Titan X Announced

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Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,834
2
26
you are totally making stuff up. this is twice in this thread.

You havent looked back?

" I'd have to go back and check, but I believe they were already selling fully unlocked chips in Teslas/Quadros when Titan arrived"

I already posted about this and the way it was rolled out. You dont even know but you keep on insisting this complete fabricated view of a purposeful slow roll out and there is absolutely nothing as evidence to support it. It is made up, the facts dont line up with it at all.
I have made my case, twice. And yet you continue while admitting that you havent even took the time to look at how the gk110 was actually rolled out.

The first gk110 chip was the tesla K20(x). That enitire oak ridge supercomputer was filled with gimped chips. 2496cuda/2688cores enabled out of a max of 2880. Not only that, the speed was gimped to the lowest gk110 speed of all chips, 706/732mhz.

This k20(x) chip was shipping to the super computer Q4 2012, nvidia had announced both the k20 and the k20x in November of 2012, availability was an issue.

So far, in our timeline, no full gk110 chips launched. The next chip to launch is the first titan. Feb 2013. It was too, a cut down gk110.
It had the same amount of cuda cores as the K20X which is 2688 cores. The original titan ran at 837-876mhz with a TDP of 250watts

Then there was first gtx 780 (march), 3 months after titan- it had less cores than all other chips, k20, k20x, and titan. 2304cuda cores running at 863-900mhz. It had a TDP of 250watts, just like the titan and real world consumption was about on par as well. These signs point to this being a GPU made from stock piles of gk110 chips that couldnt make the cut as K20(x) or titan. This is the only explanation for the power consumption which should be lower if nvidia just gimped it for the heck of it.

The next gk110 to launch was the k6000. 3 months after the 780, 6 months after the titan, and 9 months after the first cut down gk110s came out (k20s), we finally get there. the k6000, it was the full fledged gk100 and was shipping by August 2013. We had heard rumors about this chip for awhile, but it was the end of july (2013) before nvidia finally made it official. This chip had an amassing trait not seen before. Running all 2880cores at over 900mhz.........the tdp was down to 225watts. hmmm.....isnt that interesting. You would think that something must be improving all these months later.........

Then in about a month, was the announcement of the gtx780ti. the first full fledged gk110 geforce card. It was announced in october, about a month after the k6000 and launched in the first week of November. Not only was it the first full fledged geforce gk110, it was also running at a much higher speed than any gk110 before it. 876-928mhz. And even more amassing, for all these cores......running at higher speeds........the power consumption of the 780ti was about the same as the much lowered spec titan that came out 8 months before it.

Finally, we get to the full fledged tesla gk110, it came a few weeks after the 780ti. A full 2880 cores running at a higher speed 810-875mhz with the TDP staying exactly the same 235watts as the slower and cut down k20x of a year before it.

There was no slow roll on purpose. To me, it is a theory just made up for whatever purpose they think it might serve. There are no facts to support it but when you start looking at the actual situation as it played out, the evidence supports quite the opposite.

Nvidia came into kepler straight from fermi. Fermi was a sore spot and nvidia was working hard to improve that power hog image they were ridiculed for. There was absolutely no way nvidia could have launched a full chip 780ti monster at the time they launched the gtx680. It was completely impractical to produce in volume, impractical from a yield perspective, but even if they could, the power consumption would have been worse than the original 480 was.

Count how many months it took to come out with a much improved gtx780ti and it completely aligns with the time frame of a re-spin. The same amount of time it took nvidia to fix the gf100, the same amount of time it took for the original gtx480 to launch when it was delayed 9 months.

This time though, the gk110 wasnt nearly as bad in shape as the gf100 originally was. But it was far from the real possibility of a full gk110 in the beginning of 2013. All signs point the other way. I think this time, the limited wafers really hurt just as much or more. Going with a big die on a new node is a huge huge risk.

Then there is the fact that originally, nvidia was prepping the gk104 to serve as the 670ti. There were even box covers printed, this thing was real. Nvidia had no faith in the gk104 betting Tahiti and i believe their plan was to try to hold off AMD as long as they could, to not have the performance crown for months and months. There is absolutely no way nvidia could have launched a gk110 at all a year earlier when the 680 launched march 2012. Even in november 2012, all nvidia could manage was a few k20s for the oak ridge super computer. This was cut down gk110s that were very very limited in supply.

The original titan, a cut down gk110 that came out a year after the gtx680. It sold out too, there was not capacity even then.

