Tired of goofballs saying that conservatives hate America. Get a clue!

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Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
0
That's totally not true. I work, I have a job, I will always have a job because I'm motivated to work. With this job comes money, and I can always find people that want to sell me health insurance.

If I don't work, I don't have money and can't eat, shelter, transportation or buy health insurance. See how that works? Without those even the most lazy of lazy will get motivated to work.

It's awesome that you live somewhere where all you need to have a job that pays well enough to afford health insurance is the motivation to work, and that job's pay increases match or outpace health insurance rate hikes, and that job will never go away as long as you want it, and you will never be dropped from your health insurance for any reason. Better not let the poor folks know where this is or they'll ruin it for you.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Who is the greedy self-absorbed one? He who educates himself and works hard his whole life to provide for his family all the while making sacrifices to save for his future retirement and the needs of his children.......or the one who sits on his ass expecting the aforementioned to pay for all of his shortcomings through the force of government?
Wow! What we have here is either a total failure at reading comprehension or blind ideological ignorance of the highest order.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,865
10
0
I have great news for you and your buds that feel this way.

Since this is America, you are free to leave to forth and find the Utopia you are looking for.

If this was China or North Korea, you would not be able to leave.

So please go forth and best of luck with whatever country you find that doesn't have Liberals that love America.

Or, since you think Europe's healthcare is a model of how we should do it, you can leave. Unless they have a problem with crazy people.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
btw, the working class that got paid crap and died early deaths from overwork because they had no evil union representation built our country. Oh, and slaves. -Just sayin.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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America where Healthcare is a right but your hard earned money isn't. It is the peoples money!

Your entire post sounds like moronic dogma coming from someone who is good at spouting off pre-canned dogma but who is awful at critical thinking and introspection. Did you just copy and paste this crap from some other website? I'll be surprised if you actually read this thread or respond to my post.

You do have to wonder, how much was your ability to earn the hard-earned money dependent on the government and society at large in some sort of a way?

I hate YOUR VERSION of America damn straight!

Oh, cry me an Atlas Shrugged.

Where personal responsibility is traded for lackluster expensive healthcare run like the post office.

Actually, socialized medicine has proven to be less expensive and superior to free market medicine in many ways. In fact, in the U.S. much of the money spent on health care is skimmed by people who have nothing to do with actually providing health care, such as insurance company executives and their employees, insurance brokers, benefits plan managers, and medical billing specialists.

The U.S. is spending about 16% or 17% of its GDP on health care while leaving tens of millions of people uninsured or under-insured with the rest living in sheer terror of losing their health insurance while having hundreds of thousands of medical bankruptcies every year and while having (surprise) private businesses suffer from the burdens of paying for and providing health insurance. (Ironically, real socialized medicine would probably be a boon for businesses and entrepreneurship.) In contrast, other nations spend a smaller percentage of their GDP on health care while having 100% coverage, a more content and secure populace, almost zero medical bankruptcies, and businesses that aren't burdened by health insurance concerns.

Did you know that many of those evil Kantian excrement-grubbing socialist people's states even have more doctors per capita than the U.S.? See:

http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/02/health-care-costs-opinions-columnists-reform.html

Where no one gets great healthcare because it is not fair so everyone gets marginal healthcare!

What makes you so certain that people in the evil socialist nations aren't receiving good health care? Do they have shorter life expectancies? What about the people in America who are receiving marginal health care or no health care at all?

How do you explain the situation where an insurance policy's death panel rescinds a cancer patient's health insurance on the day of her surgery? Is that "great health care"?

Under socialized medicine there's no reason why a wealthy SOB couldn't just purchase private, exquisite health care with his own money. It's not as though private doctors and hospitals would be outlawed if people wanted to pay for them.

WOO HOO! That is insentive to work hard! Where some asshole who sits at home and plays PS3 gets to get that marginal healthcare at your expense!

Could that be because free market dogmatists destroyed the U.S. economy by shipping jobs overseas, importing foreigners on work visas to take college-education-requiring, knowledge-based jobs, and then imported millions of immigrants to displace even more Americans and further depress wages?

Woo Hoo! Where my employer will pay a 40% tax on my HSA because it is called a cadillac plan. My HSA where I MYSELF reduce my own healthcare costs by paying cash and shopping for hotdeals on treatment. I actually get cash discounts.

