Titan X Launch

[DiogoDX]

My very old 5970 ($600 in 2010) came with backplate and termal pads for the memory chips on the back of the pcb.

But now a $1000 card is selling with no backplate. The result is a 102 degrees memory chips in normal operation.:thumbsdown:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/nvidia-geforce-gtx-titan-x-gm200-maxwell,review-33151-6.html

 

[xorbe]

Imho you still need a silent fan on the card with water. Hot things need air flow, and more than just the gpu is hot. The whole card is hot.

 

[3DVagabond]

Crappy block. They couldn't do a full cover for such an overpriced card ? Even EK is cheaping out

Also, seems like Titan X is a paper launch. No availability anywhere at any major etailors; newegg, ncix etc. Just on nvidia's own site and at EVGA where it has been OOS from launch

From what I understand only nVidia is selling them direct. Talk about stealing the cherry on top.

 

[3DVagabond]

That is in the eye of the beholder. I very much doubt AMD is going to improve their CF support this year. Same goes for CPU optimization. The display thing might solve itself, but it might simply take too much time:
I want to play the AAA games on or close to release on my new display, not maybe 6 months later. But it remains to be seen, who comes out first with a G-Sync/Free-Sync 27-28" 4K display with VA/IPS/...

This is my personal list btw...

You do realize that if AMD did the same thing with not releasing the AMD feature source code for GE games then nVidia wouldn't have good SLI support either. You are taking it out on the wrong party. PC gaming would be a complete shambles. You are actually supporting the reason AMD doesn't have improved Crossfire support. You really shouldn't be complaining about it.

Well, some did guess as much. However, 'Titan' designation threw most others off, as DP was highlighted as one of the features with the last one.

Only by forum dwellers. nVidia has always promoted Titan as the ultimate gaming card.

 

[Silverforce11]

My very old 5970 ($600 in 2010) came with backplate and termal pads for the memory chips on the back of the pcb.

But now a $1000 card is selling with no backplate. The result is a 102 degrees memory chips in normal operation.:thumbsdown:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/nvidia-geforce-gtx-titan-x-gm200-maxwell,review-33151-6.html

That cannot be right.

VRAM should not be running at 100C. Cannot be good for them at all!

 

[AtenRa]

That cannot be right.

VRAM should not be running at 100C. Cannot be good for them at all!

There are VRMs certified for up to 120c operation.

 

[Silverforce11]

There are VRMs certified for up to 120c operation.

VRAM not VRM. VRM doesn't make me concern until 115C where its has major efficiency drops.

GDDR5 modules running at 102C is scary.

Edit: It's real. Guru3d's thermal camera also picks up very high temps on the ram modules on the back (without any cooling). Guru3d gets 93C on a open bench. Toms seem to run it inside a case getting 102C.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_geforce_gtx_titan_x_review,10.html

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/933-8/temperatures-nuisances-sonores.html
Also found 93C+ on the rear modules on open bench test.

Unacceptable for such an expensive premium GPU.

 

[AtenRa]

VRAM not VRM. VRM doesn't make me concern until 115C where its has major efficiency drops.

GDDR5 modules running at 102C is scary.

heh my bad, still drinking coffee.

 

[HurleyBird]

That's really worrisome, although easy enough to stick some heat spreaders on there.

 

[3DVagabond]

That's really worrisome, although easy enough to stick some heat spreaders on there.

For a grand you'd think nVidia could have afforded to do that for you.

 

[AtenRa]

$999 card without a back-plate, heh
Now you have to buy a WC block and a back-plate. They could sell it at $1299 with those two and would have better reviews from day one

 

[Silverforce11]

For a grand you'd think nVidia could have afforded to do that for you.

A backplate? With so many dense modules, would make it worse by preventing airflow. Now NV's decision to not put on a backplate makes sense.

GDDR5 just needs some cool airflow, doesn't require heatsinks. I run mine naked on the R290s with just fresh air on them. Cool enough to touch.

ps. It's been discussed & reviewed before, backplates tend to be aesthetics or "structural support" only, modules don't run cooler, in fact, they can run hotter due to airflow obstruction.

 

[3DVagabond]

A backplate? With so many dense modules, would make it worse by preventing airflow. Now NV's decision to not put on a backplate makes sense.

GDDR5 just needs some cool airflow, doesn't require heatsinks. I run mine naked on the R290s with just fresh air on them. Cool enough to touch.

ps. It's been discussed & reviewed before, backplates tend to be aesthetics or "structural support" only, modules don't run cooler, in fact, they can run hotter due to airflow obstruction.

