It depends on a number of things-- the weight of the vehicle, load carry capacity of the tires, ride comfort, having a margin of error, etc.
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Bignate603
Originally posted by: fleabag
oh and :http://cardealerforums.com/alt...olice-perspective.html
read the article that is quoted
From Michelin's own site:
If you don?t know the proper inflation air pressure for your tires, what do you do? Easy. Check at one of the following places on your vehicle:
* In the vehicle owners manual.
* On the vehicle?s door jamb. (Often, a vehicle information placard is located on the door jamb along with the recommended tire inflation pressure.)
* Inside the fuel hatch filler flap. (In some vehicles.)
* The glove compartment door. (In some vehicles.)
o But NOT on the tire. The inflation pressure shown on the tire sidewall is only the maximum tire inflation pressure. In most situations, the vehicle manufacturers recommended tire inflation pressure is shown on the vehicle placard. However, on some older vehicles, the recommended pressure listed by your vehicle?s manufacturer may be shown as two numbers: One for city speed driving and normal load and one for highway speeds and/or maximum capacity vehicle load. Be sure to inflate your tires to the recommended inflation pressure for each type of driving situation.
Michelin's tire pressure recommendations
From tiresafety.com, which is run by bridgestone and firestone
Tire safetyRecommended Inflation Pressure Many people ask "what air pressures do you (meaning tire companies) recommend for cars under normal conditions?" The answer is "we recommend what the vehicle manufacturer recommends."
The tire companies themselves even say that the number on the sidewall isn't what you should be running your car at.
Bah, those are just recommendations...arbitrarily low numbers approved by lawyers. Everyone knows you should double what's on the sidewall for best everything...your tires will even blow you if you do this!
Michelin doesn't want to be held accountable when people crash their cars because the handling characteristics changed from what they were used to. You wouldn't necessarily want to make a RWD car any more prone to oversteer now would you? It's much easier to say "ask this guy" than to give out a laundry list of times when you can follow the sidewall. The problem I have with YOU is that you scare people into thinking that if they don't follow the door recommendations, the tire will explode and I'm saying you can inflate your tires to the sidewall and it'll be fine. There are obviously caveats to each tire pressure, pros and cons, risks and benefits, etc. etc. This was discussed ad-nauseum in the other thread and instead of acknowledging them, you chose to make a straw man argument by ignoring my posts and just continuing to point to the various companies and then stating that I'm saying they're idiots when that's not even what the argument is about.
I'll say it once and say it again, inflating your tires to sidewall isn't necessarily going to do anything, and it most CERTAINLY WILL NOT CAUSE THEM TO BURST unless they're dry rotted out which in that case you shouldn't be driving on them in the first place. There are pros to driving with the tires below manufacturer recommended levels, pros at manufacturer levels, and pros above the manufacturer recommended levels, and then there are also cons with all those levels. The pros and cons are pretty close to equal on all three levels though you need to admit that driving on tires that are below manufacturer recommendations is far less safe than over.
Oh and one more thing:
Ford exploder, 26psi recommendation, tire blowouts and rollovers.
I would NEVER drive on tires filled below 34psi.
My problem with YOU is that you advocate ignoring what the manufacturer of your car states is the optimal psi to run your tires at and going with some arbitrary number you seem to have pulled out of your ass. The maximum pressure rating on the sidewall of your tires is just that...the maximum pressure rating as stated by the manufacturer of the tire. Yet you have recommended exceeding that by 10 or even 20psi in your posts.
Auto manufacturers spend millions of dollars developing the cars they make, designing them so that they handle well, are safe, and comfortable. They spend hundreds of thousands of dollars working with tire manufacturers to source tires that help them meet their design goals and then they recommend proper tire pressures to make sure their vehicles perform to certain specs and you come along and tell us it's all bullshit and that we should listen to you? You have given me absolutely ZERO reason to listen to you over the people who actually engineered and built my car.
Honestly, your argument holds about as much water someone telling me that I should only fill my engine with 2 quarts of oil even though the manufacturer recommends 4.
Why the fuck anyone should listen to you is beyond me quite frankly.
Yeah sure, like a manufacturer has never designed their car with priority over one aspect over another :roll: I've acknowledged time and again that they don't come up with those PSI door jam ratings out of thin air but at the same time, you need to realize that running at sidewall PSI isn't going to cause my tires to burst which I think is your primary and most others concern.
I'll say it again, auto manufacturers make their cars based upon compromises, everybody should know this and these manufacturers are like any other company. If manufacturers made MPG an only priority, they'd probably have most of the tires inflated to side wall PSI or near sidewall PSI even if it resulted in more wear down the center as evidenced by "comfort" vehicles having their tires wear down the sides and instead of wearing perfectly even. If safety was their top priority with comfort their LAST priority, I'm pretty damn sure they're inflate the front tires to sidewall PSI and then inflate the rear tires ONLY to the point where the handling characteristics were either neutral or lead to slight understeer. So on a Pickup, when unloaded, the rear tires would probably be 20psi below sidewall with the fronts being at sidewall. This would be the most safe configuration but not necessarily the most comfortable since the tires would have a the lowest risk of hydroplaning, lowest risk of blowout, and lowest risk of bad handling characteristics like too much over or understeer.
You seem to forget WHY Ford choose 26 PSI for their Ford Exploders. Stop with the "engineers, millions of dollars, how dare you disagree with the manufacturers, arbitrary numbers, etc etc." If your top goal is best MPG, inflating to sidewall certainly is NOT arbitrary. The fact that you can't seem to understand what I'm saying but keep going back to "but the manufacturers and their millions of dollars say..." seems to speak to me that you don't know what you're talking about so much so that what I'm saying can't possibly make sense because you can't comprehend what I said.
All you people seem to understand from me is that I disagree with the manufacturers and therefore I'm a jackass.