Look, no matter how you slice it. The slow roll theory is bunk. It just didnt happen like that. You cannot rewrite history. Why would nvidia let AMD take the performance crown with the 7970ghz if they could have launched the gk110 all along? AMD held the lead for months and months and nvidia just struggled for parity in some games. None of this makes sense unless you accept that there was real issues getting the gk110 out of the gate.

Serious question: Why do so many people here feel the need to write essays as responses to posts? Is it some kind of perception thing? This entire post could probably have been summed up in half of the length. -.-
 

dangerman1337

Senior member
Sep 16, 2010
333
5
81
Breaking down GM200 into a slow-drip like they did GK100 just makes sense as it lets them milk it. It is no different than Titan's launch, it comes out at an abnormally high price point and then they launch 780 two months later for $400 less. They follow that up with a full chip down the road for a bit more like 780ti.
Slow dripping doesn't make sense when Nvidia is likely to bring GP100 (Big Pascal) Q2 next year considering that leaked research paper had GK210 Q3 2014 but released a quarter later and GM200 as Q4 2014 but now releasing a quarter later. The paper said Q1 2016 so extrapolating on recent news we can probably expect Big Pascal Q2 2016. Also considering Volta is going to be around in 2017 for supercomputers (probably in very limited numbers) I dobut Nvidia is going to have GM200 drip feed like Kepler. Also to take into account is that 28nm is a very mature process for 3+ years.

I don't doubt there will be cut down GM200s or GeForce GM200s and the like but they are not going to stretch it out for a long period this time. This is not 2012/2013 where even most intensive games were designed to work on hardware from 2005. Also PC has been getting 'special' treatment with specific setting features that would be not worth it the performance cost on 8th generation consoles and most benchmarks of games of the current generation that don't have 360 and PS3 compromises have even 980s struggle at 2560x1440.
 

Cloudfire777

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2013
1,787
95
91
Look at this picture.


GM204 is much smaller than GK110, yet there is 800 core difference between them. Then notice that GM200 is only a little bigger than GK110. So I think it might be exactly like last time:
GTX Titan 2688 cores > GTX 780 Ti 2880 cores Full GK110
GTX Titan X 3072 cores > GTX 980 Ti 3200 cores Full GM200
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,554
2
76
At least your username is appropriate. You tell people to "think with their brains," yet yours is ruled by bias. If you think that lying to customers is fine, then I really don't care about anything you have to say. All that they had to do was explain that from the beginning and this issue would have only resulted in some minor groaning. None of you Nvidia white knights seem to understand why people are upset at all...

the sort of behavior that has them lie to the consumer is the sort of behavior that's going to cause them to tweak the driver in 2 years to start using the 512MB RAM that's slow to make people upgrade.
 

ocre

Golden Member
Dec 26, 2008
1,594
7
81
Will admit that was only worth skimming as there was a real lack of brevity there, but, GK110 was certainly a slow roll out. In fact, Kepler as a whole was a slow play.

Titan-780-780ti-Titan Black. It was the best way to maximize profit. It really was very well done releasing Titan when they did for $1000 after a long drought of no real high end, just the 680 mid-range. Buyers with the cash grabbed them up and once that initial rush was clear, the 780 which was ready in the wings was dropped @ $600 to clean up the rest who balked at the $1000 price. Made excellent sense to do it this way because there are those who bought Titan @ $1000 that would of gotten a 780 instead had it been available. It was brilliant not to release the two together.

After that it was reactionary releases and price cuts against AMD with the 780 price cut, 780ti release and then Titan Black release. We'll see something similar happen with GM200 starting with Titan X. While it may not be a mirror image release cadence, we can certainly expect much the same of a slow roll out starting with an ultra expensive GM200 with no other options and then once that initial rush is milked, we'll see a cut down card come out. I personally expect Titan X to be cut down so they can launch a full fat down the road, we'll have to see, but it would be the best way to maximize profit and it worked so well with Kepler.

What is great this time is that we have Kepler's release history to look at and have an idea of what to expect. With the first Titan they bamboozled everyone by dropping that card without a hint of another card soon to come and just a few months later coming with the 780.

Of course when someone takes the time to lay it all out, right there in front of you, you don't take the time to even read it.

You admitted you don't know what you are talking about, you havent even took the time to look at how the gk110 really rolled out, so why not stop with this alternate make believe theory already?

The Titan-780-780ti came in an order out of necessity, not this master plan to maximize profit. The telsa/quadro followed the same pattern as well. You keep making stuff up and I am asking you now to please stop with the bull.