Come back and let us know what you think about our current health care system after your job is sent overseas or filled by someone on a work visa or after equally qualified Americans offer to do your job for half your current wage. That having been said, I agree that tax on the Cadillac plans does seem a little unfair.

Not for Long! I have to give up saving money so that fat bastard on that PS3 can have marginal healthcare and not have to take care of himself, develop diabetes and then we'll all pay for his treatment! Oh great now I'm on the same plan too. Where I don't know any costs except the cost of my time wasted sitting in a lobby for marginal healthcare.

What makes you so certain that you too might not become the fat bastard playing the PS3 or reading discussion forums one day? What if for some reason you lost your job and/or your ability to work and needed government-provided medicine. This could happen in any number of ways. Let's suppose that you are diagnosed with cancer and can no longer work or perform your job well so your employer has to let you go. Afterward you are unable to pay your new high premium. Then what? Let's suppose that someone plants child pornography on your computer (or that you are falsely accused of child molestation or rape or whatever) and that after copious amounts of media publicity and an acquittal people still regard you as a criminal and you cannot find work (at least not work that would provide benefits or pay you enough to purchase insurance on your own)? Let's suppose that next week it is revealed that your company's CEO has been slowly looting the company for years, leaving your company bankrupt and out of business and that he has now taken off for Bimini with his favorite bimbo and because of the current state of the U.S. economy you are unable to find another job?

What makes America Great to a progressive Lib? Everything being fair! with an exemption for Unions because they vote Democrat.

Not everyone who advocates socialized medicine is a liberal wack job. Heck, some even greatly admire the likes of Ayn Rand and might even regard Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead as being two of their favorite novels.

Fining people who don't pay into healthcare. Taking money away from the healthy to pay for people in poor health. That sounds fair right? Mandated healthcare or a Fine! Sounds like Liberty to me! You Betcha!

I suspect that most advocates of real socialized medicine disapprove the Democrats' plan, which really does almost nothing to address the nation's fundamental health care problems (such as spending huge amounts of money on middlemen that do not directly provide health care).

No what makes America great is that if you work hard you can make yourself successful.

Sometimes yes and sometimes no. Many people who worked hard and trained and obtained college education are unemployed or underemployed-and-involuntarily-out-of-field. The notion that we have a real meritocracy in this country is very much a myth where often success is based not on what you know but on who you know. Success might even be correlated with height and good looks.

You all want to tax people all to hell.

What's ironic is that under real socialized medicine, the American people would either end up saving money or breaking even while having better coverage. It's been proven to be far more efficient and less expensive than our current system in many other countries.

Why can't we properly regard the high health insurance costs and inefficiencies of free market medicine as a tax? Does it make a difference if the checks you write are to a private company or to the government? If the check you would write to the government is smaller than the check you would write to the private insurance company then isn't that a "good tax"?

What makes the government know better what to do with your money than you do?

It's not an issue of knowledge, it's an issue of efficiency. Everyone needs or is going to need health insurance at some point. If a government-run system could save money and be more efficient than what the free market could provide then in essence, wouldn't the "government know better what to do?" Likewise, when it comes to national defense, the government probably "knows better what to do" than individual citizens.

What Happens when people and business cannot afford your taxes? There goes your tax dollars!

It doesn't matter to a person or a business whether they write a check to the insurance company or to the government. The difference is that when it comes to health care, the check written to the government will be smaller than the one written to the insurance company. (Other nations spend a smaller amount of their GDP on health care and spend less per person while having 100% coverage and often more doctors per capita.)

I do agree with you that if free market dogmatism were to destroy the nation's economy as it is already doing that the government would have less tax revenue.

Workers will not work as hard. Even Doctors under the healthcare plan purposed they can make up to only so much money so when they are done with that vacation the rest of the year and wait till next year when they can get paid for working.

Other nations seem to be able to motivate their doctors to work and to provide health care. As far as I know the UK even pays bonuses to doctors who keep their patients healthy or improve their health. (Now that is a great incentive.)

Say goodbye to innovation! Should we be no longer rewarded in the market if we build a better widget? If it has taken thousands or millions of dollars to develop that widget but then the government says sorry you cannot make that much why bother trying to innovate?

I don't see any reason why government-funded medical and scientific research could not continue nor why independent researchers and pharmaceutical companies would not be allowed to reasonably profit from their patent-protected innovations.