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Bignate603
Originally posted by: fleabag
oh and :http://cardealerforums.com/alt...olice-perspective.html
read the article that is quoted
From Michelin's own site:
If you don?t know the proper inflation air pressure for your tires, what do you do? Easy. Check at one of the following places on your vehicle:
* In the vehicle owners manual.
* On the vehicle?s door jamb. (Often, a vehicle information placard is located on the door jamb along with the recommended tire inflation pressure.)
* Inside the fuel hatch filler flap. (In some vehicles.)
* The glove compartment door. (In some vehicles.)
o But NOT on the tire. The inflation pressure shown on the tire sidewall is only the maximum tire inflation pressure. In most situations, the vehicle manufacturers recommended tire inflation pressure is shown on the vehicle placard. However, on some older vehicles, the recommended pressure listed by your vehicle?s manufacturer may be shown as two numbers: One for city speed driving and normal load and one for highway speeds and/or maximum capacity vehicle load. Be sure to inflate your tires to the recommended inflation pressure for each type of driving situation.
Michelin's tire pressure recommendations
From tiresafety.com, which is run by bridgestone and firestone
Tire safetyRecommended Inflation Pressure Many people ask "what air pressures do you (meaning tire companies) recommend for cars under normal conditions?" The answer is "we recommend what the vehicle manufacturer recommends."
The tire companies themselves even say that the number on the sidewall isn't what you should be running your car at.
Bah, those are just recommendations...arbitrarily low numbers approved by lawyers. Everyone knows you should double what's on the sidewall for best everything...your tires will even blow you if you do this!
Michelin doesn't want to be held accountable when people crash their cars because the handling characteristics changed from what they were used to. You wouldn't necessarily want to make a RWD car any more prone to oversteer now would you? It's much easier to say "ask this guy" than to give out a laundry list of times when you can follow the sidewall. The problem I have with YOU is that you scare people into thinking that if they don't follow the door recommendations, the tire will explode and I'm saying you can inflate your tires to the sidewall and it'll be fine. There are obviously caveats to each tire pressure, pros and cons, risks and benefits, etc. etc. This was discussed ad-nauseum in the other thread and instead of acknowledging them, you chose to make a straw man argument by ignoring my posts and just continuing to point to the various companies and then stating that I'm saying they're idiots when that's not even what the argument is about.
I'll say it once and say it again, inflating your tires to sidewall isn't necessarily going to do anything, and it most CERTAINLY WILL NOT CAUSE THEM TO BURST unless they're dry rotted out which in that case you shouldn't be driving on them in the first place. There are pros to driving with the tires below manufacturer recommended levels, pros at manufacturer levels, and pros above the manufacturer recommended levels, and then there are also cons with all those levels. The pros and cons are pretty close to equal on all three levels though you need to admit that driving on tires that are below manufacturer recommendations is far less safe than over.
Oh and one more thing:
Ford exploder, 26psi recommendation, tire blowouts and rollovers.
I would NEVER drive on tires filled below 34psi.
My problem with YOU is that you advocate ignoring what the manufacturer of your car states is the optimal psi to run your tires at and going with some arbitrary number you seem to have pulled out of your ass. The maximum pressure rating on the sidewall of your tires is just that...the maximum pressure rating as stated by the manufacturer of the tire. Yet you have recommended exceeding that by 10 or even 20psi in your posts.
Auto manufacturers spend millions of dollars developing the cars they make, designing them so that they handle well, are safe, and comfortable. They spend hundreds of thousands of dollars working with tire manufacturers to source tires that help them meet their design goals and then they recommend proper tire pressures to make sure their vehicles perform to certain specs and you come along and tell us it's all bullshit and that we should listen to you? You have given me absolutely ZERO reason to listen to you over the people who actually engineered and built my car.
Honestly, your argument holds about as much water someone telling me that I should only fill my engine with 2 quarts of oil even though the manufacturer recommends 4.
Why the fuck anyone should listen to you is beyond me quite frankly.
Yeah sure, like a manufacturer has never designed their car with priority over one aspect over another :roll: I've acknowledged time and again that they don't come up with those PSI door jam ratings out of thin air but at the same time, you need to realize that running at sidewall PSI isn't going to cause my tires to burst which I think is your primary and most others concern.
I'll say it again, auto manufacturers make their cars based upon compromises, everybody should know this and these manufacturers are like any other company. If manufacturers made MPG an only priority, they'd probably have most of the tires inflated to side wall PSI or near sidewall PSI even if it resulted in more wear down the center as evidenced by "comfort" vehicles having their tires wear down the sides and instead of wearing perfectly even. If safety was their top priority with comfort their LAST priority, I'm pretty damn sure they're inflate the front tires to sidewall PSI and then inflate the rear tires ONLY to the point where the handling characteristics were either neutral or lead to slight understeer. So on a Pickup, when unloaded, the rear tires would probably be 20psi below sidewall with the fronts being at sidewall. This would be the most safe configuration but not necessarily the most comfortable since the tires would have a the lowest risk of hydroplaning, lowest risk of blowout, and lowest risk of bad handling characteristics like too much over or understeer.
You seem to forget WHY Ford choose 26 PSI for their Ford Exploders. Stop with the "engineers, millions of dollars, how dare you disagree with the manufacturers, arbitrary numbers, etc etc." If your top goal is best MPG, inflating to sidewall certainly is NOT arbitrary. The fact that you can't seem to understand what I'm saying but keep going back to "but the manufacturers and their millions of dollars say..." seems to speak to me that you don't know what you're talking about so much so that what I'm saying can't possibly make sense because you can't comprehend what I said.
All you people seem to understand from me is that I disagree with the manufacturers and therefore I'm a jackass.
