you want a little increase in MPG without changing vehicles you can increase tire pressure and do "hypermiling" techniques which sometimes yield very measurable increases. To go back to the computer analogy, are you telling me overclocking my Pentium 4 2.8ghz to 3.6ghz isn't worth it? With cars, are you saying the fuel economy increase from an average of 22mpg to a range of 26mpg-30mpg isn't worth it? It is literally the same type of increases in both cases and they're caused by those tips that were mentioned in that other thread. I got a 28.5% increase in performance by overclocking my CPU and I got a 27.2% increase in fuel economy by following various techniques and adjustments that hypermilers do to their car.

So the real question is, are you willing to go the extra effort to eek out more fuel economy from your car without having to buy a new car (or in the case with a computer, upgrading it) or are you one of those that would rather just buy a new car (buy a new computer)? You've made it clear you used to be the former but are now the latter and that's fine, but that doesn't mean you should be shitting on others who suggest to "overclock" their car just because you now somehow can't bare to not listen to your OEM. (Toyota/Dell/Intel anyone?)

 

[brblx]

Originally posted by: fleabag
I'm an idiot because you disagree with me? You're the idiot for "sticking with manufacturer suggestions". I bet you keep your computer at stock speeds and stock voltages, don't you? I bet you also drive a Camry and take it to the dealership for service.

people who stick with the manufacturer's recommendations and get regular service at a dealer (or knowledgeable independent) usually have the cars that are in the best shape.

that said, you can do whatever the hell you want. as long as you're not one of those guys that won't stop putting air in his tire at the gas station until he gets his WHOLE quarter's worth (i've seen 60-70psi in car tires) and you use a little common sense, you'll be fine.

44psi (the sidewall spec on most car tires) isn't going to cause enormous handling issues over a more normal 30-35psi. ride quality isn't even much different.

i'd recommend 40 over 20 any day of the week, so i typically air up tires into the 35-40psi region, since people don't check them very often. the biggest problem with the ford's that recommended 26psi is that if someone didn't check the pressure for three or four months, they could easily be below 20psi, which is getting a little sketchy for high speed driving. better to have a little buffer (and it keeps those damn tire lights from coming on ;P).

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: fleabag

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: ChaosDivine
http://www.zazzle.com/never_ar...irt-235041959262199695

You can never beat idiots because they aren't capable of understanding when they've been beaten.

I'm an idiot because you disagree with me? You're the idiot for "sticking with manufacturer suggestions". I bet you keep your computer at stock speeds and stock voltages, don't you? I bet you also drive a Camry and take it to the dealership for service.

For someone accusing others of using a straw man argument you're quite willing to use it. I'll play your game though if you'll play too.

Yup, my laptop is still at stock speeds. I used to overclock my computers and work hard to get increases in speed. Now that I'm not a teenager and have a job I just go out and buy the hardware that I want. I'm not a gamer, I don't do anything that power intensive. I've got no need to try and get a few percent boost in my computer's performance. I don't have any reason to care about it. Every year or two when I decide I want something faster I just pay the extra $100 to get the laptop I want rather than paying less and spending hours trying to get the thing to do what I want. Some people enjoy spending time overclocking and trying to get a bit more power out of their computer, I don't. Why would I do something I don't enjoy when I can easily get exactly what I want?

And yes, I do have a Camry. I've mentioned it here before. I've also got 2 jeeps (one is a '71 CJ-5, the other is a '97 cherokee) and a chevy minivan. I bought them all used well after the warranty has expired. I do most of the small stuff on my vehicles. When there's something I don't feel like doing or don't have the tools for I have a local independent mechanic. The only time I dealt with the dealers for any of them is when the Camry's fuse box decided to commit suicide. A solder joint up inside it went bad and the fuse box was a dealer only part. I got the part from the dealer and had my mechanic install it.

So I just answered your accusations that were completely irrelevant to tire pressure, so why don't you answer one for us.

How old are you?

I'm glad you proved my point. It's not a TOTAL insult, it just mostly says the type of person you are, and going by what you said in your post, you sound like you're burnt out tweaking things for more performance, taking advantage of small increases here and there. I'm not burnt out despite doing this sort of thing for a decade now because I'm not "hard core", I like to do this over a longer period of time which is why my "fastest" computer was made in 2004 yet is still overclocked.