With a centeralized Government do we get to really keep what is ours? What if the government wants it? There is no more GM or Chrysler as we have known it.

You could keep a good portion of what you earn and if the government does a good job with its economic policies you'll be able to keep a larger portion or earn more in the first place. The irony is that under socialized medicine most people would have more wealth and a higher standard of living and quality of life than under free market medicine (where you could be subject to a private insurance company's death panel).

Banks are told not reward anyone. Not even the sucessful honest hard working people. Everyone is bad. There goes all the talent.

What makes you think that the overpaid banksters are really all that talented or that they could not be easily replaced? It's not as though our nation doesn't already have unemployed MBAs and other bright people who would love to have those jobs and/or to train for those positions. I don't buy the "they are like professional athletes" dogma.

Anyone with a brain that was left will find a new place to work as their compensation is capped by a beaurcrat that could barely get a job in the mail room.

By fleeing the country perhaps? Good riddance. I don't see how these people are irreplaceable. They just push paper and money around; it's not like they are the top 2% of all scientists or engineers. If you need to have an IQ in the top 5% to do those jobs, in a nation of 300+ million people we would have 15 million people who could potentially do those jobs.

What exactly do those guys do anyway? Make decisions about what businesses should and shouldn't receive loans? They don't provide actual health care. They do not engage in scientific or engineering innovation. They do not manufacture any actual products. What is it that they do for our economy that makes them so unique and irreplaceable, exactly? What are they doing that we cannot train your average MBA graduate to do 98% as well as what they do for a mere $200,000/year?

The government feels more and more entitled to our money. That is a problem. This is a limited Government for the people and not vice-versa. I do not support your utopian dream of a broke but fair America. Freedom isn't free. And Liberty is a punchline and not a right anymore. What has happened to Liberty? Why is pursuing it wrong now? Can we only have Life now?

What exactly is it that you want? Do you want real laissez-faire capitalism or some sort of a capitalist-leaning mixed economy where the government has reasonable regulations?

I'm all for having a strong economy and for having less need for the government to have to provide social welfare services, but I truly doubt that real capitalism is the best way to attain that.

Maybe you think your post is the second coming of Atlas Shrugged or something, but it just came off to me as being knee-jerk teenage-like angst.
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
32
91
That's totally not true. I work, I have a job, I will always have a job because I'm motivated to work. With this job comes money, and I can always find people that want to sell me health insurance.

You'll always have a job because you are motivated to work--just like the millions of Americans who are now on the unemployment rolls? What if you can find a job but it no longer comes with sufficient money to pay your mortgage or to rent an apartment or to purchase health insurance? (What if you are diagnosed with some chronic illness or cancer or whatever and cannot afford to pay a mint per month?)

Be thankful for what you have and don't take it for granted.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Spidey 07 sez, "That's totally not true. I work, I have a job, I will always have a job because I'm motivated to work. With this job comes money, and I can always find people that want to sell me health insurance."

Yet in the long run, your current good health will turn to shit. What happens to someone like Spidey if a health issue precludes you from working? You can be motivated as hell, but when health issues make your working impossible, and you lose your health insurance as a result, and then can't get health insurance due to preexisting conditions at any price, you might gain some perspective.

Ya I know, that is the compassionate conservative health plan called don't get sick.

Shall we hold our breath waiting for Spidey to get sick when it happens to millions of other people?
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Spidey 07 sez, "That's totally not true. I work, I have a job, I will always have a job because I'm motivated to work. With this job comes money, and I can always find people that want to sell me health insurance."

Yet in the long run, your current good health will turn to shit. What happens to someone like Spidey if a health issue precludes you from working? You can be motivated as hell, but when health issues make your working impossible, and you lose your health insurance as a result, and then can't get health insurance due to preexisting conditions at any price, you might gain some perspective.

Ya I know, that is the compassionate conservative health plan called don't get sick.

Shall we hold our breath waiting for Spidey to get sick when it happens to millions of other people?

Thats why you save money for when times are tough.
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
32
91
Who is the greedy self-absorbed one? He who educates himself and works hard his whole life to provide for his family all the while making sacrifices to save for his future retirement and the needs of his children.......or the one who sits on his ass expecting the aforementioned to pay for all of his shortcomings through the force of government?