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: fleabag
I'll say it again, auto manufacturers make their cars based upon compromises, everybody should know this and these manufacturers are like any other company. If manufacturers made MPG an only priority, they'd probably have most of the tires inflated to side wall PSI or near sidewall PSI even if it resulted in more wear down the center as evidenced by "comfort" vehicles having their tires wear down the sides and instead of wearing perfectly even. If safety was their top priority with comfort their LAST priority, I'm pretty damn sure they're inflate the front tires to sidewall PSI and then inflate the rear tires ONLY to the point where the handling characteristics were either neutral or lead to slight understeer. So on a Pickup, when unloaded, the rear tires would probably be 20psi below sidewall with the fronts being at sidewall. This would be the most safe configuration but not necessarily the most comfortable since the tires would have a the lowest risk of hydroplaning, lowest risk of blowout, and lowest risk of bad handling characteristics like too much over or understeer.
You seem to forget WHY Ford choose 26 PSI for their Ford Exploders. Stop with the "engineers, millions of dollars, how dare you disagree with the manufacturers, arbitrary numbers, etc etc." If your top goal is best MPG, inflating to sidewall certainly is NOT arbitrary. The fact that you can't seem to understand what I'm saying but keep going back to "but the manufacturers and their millions of dollars say..." seems to speak to me that you don't know what you're talking about so much so that what I'm saying can't possibly make sense because you can't comprehend what I said.
All you people seem to understand from me is that I disagree with the manufacturers and therefore I'm a jackass.
OK, I'll indulge you one last time...
Here are three links suggesting you SHOULD NOT inflate a tyre to the maximum listed on the sidewall:
http://ask.cars.com/2007/05/how_do_i_find_t.html
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/198
http://fi-fi.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=55669726675&topic=9224
But I can already hear you crowing about how those are not credible sources, so here are two of the biggest tyre manufacturers in the world telling you to use the inflation recommendations on the car door jam.
http://www.michelinman.com/tir...ips/air-pressure-tips/
http://www.goodyeartires.com/k...y/properInflation.html
Stop digging, the hole has consumed you.
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: fleabag
I'll say it again, auto manufacturers make their cars based upon compromises, everybody should know this and these manufacturers are like any other company. If manufacturers made MPG an only priority, they'd probably have most of the tires inflated to side wall PSI or near sidewall PSI even if it resulted in more wear down the center as evidenced by "comfort" vehicles having their tires wear down the sides and instead of wearing perfectly even. If safety was their top priority with comfort their LAST priority, I'm pretty damn sure they're inflate the front tires to sidewall PSI and then inflate the rear tires ONLY to the point where the handling characteristics were either neutral or lead to slight understeer. So on a Pickup, when unloaded, the rear tires would probably be 20psi below sidewall with the fronts being at sidewall. This would be the most safe configuration but not necessarily the most comfortable since the tires would have a the lowest risk of hydroplaning, lowest risk of blowout, and lowest risk of bad handling characteristics like too much over or understeer.
You seem to forget WHY Ford choose 26 PSI for their Ford Exploders. Stop with the "engineers, millions of dollars, how dare you disagree with the manufacturers, arbitrary numbers, etc etc." If your top goal is best MPG, inflating to sidewall certainly is NOT arbitrary. The fact that you can't seem to understand what I'm saying but keep going back to "but the manufacturers and their millions of dollars say..." seems to speak to me that you don't know what you're talking about so much so that what I'm saying can't possibly make sense because you can't comprehend what I said.
All you people seem to understand from me is that I disagree with the manufacturers and therefore I'm a jackass.
OK, I'll indulge you one last time...
Here are three links suggesting you SHOULD NOT inflate a tyre to the maximum listed on the sidewall:
http://ask.cars.com/2007/05/how_do_i_find_t.html
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/198
http://fi-fi.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=55669726675&topic=9224
But I can already hear you crowing about how those are not credible sources, so here are two of the biggest tyre manufacturers in the world telling you to use the inflation recommendations on the car door jam.
http://www.michelinman.com/tir...ips/air-pressure-tips/
http://www.goodyeartires.com/k...y/properInflation.html
Stop digging, the hole has consumed you.
Great, I guess you still don't get it and so I'm going to BOLD what I just said. You annoy me because I point out what you're doing as being stupid for various reasons and then you go and do it again. Do I need to quote myself again? And again? And AGAIN? Maybe what I just quoted isn't good enough, maybe what you need to do is read ALL of my posts in regards to this issue! I don't know but I'll reiterate this for you one last time.
Auto manufacturers make their cars based upon compromises, and these manufacturers are like any other company. Major corporations don't want to be held liable if someone gets into an accident and dies because of a suggestion and so they just point to somebody else. It's a lot easier to say " follow the door jam" than to say, "Inflate to Sidewall, but if the handling Characteristics change to the point where it's undesirable, inflate and deflate your tires accordingly, also your ride is going to be harder and your tires may or may not wear down the center. Keep in mind, these people are also like you, they come up with a fact and they stick with it, it doesn't matter the fact was created during a time of bias-ply tires and so is totally irrelevant to radials of today, they're sticking with it because they don't want to test the fact themselves and they haven't been told by any "experts" otherwise.
If you want max MPG with out having to change much else on your car, inflate your tires to sidewall. If you're the kind of person who is willing to change out their wheels and tires to ones not recommended by the manufacturer or to add an exhaust or intake system to your car, or give their truck a lift kit, then you're no different from someone who inflates their tires sidewall, except for the fact that the latter does it for free while the former pays for it with large sums of money. I'm pretty sure you're more worried about people who inflate their tires to sidewall than you are about people who put on bigger wheels or add a lift kit to their vehicle and I'm trying to say to you, your worries are misplaced as those things can be far worse for how a vehicle behaves than you're willing to admit to.