My points aren't irrelevant in the sense that I'm one of those who are willing to deal with the issues of running higher tire pressures. I'm one of those people who are saying that if you want a little increase in MPG without changing vehicles you can increase tire pressure and do "hypermiling" techniques which sometimes yield very measurable increases. To go back to the computer analogy, are you telling me overclocking my Pentium 4 2.8ghz to 3.6ghz isn't worth it? With cars, are you saying the fuel economy increase from an average of 22mpg to a range of 26mpg-30mpg isn't worth it? It is literally the same type of increases in both cases and they're caused by those tips that were mentioned in that other thread. I got a 28.5% increase in performance by overclocking my CPU and I got a 27.2% increase in fuel economy by following various techniques and adjustments that hypermilers do to their car.

So the real question is, are you willing to go the extra effort to eek out more fuel economy from your car without having to buy a new car (or in the case with a computer, upgrading it) or are you one of those that would rather just buy a new car (buy a new computer)? You've made it clear you used to be the former but are now the latter and that's fine, but that doesn't mean you should be shitting on others who suggest to "overclock" their car just because you now somehow can't bare to not listen to your OEM. (Toyota/Dell/Intel anyone?)

So it's only a minor insult? :roll:

I'm done arguing. I work with plenty of engineers that used to work in the automotive industry. I do analysis on turbine engines so most of the ones I work with originally worked in engines or testing, but I'd think that the guys in suspension and tires were just as meticulous about performance and safety. I'd put my car and my life in the hands of them long before I'd ever dream of listening to a random person on the internet, especially after the caliber of other questions and comments you frequently post.

If you ever get a chance I highly recommend you sit down with an automotive engineer to discuss your ideas. It would be best if you find one with a good sense of humor, he'll need it.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: fleabag

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: ChaosDivine
http://www.zazzle.com/never_ar...irt-235041959262199695

You can never beat idiots because they aren't capable of understanding when they've been beaten.

I'm an idiot because you disagree with me? You're the idiot for "sticking with manufacturer suggestions". I bet you keep your computer at stock speeds and stock voltages, don't you? I bet you also drive a Camry and take it to the dealership for service.

For someone accusing others of using a straw man argument you're quite willing to use it. I'll play your game though if you'll play too.

Yup, my laptop is still at stock speeds. I used to overclock my computers and work hard to get increases in speed. Now that I'm not a teenager and have a job I just go out and buy the hardware that I want. I'm not a gamer, I don't do anything that power intensive. I've got no need to try and get a few percent boost in my computer's performance. I don't have any reason to care about it. Every year or two when I decide I want something faster I just pay the extra $100 to get the laptop I want rather than paying less and spending hours trying to get the thing to do what I want. Some people enjoy spending time overclocking and trying to get a bit more power out of their computer, I don't. Why would I do something I don't enjoy when I can easily get exactly what I want?

And yes, I do have a Camry. I've mentioned it here before. I've also got 2 jeeps (one is a '71 CJ-5, the other is a '97 cherokee) and a chevy minivan. I bought them all used well after the warranty has expired. I do most of the small stuff on my vehicles. When there's something I don't feel like doing or don't have the tools for I have a local independent mechanic. The only time I dealt with the dealers for any of them is when the Camry's fuse box decided to commit suicide. A solder joint up inside it went bad and the fuse box was a dealer only part. I got the part from the dealer and had my mechanic install it.

So I just answered your accusations that were completely irrelevant to tire pressure, so why don't you answer one for us.

How old are you?

I'm glad you proved my point. It's not a TOTAL insult, it just mostly says the type of person you are, and going by what you said in your post, you sound like you're burnt out tweaking things for more performance, taking advantage of small increases here and there. I'm not burnt out despite doing this sort of thing for a decade now because I'm not "hard core", I like to do this over a longer period of time which is why my "fastest" computer was made in 2004 yet is still overclocked.