Are you certain that your vision of an unemployed person today isn't a strawman? Do you really think all of the unemployed people are uneducated hicks and inner city dwellers who pop out litters of children willy-nilly? Do you really believe that only good things such as stable employment happen to good people and that only bad things happen to bad people?
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Are you certain that your vision of an unemployed person today isn't a strawman? Do you really think all of the unemployed people are uneducated hicks and inner city dwellers who pop out litters of children willy-nilly? Do you really believe that only good things such as stable employment happen to good people and that only bad things happen to bad people?

Bad things can happen to good people. Tough apple Shirley.
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
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This defines conservatives vs. liberals.

Conservatives want equal opportunity
Liberals want equal outcome

It's a shame that people aren't just made of square pegs and round pegs. It's a shame that not all liberals have the same views and that not all conservative have the same views and that not all people are liberals or conservatives.
 

razor2025

Diamond Member
May 24, 2002
3,010
0
71
Oh, a irrational rant from a "conservative" guy.

America where Healthcare is a right but your hard earned money isn't. It is the peoples money!

Yup, it's people's money. By you logic, I don't want to pay for the roads, TV, communications, education, food safety, and etc.... that I helped pay for that YOU take advantage of. Are all conservative people so selfish and greedy? Take take take?

I hate YOUR VERSION of America damn straight!

So, you hate a society, where people help each other for benefit of each other. But, rather have an anarchy of people murdering each other for scraps of food. Oh, I see....
(A little slippery slope, I admit)

Rants about PS3 = Healthcare (sorry, if I mis-characterize, it was rather incoherent to being with)

Your view of health care is a little whacked. NO ONE chooses to have diabetes. NO ONE chooses to have cancer. You equate health as something one can 100% control it. Please take a hint, you can't. I won't even argue how HSA is a retarded excuse for making health care "better". Secondly, there are PLENTY of example of UHC-like or UHC system in other parts of the world where STATISTICALLY have proven to work better than what we have today. Is it the "conservative" idea to pay MORE for LESS? Why bother with the best care, when it's unlikely you can AFFORD IT to begin with?


What makes America Great to a progressive Lib? Everything being fair! with an exemption for Unions because they vote Democrat. Fining people who don't pay into healthcare. Taking money away from the healthy to pay for people in poor health. That sounds fair right? Mandated healthcare or a Fine! Sounds like Liberty to me! You Betcha!

Again, the take-take-take mentality. You live amongst millions of people, who sweat & blood, past and present, have allowed you to become who you are today. They didn't say "I don't want my money to go towards the well-being of EXman"!

No what makes America great is that if you work hard you can make yourself successful. You all want to tax people all to hell. What makes the government know better what to do with your money than you do? What Happens when people and business cannot afford your taxes? There goes your tax dollars! Workers will not work as hard. Even Doctors under the healthcare plan purposed they can make up to only so much money so when they are done with that vacation the rest of the year and wait till next year when they can get paid for working.

This is the most funny thing you wrote. First, I hope my doctor's priority isn't "Make the most money". Second, why do you think this would "tax all to hell"? The bill for UHC is FRACTIONS of what we spend on military. Which do you think have the most direct impact in our lives? I'm more likely to die from health related issues than terrorist attack BY FAR. You really don't understand the idea and purpose of tax, either.

Say goodbye to innovation! Should we be no longer rewarded in the market if we build a better widget? If it has taken thousands or millions of dollars to develop that widget but then the government says sorry you cannot make that much why bother trying to innovate? With a centeralized Government do we get to really keep what is ours? What if the government wants it? There is no more GM or Chrysler as we have known it.

Hmm.. let's see. If I have a business that makes $100. And suddenly I only make $50 due to increased tax, by your logic I SHOULD JUST STOP RIGHT THERE! I can't innovate anymore because I make $50 million instead of $100 million! What would government do with this supposed "cash grab"? SIT ON IT? Christ. They SPEND IT. And in our case pay for care of its citizen, meaning YOU. Do you know who doesn't spend the money and hoards cash? Rich people. Pick the right target to bitch about please.

Banks are told not reward anyone. Not even the sucessful honest hard working people. Everyone is bad. There goes all the talent. Anyone with a brain that was left will find a new place to work as their compensation is capped by a beaurcrat that could barely get a job in the mail room. Sure there are bad guys in each industry and they do not deserve gloden parachutes. I think they should get 2 weeks money and send them packing if they were stealing or frauding the company they should be prosecuted as well. But Branding all people in specific industries as bad and then taking over their companies and running them is not a recipe for long term success in America.