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: fleabag
I'll say it again, auto manufacturers make their cars based upon compromises, everybody should know this and these manufacturers are like any other company. If manufacturers made MPG an only priority, they'd probably have most of the tires inflated to side wall PSI or near sidewall PSI even if it resulted in more wear down the center as evidenced by "comfort" vehicles having their tires wear down the sides and instead of wearing perfectly even. If safety was their top priority with comfort their LAST priority, I'm pretty damn sure they're inflate the front tires to sidewall PSI and then inflate the rear tires ONLY to the point where the handling characteristics were either neutral or lead to slight understeer. So on a Pickup, when unloaded, the rear tires would probably be 20psi below sidewall with the fronts being at sidewall. This would be the most safe configuration but not necessarily the most comfortable since the tires would have a the lowest risk of hydroplaning, lowest risk of blowout, and lowest risk of bad handling characteristics like too much over or understeer.
You seem to forget WHY Ford choose 26 PSI for their Ford Exploders. Stop with the "engineers, millions of dollars, how dare you disagree with the manufacturers, arbitrary numbers, etc etc." If your top goal is best MPG, inflating to sidewall certainly is NOT arbitrary. The fact that you can't seem to understand what I'm saying but keep going back to "but the manufacturers and their millions of dollars say..." seems to speak to me that you don't know what you're talking about so much so that what I'm saying can't possibly make sense because you can't comprehend what I said.
All you people seem to understand from me is that I disagree with the manufacturers and therefore I'm a jackass.
OK, I'll indulge you one last time...
Here are three links suggesting you SHOULD NOT inflate a tyre to the maximum listed on the sidewall:
http://ask.cars.com/2007/05/how_do_i_find_t.html
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/198
http://fi-fi.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=55669726675&topic=9224
But I can already hear you crowing about how those are not credible sources, so here are two of the biggest tyre manufacturers in the world telling you to use the inflation recommendations on the car door jam.
http://www.michelinman.com/tir...ips/air-pressure-tips/
http://www.goodyeartires.com/k...y/properInflation.html
Stop digging, the hole has consumed you.
Great, I guess you still don't get it and so I'm going to BOLD what I just said. You annoy me because I point out what you're doing as being stupid for various reasons and then you go and do it again. Do I need to quote myself again? And again? And AGAIN? Maybe what I just quoted isn't good enough, maybe what you need to do is read ALL of my posts in regards to this issue! I don't know but I'll reiterate this for you one last time.
Auto manufacturers make their cars based upon compromises, and these manufacturers are like any other company. Major corporations don't want to be held liable if someone gets into an accident and dies because of a suggestion and so they just point to somebody else. It's a lot easier to say " follow the door jam" than to say, "Inflate to Sidewall, but if the handling Characteristics change to the point where it's undesirable, inflate and deflate your tires accordingly, also your ride is going to be harder and your tires may or may not wear down the center. Keep in mind, these people are also like you, they come up with a fact and they stick with it, it doesn't matter the fact was created during a time of bias-ply tires and so is totally irrelevant to radials of today, they're sticking with it because they don't want to test the fact themselves and they haven't been told by any "experts" otherwise.
If you want max MPG with out having to change much else on your car, inflate your tires to sidewall. If you're the kind of person who is willing to change out their wheels and tires to ones not recommended by the manufacturer or to add an exhaust or intake system to your car, or give their truck a lift kit, then you're no different from someone who inflates their tires sidewall, except for the fact that the latter does it for free while the former pays for it with large sums of money. I'm pretty sure you're more worried about people who inflate their tires to sidewall than you are about people who put on bigger wheels or add a lift kit to their vehicle and I'm trying to say to you, your worries are misplaced as those things can be far worse for how a vehicle behaves than you're willing to admit to.
Changing the exhaust or intake doesn't change the safety characteristics of a vehicle. Adding bigger wheels or a lift kit or increasing your tire pressures does change how safe the car is. You're comparing apples to oranges.
I'm still not sure what the hell bias ply tires have to do with this discussion. My car was made in 2003 for radial tires. Nissan hasn't made a car that rides on bias ply tires since the early 1970s.
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: fleabag
I'll say it again, auto manufacturers make their cars based upon compromises, everybody should know this and these manufacturers are like any other company. If manufacturers made MPG an only priority, they'd probably have most of the tires inflated to side wall PSI or near sidewall PSI even if it resulted in more wear down the center as evidenced by "comfort" vehicles having their tires wear down the sides and instead of wearing perfectly even. If safety was their top priority with comfort their LAST priority, I'm pretty damn sure they're inflate the front tires to sidewall PSI and then inflate the rear tires ONLY to the point where the handling characteristics were either neutral or lead to slight understeer. So on a Pickup, when unloaded, the rear tires would probably be 20psi below sidewall with the fronts being at sidewall. This would be the most safe configuration but not necessarily the most comfortable since the tires would have a the lowest risk of hydroplaning, lowest risk of blowout, and lowest risk of bad handling characteristics like too much over or understeer.
You seem to forget WHY Ford choose 26 PSI for their Ford Exploders. Stop with the "engineers, millions of dollars, how dare you disagree with the manufacturers, arbitrary numbers, etc etc." If your top goal is best MPG, inflating to sidewall certainly is NOT arbitrary. The fact that you can't seem to understand what I'm saying but keep going back to "but the manufacturers and their millions of dollars say..." seems to speak to me that you don't know what you're talking about so much so that what I'm saying can't possibly make sense because you can't comprehend what I said.
All you people seem to understand from me is that I disagree with the manufacturers and therefore I'm a jackass.
OK, I'll indulge you one last time...
Here are three links suggesting you SHOULD NOT inflate a tyre to the maximum listed on the sidewall:
http://ask.cars.com/2007/05/how_do_i_find_t.html
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/198
http://fi-fi.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=55669726675&topic=9224
But I can already hear you crowing about how those are not credible sources, so here are two of the biggest tyre manufacturers in the world telling you to use the inflation recommendations on the car door jam.
http://www.michelinman.com/tir...ips/air-pressure-tips/
http://www.goodyeartires.com/k...y/properInflation.html
Stop digging, the hole has consumed you.
Great, I guess you still don't get it and so I'm going to BOLD what I just said. You annoy me because I point out what you're doing as being stupid for various reasons and then you go and do it again. Do I need to quote myself again? And again? And AGAIN? Maybe what I just quoted isn't good enough, maybe what you need to do is read ALL of my posts in regards to this issue! I don't know but I'll reiterate this for you one last time.