Your theory is so full of holes it is utter nonsense. Besides, Very very few people who bought the original Titan or 780 went on to buy the Titan black or 780ti, instead they just overclocked away.

There was no chance of a gk110 card when the original 680 launched, it was a complete impossibility. Unless you can prove otherwise, you need to stop repeating garbage. It was a year later before the gk110 was even possible and then it was only cut down versions in limited supply. The release periods, order, and power consumption of each gk110 card tell a very different story. It plots out showing continued improvement. The full flat 780ti running at an even higher clock speed only used about as much power as the original Titan. This is not explainable with your theory and only proves that nvidia needed more time to perfect their chip on this process. It takes about 9 months for each respin (see fermi), just about exactly how long after the Titan that the 780ti launched. The same time frame from the gk104 to the k20s. The same time frame that the 5870 enjoyed with the 480 being a no show. The same time period from the 480 to the 580. And oddly enough, the same time period that the gm204 will have all to itself waiting for the 390x. (Its not really so odd when you really pay attention)

Nvidia was planning the gk104 to be a 670ti and only changed it to the 680 after they saw Tahiti in action. The sad part about all this is......you absolutely know that already. You seen pics of the retail box leaks, there were just as well pictures of actual cards too. There is no way you dont know about the gk104 and its original role to be a 670ti.. the 680, it became this after Tahiti. Nvidia played the only hand they had and at the time all they could produce was the gk104. Surely you saw the 670ti pictures, retail box pictures, and that is why I find your continued insistence of this alternate reality so very very bizarre.
 
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Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,108
1,260
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The Titan-780-780ti came in an order out of necessity, not this master plan to maximize profit.

Everything is done to maximize profit. The huge number of initial GK110s would be allocated to the super computers because they were netting more profit per card than they would on Geforce, had it been the other way around, they would of gone to Geforce if there was a larger premium to be had. Titan-780-780ti-Titan Black is the slow drip to again maximize profit. I said I couldn't be bothered to check the specs of the initial GK110s and you seem to have fixated on that. I haven't read the bulk of all your posts because there is no brevity and quick skimming is showig they are positing the same thing over and over: hypothesizing that nvidia just 'wings it', which is far-fetched to say the least, no need to read it again and again. I simply disagree with your take that they are a benevolent organization that is not operating in a way that milks every product for as much profit as possible.

I think you have an unrealistic idea of how nvidia is operating. It's all about making as much money as possible. The milking of GK110, stratosphere Titan pricing, delaying and concealing the imminent 780 launch at Titan's launch, mid-range 680 as flagship, etc. We are seeing exactly the same thing now with 980 mid range as flagship, an even higher stratosphere Titan X now launching and you still have some doubt when it's playing out exactly like it did with Kepler... It's always about making as much money as possible, the lying and deception with GTX 970 specs at launch to put it out as a '4GB' card against their competition's 4GB card is another example of doing whatever can be done to have as successful and profitable product launches as possible.

This seems to be going nowhere. I simply disagree with your perception of nvidia as just 'winging it', benevolent and not methodically planning everything to milk maximum profit. Their success and recent history disagrees with your notion. Honestly, I don't even understand why it has become such a sticking point for you disagreeing with my opinion. You've expressed your contrasting opinion multiple times, you're not achieving anything with repeating it incessantly.
 

96Firebird

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
5,712
316
126
Ah, predicting future GPUs... I remember some posters believed the 980 wouldn't beat the 780 Ti at high resolutions because of it's slower memory bandwith, and we all know how that turned out.

Its ok though, predicting future GPUs is hard. Especially when you only believe select rumors that fit your agenda.
 
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DooKey

Golden Member
Nov 9, 2005
1,811
458
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Frankly I find it extremely funny that anyone but the most naïve would find NV business strategy somehow anti-consumer. It's obvious that consumers find their strategy worth while because NV owns the dGPU market. Also, it's obvious their stockholders are very satisfied as well. Buy whichever brand of dGPU you want but don't mistake any brand as a friend.

There isn't a corporation in the world that is somehow doing anything for (insert consumer class) as though they are some kind of sacred cow. Stockholders and profits are all that matter and people who think otherwise are certainly naïve or blind. I see this often on this and other forums.

Of course NV milked each die they had. It's not a bad thing looking at their balance sheet. AMD would have done the same thing but they don't know how to do business.
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,949
504
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Frankly I find it extremely funny that anyone but the most naïve would find NV business strategy somehow anti-consumer. It's obvious that consumers find their strategy worth while because NV owns the dGPU market.
So you're saying any company that dominates a market gets there because of how pro consumer they are? Talk about being naive...
 