At least, I can agree somewhat with you here, only on the part of "let's not generalize too much". But why do you think that happens? Because the banking industry insulted the VERY PEOPLE that bailed them out with massive bonuses. Shit, what talent? You mean the very people who CAUSED the problem? I pray to god they are leaving the industry. The people I would want to stay, would forgo the bonus (short-term gain) and think of their own industry's reputation (long-term gain).


The government feels more and more entitled to our money. That is a problem. This is a limited Government for the people and not vice-versa. I do not support your utopian dream of a broke but fair America. Freedom isn't free. And Liberty is a punchline and not a right anymore. What has happened to Liberty? Why is pursuing it wrong now? Can we only have Life now?

Define limited. Define freedom. Define government feeling "entitled". You spout nonsensical "America FUCK YEAH" statements, without clearly understanding how society works.

<puts on flamsuit>

You don't need flame suit, you just need to stop taking the crazy pill. People who label themselves "conservatives" aren't even conservatives. They're sociopaths.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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Or, since you think Europe's healthcare is a model of how we should do it, you can leave. Unless they have a problem with crazy people.

It's hard to just pick up and leave if you have family in the U.S. and if you don't speak the language in another country, assuming they'd even let you in. Some people work in fields that require professional licensure that does not easily transfer to other countries.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,865
10
0
It's hard to just pick up and leave if you have family in the U.S. and if you don't speak the language in another country, assuming they'd even let you in. Some people work in fields that require professional licensure that does not easily transfer to other countries.

 

razor2025

Diamond Member
May 24, 2002
3,010
0
71

Please explain why you think that didn't make sense? Really, I'd like to know. I can almost guarantee you that whatever you write in reply, would make absolutely NO SENSE whatsoever in the least with mere base knowledge of how immigration works.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,865
10
0
Please explain why you think that didn't make sense? Really, I'd like to know. I can almost guarantee you that whatever you write in reply, would make absolutely NO SENSE whatsoever in the least with mere base knowledge of how immigration works.

Scroll up to my first post in this thread. To anyone with a basic reading ability, it will all make sense.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
they can hate conservatives all they want. I guess it really bugs them that conservatives built this great nation and without them there wouldn't be that many jobs or much of a tax base to steal money from to pay for all the things on their wish list.

lmfao!!
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
You'll always have a job because you are motivated to work--just like the millions of Americans who are now on the unemployment rolls? What if you can find a job but it no longer comes with sufficient money to pay your mortgage or to rent an apartment or to purchase health insurance? (What if you are diagnosed with some chronic illness or cancer or whatever and cannot afford to pay a mint per month?)

Be thankful for what you have and don't take it for granted.

There's SSDI and my long term disability insurance (provided by those evil insurance companies) as well to take care of that. You can't fix stupid, stupid being not able to take care of yourself, or just too stupid to be lazy.

If you want to work, there are jobs.
 

razor2025

Diamond Member
May 24, 2002
3,010
0
71
Scroll up to my first post in this thread. To anyone with a basic reading ability, it will all make sense.

You said
Or, since you think Europe's healthcare is a model of how we should do it, you can leave. Unless they have a problem with crazy people.

Which got responded with
It's hard to just pick up and leave if you have family in the U.S. and if you don't speak the language in another country, assuming they'd even let you in. Some people work in fields that require professional licensure that does not easily transfer to other countries.

And you simply rolled eyes....

Is that it? How does that make sense? Really. Did you address any one of his valid points about immigration? You know, huge differences in immigration law, family, restrictions on moving money, differences in job opportunity...No, no you did not. Yeah, and you complain about my reading comprehension.

Here, I'll help you "comprehend" his post. He basically said, that it's FAR EASIER to change policy in your OWN government, than to change policy in OTHER government to relax their immigration. See? That wasn't so hard when your own ideology doesn't blind you from reading posts. Yeah, "reading comprehension" indeed....
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
Less fortunate=Lazy

Such a black and white world you live in, it makes me wonder how depressing it must be to be so shallow. Like that movie that had no color at first, I believe it was called "Pleasantville"
 
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