Auto manufacturers make their cars based upon compromises, and these manufacturers are like any other company. Major corporations don't want to be held liable if someone gets into an accident and dies because of a suggestion and so they just point to somebody else. It's a lot easier to say " follow the door jam" than to say, "Inflate to Sidewall, but if the handling Characteristics change to the point where it's undesirable, inflate and deflate your tires accordingly, also your ride is going to be harder and your tires may or may not wear down the center. Keep in mind, these people are also like you, they come up with a fact and they stick with it, it doesn't matter the fact was created during a time of bias-ply tires and so is totally irrelevant to radials of today, they're sticking with it because they don't want to test the fact themselves and they haven't been told by any "experts" otherwise.
If you want max MPG with out having to change much else on your car, inflate your tires to sidewall. If you're the kind of person who is willing to change out their wheels and tires to ones not recommended by the manufacturer or to add an exhaust or intake system to your car, or give their truck a lift kit, then you're no different from someone who inflates their tires sidewall, except for the fact that the latter does it for free while the former pays for it with large sums of money. I'm pretty sure you're more worried about people who inflate their tires to sidewall than you are about people who put on bigger wheels or add a lift kit to their vehicle and I'm trying to say to you, your worries are misplaced as those things can be far worse for how a vehicle behaves than you're willing to admit to.
Changing the exhaust or intake doesn't change the safety characteristics of a vehicle. Adding bigger wheels or a lift kit or increasing your tire pressures does change how safe the car is. You're comparing apples to oranges.
I'm still not sure what the hell bias ply tires have to do with this discussion. My car was made in 2003 for radial tires. Nissan hasn't made a car that rides on bias ply tires since the early 1970s.
People who make the suggestion that if you don't stick with the manufacturer's suggestions for tire pressure, you WILL get wear down the center of the tire and the car WILL have worse traction and WILL this and that. I'm saying, that isn't the case anymore, that you can inflate your tires to sidewall and find that they actually wear perfectly even and that the traction may be better and you may be safer overall. The PSI listed on the door is a recommendation, this doesn't mean you can't increase it as evidenced by owner's manuals suggestion to raise it when driving at higher speeds. It's not like they say, only raise the PSI if you're going to drive at higher speeds but soon as you get off the highway, lower it again otherwise you'll be at risk for such and such. Obviously every car is different but to make the suggestion that raising it to sidewall is dangerous or giving people the perception that if they do, they're putting themselves at great risk and that's just fear mongering.
The suggestions made in that thread about raising the PSI to boost MPG was perfectly valid and the fact that you guys jumped all over the OP like he was some dumbass making a horrible suggestion for better fuel economy shows how ignorant you guys are about the issue. I'm also pretty damn sure that if the OP of that thread had instead suggested to change your wheels to smaller rims with bigger tires and narrow tread width, you wouldn't have jumped all over him like you did with the tire PSI suggestion. This post you made makes it seem like you equate tire PSI with changing wheels while other posts make it seem like raising tire PSI is the equivalent of telling people to remove their rear drum brakes to save weight.
Originally posted by: fleabag
The suggestions made in that thread about raising the PSI to boost MPG was perfectly valid and the fact that you guys jumped all over the OP like he was some dumbass making a horrible suggestion for better fuel economy shows how ignorant you guys are about the issue. I'm also pretty damn sure that if the OP of that thread had instead suggested to change your wheels to smaller rims with bigger tires and narrow tread width, you wouldn't have jumped all over him like you did with the tire PSI suggestion. This post you made makes it seem like you equate tire PSI with changing wheels while other posts make it seem like raising tire PSI is the equivalent of telling people to remove their rear drum brakes to save weight.
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Honestly, your argument holds about as much water someone telling me that I should only fill my engine with 2 quarts of oil even though the manufacturer recommends 4.
Well great, I don't care. For those who are looking to do different than what their manufacturer recommends, check out what is on the internet, otherwise keep going to the dealership and stick with what ever they recommend even if it isn't in your best interest (like not EVER changing your transmission oil just because it isn't in the service schedule).Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: fleabag
I'll say it again, auto manufacturers make their cars based upon compromises, everybody should know this and these manufacturers are like any other company. If manufacturers made MPG an only priority, they'd probably have most of the tires inflated to side wall PSI or near sidewall PSI even if it resulted in more wear down the center as evidenced by "comfort" vehicles having their tires wear down the sides and instead of wearing perfectly even. If safety was their top priority with comfort their LAST priority, I'm pretty damn sure they're inflate the front tires to sidewall PSI and then inflate the rear tires ONLY to the point where the handling characteristics were either neutral or lead to slight understeer. So on a Pickup, when unloaded, the rear tires would probably be 20psi below sidewall with the fronts being at sidewall. This would be the most safe configuration but not necessarily the most comfortable since the tires would have a the lowest risk of hydroplaning, lowest risk of blowout, and lowest risk of bad handling characteristics like too much over or understeer.
You seem to forget WHY Ford choose 26 PSI for their Ford Exploders. Stop with the "engineers, millions of dollars, how dare you disagree with the manufacturers, arbitrary numbers, etc etc." If your top goal is best MPG, inflating to sidewall certainly is NOT arbitrary. The fact that you can't seem to understand what I'm saying but keep going back to "but the manufacturers and their millions of dollars say..." seems to speak to me that you don't know what you're talking about so much so that what I'm saying can't possibly make sense because you can't comprehend what I said.
All you people seem to understand from me is that I disagree with the manufacturers and therefore I'm a jackass.
OK, I'll indulge you one last time...