Depends. I've seen reviews of aftermarket back plates reducing VRM temps with a thermal pad placed on the back of the PCB behind the VRM. Increasing surface area definitely halps with cooling, which is what a back plate can accomplish. You just need to establish a proper interface conductive to heat transfer. It's not reducing any airflow. The same airflow is there across the back plate. You just have to get the heat to transfer to it.

I agree though that RAM chips don't typically need extra cooling. This is really curious.

 

[AtenRa]

A backplate? With so many dense modules, would make it worse by preventing airflow. Now NV's decision to not put on a backplate makes sense.

GDDR5 just needs some cool airflow, doesn't require heatsinks. I run mine naked on the R290s with just fresh air on them. Cool enough to touch.

ps. It's been discussed & reviewed before, backplates tend to be aesthetics or "structural support" only, modules don't run cooler, in fact, they can run hotter due to airflow obstruction.

I will have to disagree with that, a properly design back-plate will reduce the VRAM (and even VRM in some boards) temps. Also if you have air flow that is passing through the back-plate of the GPU you will gain an additional reduction because the back-plate has a huge area in relationship of the tiny memory module alone.

 

[lopri]

Impressive performance over my original Titan (up to twice as fast), but there's no need to rush to get one. This time I'll wait to see how AMD's next card is, and the almost certain 980 Ti which will follow.

I'm glad I skipped the GTX980.

Are there still fused-off parts in this card? I thought this one was a full-blown Maxwell.

 

[dangerman1337]

Honestly this card seems underwhelming and feels like Nvidia is going to jack up prices across the board. We've got 28nm performance range cards being 550USD (while the 970 is 200 USD less the VRAM issue means that games that fill out 3.5GB+ are going to have struttering issues, I don't want to waste money on such experience) and now the Titan here while utilizing a full core has subpar DP performance and is a pure gaming card now. Considering the cooler seems cheap this feels like Nvidia is just milking it and that they are going to make cards even more expensive (I bet the non-Titan GP100s will be close the 999USD, just watch). At this pointexpect no 6GB GM200 that fully utilizes the core and they'll just release a "980ti". If this card had a better cooler and far better DP performance then 999 USD would be an ok price point.

The implications are kind of scary is that if AMD drops out of the market, then the cost of PC hardware will shot up and people will not buy GPUs with massive profit-margins. This will of course people going "**** this/that" and a game such as Star Citizen could be its last (though one could argue that PC games designed to use hardware to its max are kind of gone and Total War and Star Citizen are the last of their kind due to development costs anyway).

 

[lopri]

^ That already happened when NV first introduced "Titan" brand. As PC gaming dwindles and NV is being squeezed out in mobile segment, its survival strategy at this time seems to be gouging its loyal customers and PC gaming enthusiasts. (and filing frivolous lawsuits) Though Titan X is somewhat less egregious compared to the first Titan from value standpoint, lol. Depending on how the future unfolds this trend may become permanent and PC gaming may as well become a boutique hobby.

 

[ShintaiDK]

That cannot be right.

VRAM should not be running at 100C. Cannot be good for them at all!

It doesnt matter. Its still within their specs.

Did you for example know that the chipset in your PC runs hotter than the CPU?

The only issue is really that they sell a 1000$ card without. Had it been a sub 500$ card it wouldnt matter. But for 1000$ you deserve more. Specially when a GTX980 got it.

A few previous GPUs:

 

[Silverforce11]

@ShintaiDK
I know full well mosfets/VRMs are often spec to 125C (some military grade stuff spec to 175C) and can get to 115C for some open air designs..

What is surprising is seeing RAM modules running 102C. In all my GDDR5 GPU history, they typically run 45-80C tops. My R290s ram module (naked with direct airflow) is cool enough to touch without burning the fingers.

Can't find any temperature specs for Hynix/Samsung GDDR5 modules, anyone know their safe operating temp range?

Edit:
Found this from Micron for their GDDR5 modules, 95C is upper limit:

Edit2: Found Hynix's data spec sheet for GDDR5!
85C upper limit! I knew there's a reason why GDDR5 ram modules have never ran that hot before in any GPUs I've used.

According to TPU pics, Titan X has Hynix H5GQ4H24MFR-R2C, the #C class is spec up to 85C.

GG NV I hope they've tested extended stress test on GDDR5 running that hot above spec.