My points aren't irrelevant in the sense that I'm one of those who are willing to deal with the issues of running higher tire pressures. I'm one of those people who are saying that if you want a little increase in MPG without changing vehicles you can increase tire pressure and do "hypermiling" techniques which sometimes yield very measurable increases. To go back to the computer analogy, are you telling me overclocking my Pentium 4 2.8ghz to 3.6ghz isn't worth it? With cars, are you saying the fuel economy increase from an average of 22mpg to a range of 26mpg-30mpg isn't worth it? It is literally the same type of increases in both cases and they're caused by those tips that were mentioned in that other thread. I got a 28.5% increase in performance by overclocking my CPU and I got a 27.2% increase in fuel economy by following various techniques and adjustments that hypermilers do to their car.

So the real question is, are you willing to go the extra effort to eek out more fuel economy from your car without having to buy a new car (or in the case with a computer, upgrading it) or are you one of those that would rather just buy a new car (buy a new computer)? You've made it clear you used to be the former but are now the latter and that's fine, but that doesn't mean you should be shitting on others who suggest to "overclock" their car just because you now somehow can't bare to not listen to your OEM. (Toyota/Dell/Intel anyone?)

So it's only a minor insult? :roll:

I'm done arguing. I work with plenty of engineers that used to work in the automotive industry. I do analysis on turbine engines so most of the ones I work with originally worked in engines or testing, but I'd think that the guys in suspension and tires were just as meticulous about performance and safety. I'd put my car and my life in the hands of them long before I'd ever dream of listening to a random person on the internet, especially after the caliber of other questions and comments you frequently post.

If you ever get a chance I highly recommend you sit down with an automotive engineer to discuss your ideas. It would be best if you find one with a good sense of humor, he'll need it.

My roommate is an engineering intern for Hyundai America, I showed him most of these posts. He got such a laugh out of them he printed them off and took them to work one day, apparently now they're hanging in their break room as something for them to laugh at.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: PhoKingGuy
My roommate is an engineering intern for Hyundai America, I showed him most of these posts. He got such a laugh out of them he printed them off and took them to work one day, apparently now they're hanging in their break room as something for them to laugh at.

haha, awesome.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: PhoKingGuy
My roommate is an engineering intern for Hyundai America, I showed him most of these posts. He got such a laugh out of them he printed them off and took them to work one day, apparently now they're hanging in their break room as something for them to laugh at.

You should have mentioned it earlier. I would have kept the him going longer if I knew someone was actually getting something out of this.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: fleabag

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: fleabag
oh and :http://cardealerforums.com/alt...olice-perspective.html


read the article that is quoted

From Michelin's own site:

If you don?t know the proper inflation air pressure for your tires, what do you do? Easy. Check at one of the following places on your vehicle:
* In the vehicle owners manual.
* On the vehicle?s door jamb. (Often, a vehicle information placard is located on the door jamb along with the recommended tire inflation pressure.)
* Inside the fuel hatch filler flap. (In some vehicles.)
* The glove compartment door. (In some vehicles.)
o But NOT on the tire. The inflation pressure shown on the tire sidewall is only the maximum tire inflation pressure. In most situations, the vehicle manufacturers recommended tire inflation pressure is shown on the vehicle placard. However, on some older vehicles, the recommended pressure listed by your vehicle?s manufacturer may be shown as two numbers: One for city speed driving and normal load and one for highway speeds and/or maximum capacity vehicle load. Be sure to inflate your tires to the recommended inflation pressure for each type of driving situation.

Michelin's tire pressure recommendations

From tiresafety.com, which is run by bridgestone and firestone

Recommended Inflation Pressure Many people ask "what air pressures do you (meaning tire companies) recommend for cars under normal conditions?" The answer is "we recommend what the vehicle manufacturer recommends."

Tire safety


The tire companies themselves even say that the number on the sidewall isn't what you should be running your car at.

Bah, those are just recommendations...arbitrarily low numbers approved by lawyers. Everyone knows you should double what's on the sidewall for best everything...your tires will even blow you if you do this!