Here are three links suggesting you SHOULD NOT inflate a tyre to the maximum listed on the sidewall:
http://ask.cars.com/2007/05/how_do_i_find_t.html
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/198
http://fi-fi.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=55669726675&topic=9224
But I can already hear you crowing about how those are not credible sources, so here are two of the biggest tyre manufacturers in the world telling you to use the inflation recommendations on the car door jam.
http://www.michelinman.com/tir...ips/air-pressure-tips/
http://www.goodyeartires.com/k...y/properInflation.html
Stop digging, the hole has consumed you.
Great, I guess you still don't get it and so I'm going to BOLD what I just said. You annoy me because I point out what you're doing as being stupid for various reasons and then you go and do it again. Do I need to quote myself again? And again? And AGAIN? Maybe what I just quoted isn't good enough, maybe what you need to do is read ALL of my posts in regards to this issue! I don't know but I'll reiterate this for you one last time.
Auto manufacturers make their cars based upon compromises, and these manufacturers are like any other company. Major corporations don't want to be held liable if someone gets into an accident and dies because of a suggestion and so they just point to somebody else. It's a lot easier to say " follow the door jam" than to say, "Inflate to Sidewall, but if the handling Characteristics change to the point where it's undesirable, inflate and deflate your tires accordingly, also your ride is going to be harder and your tires may or may not wear down the center. Keep in mind, these people are also like you, they come up with a fact and they stick with it, it doesn't matter the fact was created during a time of bias-ply tires and so is totally irrelevant to radials of today, they're sticking with it because they don't want to test the fact themselves and they haven't been told by any "experts" otherwise.
If you want max MPG with out having to change much else on your car, inflate your tires to sidewall. If you're the kind of person who is willing to change out their wheels and tires to ones not recommended by the manufacturer or to add an exhaust or intake system to your car, or give their truck a lift kit, then you're no different from someone who inflates their tires sidewall, except for the fact that the latter does it for free while the former pays for it with large sums of money. I'm pretty sure you're more worried about people who inflate their tires to sidewall than you are about people who put on bigger wheels or add a lift kit to their vehicle and I'm trying to say to you, your worries are misplaced as those things can be far worse for how a vehicle behaves than you're willing to admit to.
Changing the exhaust or intake doesn't change the safety characteristics of a vehicle. Adding bigger wheels or a lift kit or increasing your tire pressures does change how safe the car is. You're comparing apples to oranges.
I'm still not sure what the hell bias ply tires have to do with this discussion. My car was made in 2003 for radial tires. Nissan hasn't made a car that rides on bias ply tires since the early 1970s.
People who make the suggestion that if you don't stick with the manufacturer's suggestions for tire pressure, you WILL get wear down the center of the tire and the car WILL have worse traction and WILL this and that. I'm saying, that isn't the case anymore, that you can inflate your tires to sidewall and find that they actually wear perfectly even and that the traction may be better and you may be safer overall. The PSI listed on the door is a recommendation, this doesn't mean you can't increase it as evidenced by owner's manuals suggestion to raise it when driving at higher speeds. It's not like they say, only raise the PSI if you're going to drive at higher speeds but soon as you get off the highway, lower it again otherwise you'll be at risk for such and such. Obviously every car is different but to make the suggestion that raising it to sidewall is dangerous or giving people the perception that if they do, they're putting themselves at great risk and that's just fear mongering.
The suggestions made in that thread about raising the PSI to boost MPG was perfectly valid and the fact that you guys jumped all over the OP like he was some dumbass making a horrible suggestion for better fuel economy shows how ignorant you guys are about the issue. I'm also pretty damn sure that if the OP of that thread had instead suggested to change your wheels to smaller rims with bigger tires and narrow tread width, you wouldn't have jumped all over him like you did with the tire PSI suggestion. This post you made makes it seem like you equate tire PSI with changing wheels while other posts make it seem like raising tire PSI is the equivalent of telling people to remove their rear drum brakes to save weight.
No, my point has always been that I would trust what the manufacturer of my car recommends over a total stranger on the internet.
It's not fear mongering. It is common sense.
Originally posted by: Bignate603
Originally posted by: fleabag
The suggestions made in that thread about raising the PSI to boost MPG was perfectly valid and the fact that you guys jumped all over the OP like he was some dumbass making a horrible suggestion for better fuel economy shows how ignorant you guys are about the issue. I'm also pretty damn sure that if the OP of that thread had instead suggested to change your wheels to smaller rims with bigger tires and narrow tread width, you wouldn't have jumped all over him like you did with the tire PSI suggestion. This post you made makes it seem like you equate tire PSI with changing wheels while other posts make it seem like raising tire PSI is the equivalent of telling people to remove their rear drum brakes to save weight.
Please go read the OP again. He never mentioned fuel efficiency. He just wanted to know why two different cars that had about the same weight had different recommended tire pressures.
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: Bignate603
Originally posted by: fleabag
The suggestions made in that thread about raising the PSI to boost MPG was perfectly valid and the fact that you guys jumped all over the OP like he was some dumbass making a horrible suggestion for better fuel economy shows how ignorant you guys are about the issue. I'm also pretty damn sure that if the OP of that thread had instead suggested to change your wheels to smaller rims with bigger tires and narrow tread width, you wouldn't have jumped all over him like you did with the tire PSI suggestion. This post you made makes it seem like you equate tire PSI with changing wheels while other posts make it seem like raising tire PSI is the equivalent of telling people to remove their rear drum brakes to save weight.
Please go read the OP again. He never mentioned fuel efficiency. He just wanted to know why two different cars that had about the same weight had different recommended tire pressures.
And the answer is, because the manufacturer decided this is how they want their car to behave. If you want your car to behave differently, then add or remove some pressure from your tires. A sports car is more likely to have the tire pressure at higher PSIs than a luxury or a car trying to over compensate on comfort due to its incorrectly designed suspension (Mid to late 90s SUVs anyone?).