DooKey

Golden Member
Nov 9, 2005
1,811
458
136
What does that have to do with anything?

LOL. NV offers a full spectrum of product to the consumer from the lowest of the low dGPU to the fastest dGPU available. Not one single consumer of their product has to buy what they offer. For some odd reason they own 75% of the dGPU market. If the consumer somehow felt as though NV was screwing them over (anti-consumer) then NV wouldn't have the market they have. Simple really. Just because you feel as though AMD is the only consumer friendly company doesn't hold water. The market is the reality. AMD made their bed and the consumer has spoken.

I know this kind of thought hurts you video card company fans.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
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LOL. NV offers a full spectrum of product to the consumer from the lowest of the low dGPU to the fastest dGPU available. Not one single consumer of their product has to buy what they offer. For some odd reason they own 75% of the dGPU market. If the consumer somehow felt as though NV was screwing them over (anti-consumer) then NV wouldn't have the market they have. Simple really. Just because you feel as though AMD is the only consumer friendly company doesn't hold water. The market is the reality. AMD made their bed and the consumer has spoken.

I know this kind of thought hurts you video card company fans.

Two things, 1)Most consumers are not informed. 2)OEM sales are a large part of the dGPU market.
 

DooKey

Golden Member
Nov 9, 2005
1,811
458
136
Two things, 1)Most consumers are not informed. 2)OEM sales are a large part of the dGPU market.

Hmmmm, I disagree. Both consumers and OEMs are informed of the pricing and performance they expect. Perception is reality. AMD has totally screwed up perception of their product. This doesn't make NV anti-consumer.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
Hmmmm, I disagree. Both consumers and OEMs are informed of the pricing and performance they expect. Perception is reality. AMD has totally screwed up perception of their product. This doesn't make NV anti-consumer.

Nothing AMD does has anything to do with nVidia being anti consumer. Just what nVidia does. Which is what has earned them that rep.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
I dont agree with that 3D, its only die hard AMD fans who think NV has a bad rep!

Right.

It's me and two other guys that are spreading all of this.
Most recently nVidia didn't lie about the 970's specs just to tick some boxes and sell more to unsuspecting consumers. Like I said, it's just me and a couple of other guys making it up.

Just to qualify something. I don't dislike nVidia because I like AMD. It's the other way around. I prefer AMD because of the way nVidia conducts their business and don't want to support them because of it.

I prefer open competition between companies. I don't like things like Gameworks where the code is locked away purely to gain the upper hand against the competition, regardless of how it effects consumers. I don't like G-sync which is proprietary simply to create an ecosystem around my product. DP1.2a shows it's completely unnecessary. I don't like companies publishing false specifications and then when they are caught red handed, I really don't like them denying it. I don't like the way nVidia is doing nothing for their unhappy customers and instead making the retailers wear it. I don't like companies taking advantage of and manipulating the market place at my expense.
 

Headfoot

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2008
4,444
641
126
In business that's correct. The balance sheet is all that matters.

That's true, I definitely buy video cards based on how well a company is doing and not how well the video card performs.

That's why I'm holding out for a new PowerVR card
 

stahlhart

Super Moderator Graphics Cards
Dec 21, 2010
4,273
77
91
Take your petty, off-topic arguing elsewhere, and get this thread back on topic.
-- stahlhart
 

SolMiester

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2004
5,331
17
76
Right.

It's me and two other guys that are spreading all of this.
Most recently nVidia didn't lie about the 970's specs just to tick some boxes and sell more to unsuspecting consumers. Like I said, it's just me and a couple of other guys making it up.

Just to qualify something. I don't dislike nVidia because I like AMD. It's the other way around. I prefer AMD because of the way nVidia conducts their business and don't want to support them because of it.

I prefer open competition between companies. I don't like things like Gameworks where the code is locked away purely to gain the upper hand against the competition, regardless of how it effects consumers. I don't like G-sync which is proprietary simply to create an ecosystem around my product. DP1.2a shows it's completely unnecessary. I don't like companies publishing false specifications and then when they are caught red handed, I really don't like them denying it. I don't like the way nVidia is doing nothing for their unhappy customers and instead making the retailers wear it. I don't like companies taking advantage of and manipulating the market place at my expense.

AMD has their own property features too you know! (Mantle anyone) You keep belting the 970 RAM issue, claiming a lie, when you have no proof...You really need to change the record

Infraction issued for thread crapping.
-- stahlhart
 
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