Michelin doesn't want to be held accountable when people crash their cars because the handling characteristics changed from what they were used to. You wouldn't necessarily want to make a RWD car any more prone to oversteer now would you? It's much easier to say "ask this guy" than to give out a laundry list of times when you can follow the sidewall. The problem I have with YOU is that you scare people into thinking that if they don't follow the door recommendations, the tire will explode and I'm saying you can inflate your tires to the sidewall and it'll be fine. There are obviously caveats to each tire pressure, pros and cons, risks and benefits, etc. etc. This was discussed ad-nauseum in the other thread and instead of acknowledging them, you chose to make a straw man argument by ignoring my posts and just continuing to point to the various companies and then stating that I'm saying they're idiots when that's not even what the argument is about.

I'll say it once and say it again, inflating your tires to sidewall isn't necessarily going to do anything, and it most CERTAINLY WILL NOT CAUSE THEM TO BURST unless they're dry rotted out which in that case you shouldn't be driving on them in the first place. There are pros to driving with the tires below manufacturer recommended levels, pros at manufacturer levels, and pros above the manufacturer recommended levels, and then there are also cons with all those levels. The pros and cons are pretty close to equal on all three levels though you need to admit that driving on tires that are below manufacturer recommendations is far less safe than over.

Oh and one more thing:
Ford exploder, 26psi recommendation, tire blowouts and rollovers.

I would NEVER drive on tires filled below 34psi.

My problem with YOU is that you advocate ignoring what the manufacturer of your car states is the optimal psi to run your tires at and going with some arbitrary number you seem to have pulled out of your ass. The maximum pressure rating on the sidewall of your tires is just that...the maximum pressure rating as stated by the manufacturer of the tire. Yet you have recommended exceeding that by 10 or even 20psi in your posts.

Auto manufacturers spend millions of dollars developing the cars they make, designing them so that they handle well, are safe, and comfortable. They spend hundreds of thousands of dollars working with tire manufacturers to source tires that help them meet their design goals and then they recommend proper tire pressures to make sure their vehicles perform to certain specs and you come along and tell us it's all bullshit and that we should listen to you? You have given me absolutely ZERO reason to listen to you over the people who actually engineered and built my car.

Honestly, your argument holds about as much water someone telling me that I should only fill my engine with 2 quarts of oil even though the manufacturer recommends 4.

Why the fuck anyone should listen to you is beyond me quite frankly.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: PhoKingGuy
My roommate is an engineering intern for Hyundai America, I showed him most of these posts. He got such a laugh out of them he printed them off and took them to work one day, apparently now they're hanging in their break room as something for them to laugh at.

You should have mentioned it earlier. I would have kept the him going longer if I knew someone was actually getting something out of this.

The crash safety one apparently got the Korean engineers to laugh as well, which apparently is a very hard thing to do.

 

[fleabag]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: fleabag

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: fleabag
oh and :http://cardealerforums.com/alt...olice-perspective.html


read the article that is quoted

From Michelin's own site:

If you don?t know the proper inflation air pressure for your tires, what do you do? Easy. Check at one of the following places on your vehicle:
* In the vehicle owners manual.
* On the vehicle?s door jamb. (Often, a vehicle information placard is located on the door jamb along with the recommended tire inflation pressure.)
* Inside the fuel hatch filler flap. (In some vehicles.)
* The glove compartment door. (In some vehicles.)
o But NOT on the tire. The inflation pressure shown on the tire sidewall is only the maximum tire inflation pressure. In most situations, the vehicle manufacturers recommended tire inflation pressure is shown on the vehicle placard. However, on some older vehicles, the recommended pressure listed by your vehicle?s manufacturer may be shown as two numbers: One for city speed driving and normal load and one for highway speeds and/or maximum capacity vehicle load. Be sure to inflate your tires to the recommended inflation pressure for each type of driving situation.

Michelin's tire pressure recommendations

From tiresafety.com, which is run by bridgestone and firestone

Recommended Inflation Pressure Many people ask "what air pressures do you (meaning tire companies) recommend for cars under normal conditions?" The answer is "we recommend what the vehicle manufacturer recommends."

Tire safety


The tire companies themselves even say that the number on the sidewall isn't what you should be running your car at.

Bah, those are just recommendations...arbitrarily low numbers approved by lawyers. Everyone knows you should double what's on the sidewall for best everything...your tires will even blow you if you do this!