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: Bignate603
Originally posted by: fleabag
The suggestions made in that thread about raising the PSI to boost MPG was perfectly valid and the fact that you guys jumped all over the OP like he was some dumbass making a horrible suggestion for better fuel economy shows how ignorant you guys are about the issue. I'm also pretty damn sure that if the OP of that thread had instead suggested to change your wheels to smaller rims with bigger tires and narrow tread width, you wouldn't have jumped all over him like you did with the tire PSI suggestion. This post you made makes it seem like you equate tire PSI with changing wheels while other posts make it seem like raising tire PSI is the equivalent of telling people to remove their rear drum brakes to save weight.
Please go read the OP again. He never mentioned fuel efficiency. He just wanted to know why two different cars that had about the same weight had different recommended tire pressures.
And the answer is, because the manufacturer decided this is how they want their car to behave. If you want your car to behave differently, then add or remove some pressure from your tires. A sports car is more likely to have the tire pressure at higher PSIs than a luxury or a car trying to over compensate on comfort due to its incorrectly designed suspension (Mid to late 90s SUVs anyone?).
You're talking crap. I'm calling it. You don't know what you're talking about.
A manufacturer will decide what is best for the car based upon many parameters, but there is no conspiracy here. They will have tested very high PSI's, they will have tested very low. The best performing from a safety and performance(MPG, etc) standpoint will have been established. So, here's the deal, you can have safety and performance or, if you choose to stray, you can remove one of those options. That's it. No messing.
So, you are right, a manufacturer of cars will decide what they want, but it's not like they don't know what they are doing. They have armies of engineers, engineering consultancies and so forth testing these configurations, before a car even makes it off a production line, via mules and test rigs. What do you use? Rule of thumb? Finger in the air? Yeah, that's what I thought.
I've owned cars from 10" wheels up to 19", and I have to tell you, the PSI range really doesn't move much from the 29-34 range, even on high performance cars.
So, to sum up, you're wrong. So very, very wrong that if you were to keep digging this hole, small planets would be drawn in to it.
I'll leave you with another tid-bit from the AA:
Correct tyre pressure is important for several reasons:
* Tyre life ? under or over inflation increases wear
* Fuel economy ? under inflation increases fuel consumption
* Safety ? under or over inflation will affect grip and braking performance
* Ride ? over inflation can result in a harsh, uncomfortable ride
I BID YOU GOOD DAY, SIR!
/bows
Originally posted by: fleabag
How many cars have you really owned? All by the same automaker?
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: fleabag
How many cars have you really owned? All by the same automaker?
I made a handy list. Now STFU.
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: fleabag
How many cars have you really owned? All by the same automaker?
I made a handy list. Now STFU.
Where are the trucks? Also I see that you had a Volvo S40, shouldn't you have noticed the little suggestion to raise the PSI to like 38 or 40 psi??? Oh wait my bad "1999 Volvo S40 Sport 2.0 - OMFG hardest suspension I have EVER had on ANY car, including a Lotus Exige." You think the suspension was too hard.. Aww no wonder why you wouldn't even DARE raising the tire PSI on that car! :laugh:
Look, fact is, I don't think you've ever toyed with the idea of raising tire pressure or at least raising tire pressure to the sidewall rating. I also don't think you ever did any form of racing with these vehicles either, but I could be wrong. Hey, let me ask you, have you EVER raised the tires passed the door jam recommendation? If so, why?
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: fleabag
How many cars have you really owned? All by the same automaker?
I made a handy list. Now STFU.
Where are the trucks? Also I see that you had a Volvo S40, shouldn't you have noticed the little suggestion to raise the PSI to like 38 or 40 psi??? Oh wait my bad "1999 Volvo S40 Sport 2.0 - OMFG hardest suspension I have EVER had on ANY car, including a Lotus Exige." You think the suspension was too hard.. Aww no wonder why you wouldn't even DARE raising the tire PSI on that car! :laugh:
Look, fact is, I don't think you've ever toyed with the idea of raising tire pressure or at least raising tire pressure to the sidewall rating. I also don't think you ever did any form of racing with these vehicles either, but I could be wrong. Hey, let me ask you, have you EVER raised the tires passed the door jam recommendation? If so, why?
:roll:
I need to have owned a truck now? LMFAO. Seriously. And the Volvo. Have you ever driven a Euro spec version with the sport suspension option? Probably not, and I can guarantee I've owned plenty of cars with stiff suspension, pretty much most of them if you bothered to look at the list. What has racing got to do with any of this? Do you race your truck? Would I care if you did?
I raise the PSI to the higher value on the door jam when running loaded.
You're wrong, no one in here has said you are right, and no one will. Running the tyre at sidewall is epic in it's stupidity. Ergo, you are at risk of appearing to be stupid.
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: fleabag
How many cars have you really owned? All by the same automaker?
I made a handy list. Now STFU.
Where are the trucks? Also I see that you had a Volvo S40, shouldn't you have noticed the little suggestion to raise the PSI to like 38 or 40 psi??? Oh wait my bad "1999 Volvo S40 Sport 2.0 - OMFG hardest suspension I have EVER had on ANY car, including a Lotus Exige." You think the suspension was too hard.. Aww no wonder why you wouldn't even DARE raising the tire PSI on that car! :laugh:
Look, fact is, I don't think you've ever toyed with the idea of raising tire pressure or at least raising tire pressure to the sidewall rating. I also don't think you ever did any form of racing with these vehicles either, but I could be wrong. Hey, let me ask you, have you EVER raised the tires passed the door jam recommendation? If so, why?
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: fleabag
How many cars have you really owned? All by the same automaker?
I made a handy list. Now STFU.
Where are the trucks? Also I see that you had a Volvo S40, shouldn't you have noticed the little suggestion to raise the PSI to like 38 or 40 psi??? Oh wait my bad "1999 Volvo S40 Sport 2.0 - OMFG hardest suspension I have EVER had on ANY car, including a Lotus Exige." You think the suspension was too hard.. Aww no wonder why you wouldn't even DARE raising the tire PSI on that car! :laugh:
Look, fact is, I don't think you've ever toyed with the idea of raising tire pressure or at least raising tire pressure to the sidewall rating. I also don't think you ever did any form of racing with these vehicles either, but I could be wrong. Hey, let me ask you, have you EVER raised the tires passed the door jam recommendation? If so, why?