 

[Keysplayr]

@ShintaiDK
I know full well mosfets/VRMs are often spec to 125C (some military grade stuff spec to 175C) and can get to 115C for some open air designs..

What is surprising is seeing RAM modules running 102C. In all my GDDR5 GPU history, they typically run 45-80C tops. My R290s ram module (naked with direct airflow) is cool enough to touch without burning the fingers.

Can't find any temperature specs for Hynix/Samsung GDDR5 modules, anyone know their safe operating temp range?

Edit:
Found this from Micron for their GDDR5 modules, 95C is upper limit:

Titan X is rumored to use Hynix, Samsung, or Elpida. At any rate the cards seem to be performing normally. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

[Silverforce11]

Titan X is rumored to use Hynix, Samsung, or Elpida. At any rate the cards seem to be performing normally. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Yeah, I found it, TPU's sample has Hynix chips (H5GQ4H24MFR-R2C) which is rated by Hynix for 85C.

Hopefully this won't be another ramgate in the making and people's $1000 GPUs won't die prematurely like bumpgate.

 

[ShintaiDK]

@ShintaiDK
I know full well mosfets/VRMs are often spec to 125C (some military grade stuff spec to 175C) and can get to 115C for some open air designs..

What is surprising is seeing RAM modules running 102C. In all my GDDR5 GPU history, they typically run 45-80C tops. My R290s ram module (naked with direct airflow) is cool enough to touch without burning the fingers.

Can't find any temperature specs for Hynix/Samsung GDDR5 modules, anyone know their safe operating temp range?

Edit:
Found this from Micron for their GDDR5 modules, 95C is upper limit:

Edit2: Found Hynix's data spec sheet for GDDR5!
85C upper limit! I knew there's a reason why GDDR5 ram modules have never ran that hot before in any GPUs I've used.

According to TPU pics, Titan X has Hynix H5GQ4H24MFR-R2C, the #C class is spec up to 85C.

GG NV I hope they've tested extended stress test on GDDR5 running that hot above spec.

First of all military grade means nothing. And its more often than not that commercial non military grade is better.

Secondly, as provided, VRAM running at 100C+ have been done for a decade or more. Its not something new that suddenly happend. You could find GDDR3 running at 120C on HD4870 cards for example.

Lastly, tCase depends on the actual timings used. Hynix for example in their datasheets have different formulas involving tCase and timings etc.

 

[Spanners]

...
Secondly, as provided, VRAM running at 100C+ have been done for a decade or more. Its not something new that suddenly happend. You could find GDDR3 running at 120C on HD4870 cards for example.

Lastly, tCase depends on the actual timings used. Hynix for example in their datasheets have different formulas involving tCase and timings etc.

What do you mean as provided? All those thermal images as far as I could tell have no memory chips on the rear of the cards? I'm aware that's still in spec for the VRMs and I'd assume the PCB but I don't see RAM in any of them.

I couldn't find any specific information on HD4870 memory temps (besides forums) but the reference cooler made contact with the VRAM chips via thermal pads so I'd be surprised to find they were running 120C. Link? Also I was under the impression only the HD4850 used GDDR3.

When you say they are still within specs which specs are you referring to? All I could find was 85C-95C on various spec sheets.

I doubt the Titan X will have any issues but it's interesting information.

 

[Keysplayr]

Yeah, I found it, TPU's sample has Hynix chips (H5GQ4H24MFR-R2C) which is rated by Hynix for 85C.

Hopefully this won't be another ramgate in the making and people's $1000 GPUs won't die prematurely like bumpgate.

Yeah I hope not. Don't want to create a lot of hype panic where there shouldn't be. Right?

 

[ShintaiDK]

What do you mean as provided? All those thermal images as far as I could tell have no memory chips on the rear of the cards? I'm aware that's still in spec for the VRMs and I'd assume the PCB but I don't see RAM in any of them.

I couldn't find any specific information on HD4870 memory temps (besides forums) but the reference cooler made contact with the VRAM chips via thermal pads so I'd be surprised to find they were running 120C. Link? Also I was under the impression only the HD4850 used GDDR3.

When you say they are still within specs which specs are you referring to? All I could find was 85C-95C on various spec sheets.

I doubt the Titan X will have any issues but it's interesting information.

If the rear of the card behind the memory chip can reach 120C. What do you think the memory chip is at? 80C? The PCB isnt exactly known for its excelent heat transfer.

GDDR3 was a typo, was to be GDDR5.