Michelin doesn't want to be held accountable when people crash their cars because the handling characteristics changed from what they were used to. You wouldn't necessarily want to make a RWD car any more prone to oversteer now would you? It's much easier to say "ask this guy" than to give out a laundry list of times when you can follow the sidewall. The problem I have with YOU is that you scare people into thinking that if they don't follow the door recommendations, the tire will explode and I'm saying you can inflate your tires to the sidewall and it'll be fine. There are obviously caveats to each tire pressure, pros and cons, risks and benefits, etc. etc. This was discussed ad-nauseum in the other thread and instead of acknowledging them, you chose to make a straw man argument by ignoring my posts and just continuing to point to the various companies and then stating that I'm saying they're idiots when that's not even what the argument is about.

I'll say it once and say it again, inflating your tires to sidewall isn't necessarily going to do anything, and it most CERTAINLY WILL NOT CAUSE THEM TO BURST unless they're dry rotted out which in that case you shouldn't be driving on them in the first place. There are pros to driving with the tires below manufacturer recommended levels, pros at manufacturer levels, and pros above the manufacturer recommended levels, and then there are also cons with all those levels. The pros and cons are pretty close to equal on all three levels though you need to admit that driving on tires that are below manufacturer recommendations is far less safe than over.

Oh and one more thing:
Ford exploder, 26psi recommendation, tire blowouts and rollovers.

I would NEVER drive on tires filled below 34psi.

My problem with YOU is that you advocate ignoring what the manufacturer of your car states is the optimal psi to run your tires at and going with some arbitrary number you seem to have pulled out of your ass. The maximum pressure rating on the sidewall of your tires is just that...the maximum pressure rating as stated by the manufacturer of the tire. Yet you have recommended exceeding that by 10 or even 20psi in your posts.

Auto manufacturers spend millions of dollars developing the cars they make, designing them so that they handle well, are safe, and comfortable. They spend hundreds of thousands of dollars working with tire manufacturers to source tires that help them meet their design goals and then they recommend proper tire pressures to make sure their vehicles perform to certain specs and you come along and tell us it's all bullshit and that we should listen to you? You have given me absolutely ZERO reason to listen to you over the people who actually engineered and built my car.

Honestly, your argument holds about as much water someone telling me that I should only fill my engine with 2 quarts of oil even though the manufacturer recommends 4.

Why the fuck anyone should listen to you is beyond me quite frankly.

Yeah sure, like a manufacturer has never designed their car with priority over one aspect over another :roll: I've acknowledged time and again that they don't come up with those PSI door jam ratings out of thin air but at the same time, you need to realize that running at sidewall PSI isn't going to cause my tires to burst which I think is your primary and most others concern.

I'll say it again, auto manufacturers make their cars based upon compromises, everybody should know this and these manufacturers are like any other company. If manufacturers made MPG an only priority, they'd probably have most of the tires inflated to side wall PSI or near sidewall PSI even if it resulted in more wear down the center as evidenced by "comfort" vehicles having their tires wear down the sides and instead of wearing perfectly even. If safety was their top priority with comfort their LAST priority, I'm pretty damn sure they're inflate the front tires to sidewall PSI and then inflate the rear tires ONLY to the point where the handling characteristics were either neutral or lead to slight understeer. So on a Pickup, when unloaded, the rear tires would probably be 20psi below sidewall with the fronts being at sidewall. This would be the most safe configuration but not necessarily the most comfortable since the tires would have a the lowest risk of hydroplaning, lowest risk of blowout, and lowest risk of bad handling characteristics like too much over or understeer.


You seem to forget WHY Ford choose 26 PSI for their Ford Exploders. Stop with the "engineers, millions of dollars, how dare you disagree with the manufacturers, arbitrary numbers, etc etc." If your top goal is best MPG, inflating to sidewall certainly is NOT arbitrary. The fact that you can't seem to understand what I'm saying but keep going back to "but the manufacturers and their millions of dollars say..." seems to speak to me that you don't know what you're talking about so much so that what I'm saying can't possibly make sense because you can't comprehend what I said.

All you people seem to understand from me is that I disagree with the manufacturers and therefore I'm a jackass.