Did you know that a Formula One car will only run about 16psi in their tires? They are capable of speeds well over 200mph.
NASCAR tire specs for California Speedway (Fontana): Technical Inspection Inflation: Left Front -- 30 psi; Left Rear -- 30 psi ; Right Front -- 48 psi; Right Rear -- 45 psi Minimum Recommended Inflation: Left Front -- 22 psi; Left Rear -- 20 psi; Right Front -- 45 psi; Right Rear -- 42 psi. That's for a car doing 190-200 miles per hour for 40 laps at a time putting a huge load on the outside tire during the entire run.
A Winston Cup car weighs about 3,400 lbs. My Nissan Maxima weighs about the same. The fastest I've had it up to is a bit over 100 mph and only for a short distance. There is zero reason for me to put 45psi in my tires and running higher than that is just insanely stupid.
Originally posted by: fleabag
When I play Nascar heat (yes I know I shouldn't mention this but I will) I always raise the tires to the highest PSI allowed and have always found that the tires not only stay cooler but they grip just as well if not better in the game.
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: fleabag
How many cars have you really owned? All by the same automaker?
I made a handy list. Now STFU.
Where are the trucks? Also I see that you had a Volvo S40, shouldn't you have noticed the little suggestion to raise the PSI to like 38 or 40 psi??? Oh wait my bad "1999 Volvo S40 Sport 2.0 - OMFG hardest suspension I have EVER had on ANY car, including a Lotus Exige." You think the suspension was too hard.. Aww no wonder why you wouldn't even DARE raising the tire PSI on that car! :laugh:
Look, fact is, I don't think you've ever toyed with the idea of raising tire pressure or at least raising tire pressure to the sidewall rating. I also don't think you ever did any form of racing with these vehicles either, but I could be wrong. Hey, let me ask you, have you EVER raised the tires passed the door jam recommendation? If so, why?
:roll:
I need to have owned a truck now? LMFAO. Seriously. And the Volvo. Have you ever driven a Euro spec version with the sport suspension option? Probably not, and I can guarantee I've owned plenty of cars with stiff suspension, pretty much most of them if you bothered to look at the list. What has racing got to do with any of this? Do you race your truck? Would I care if you did?
I raise the PSI to the higher value on the door jam when running loaded.
You're wrong, no one in here has said you are right, and no one will. Running the tyre at sidewall is epic in it's stupidity. Ergo, you are at risk of appearing to be stupid.
The fact that you don't UNDERSTAND why I'd bring up the use of a truck or racing shows to me you don't understand WHY running higher tire pressures is beneficial.
Tire sidewalls deflect less when they're inflated to the sidewall which means better handling. Also a tire's temperature, load index, speed rating, traction rating and all the other ratings aren't VALID unless inflated to the sidewall. IMAGINE THAT!
Sorry my mistake, I guess those Pirellis I have on that Volvo I drive are no match to those $5000 racing slicks you drive around on for your daily commute. :roll: Volvo can put expensive tires, stiff suspension and high pressure in their tires but you can't make 3(4/5)00 lbs "sporty" by any means. My sidewalls are "stiff as fuck" and consequently they wear evenly and not down the center. However if I had a pickup and I inflated to the tires to sidewall in the rear tires, you can pretty much be guaranteed wear down the center unless you've got that thing fully loaded.Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: fleabag
How many cars have you really owned? All by the same automaker?
I made a handy list. Now STFU.
Where are the trucks? Also I see that you had a Volvo S40, shouldn't you have noticed the little suggestion to raise the PSI to like 38 or 40 psi??? Oh wait my bad "1999 Volvo S40 Sport 2.0 - OMFG hardest suspension I have EVER had on ANY car, including a Lotus Exige." You think the suspension was too hard.. Aww no wonder why you wouldn't even DARE raising the tire PSI on that car! :laugh:
Look, fact is, I don't think you've ever toyed with the idea of raising tire pressure or at least raising tire pressure to the sidewall rating. I also don't think you ever did any form of racing with these vehicles either, but I could be wrong. Hey, let me ask you, have you EVER raised the tires passed the door jam recommendation? If so, why?
:roll:
I need to have owned a truck now? LMFAO. Seriously. And the Volvo. Have you ever driven a Euro spec version with the sport suspension option? Probably not, and I can guarantee I've owned plenty of cars with stiff suspension, pretty much most of them if you bothered to look at the list. What has racing got to do with any of this? Do you race your truck? Would I care if you did?
I raise the PSI to the higher value on the door jam when running loaded.
You're wrong, no one in here has said you are right, and no one will. Running the tyre at sidewall is epic in it's stupidity. Ergo, you are at risk of appearing to be stupid.
The fact that you don't UNDERSTAND why I'd bring up the use of a truck or racing shows to me you don't understand WHY running higher tire pressures is beneficial.
Tire sidewalls deflect less when they're inflated to the sidewall which means better handling. Also a tire's temperature, load index, speed rating, traction rating and all the other ratings aren't VALID unless inflated to the sidewall. IMAGINE THAT!
If I posted like this someone might call me a fucking tiring idiot. My sidewalls are stiff as fuck, as they are 40 & 35 section. Maybe YOU don't understand that there is a world of difference between the cheap high profile shat you put on your truck and the high quality low profile rubber I use on my car.
That and Jules has saved me the keyboard wear regarding explaining racing to you. Wow.
Originally posted by: fleabag
Tires are completely different and they do that because the tires get to ridiculous temperatures.
When I play Nascar heat (yes I know I shouldn't mention this but I will) I always raise the tires to the highest PSI allowed and have always found that the tires not only stay cooler but they grip just as well if not better in the game.