Title Change - "Two gay men in Texas fined for having sex"

[tcsenter]

<< Of new infections among men in the United States, CDC estimates that approximately 60 percent of men were infected through homosexual sex, 25 percent through injection drug use, and 15 percent through heterosexual sex. >>

Yeah, we've seen this 'smoothing' over before. Remember the Los Angeles county study which was widely used by pro-homo groups to "debunk" AIDS as a gay disease, the study which showed that hispanic heterosexual women were (at that time) the fast growing risk group for HIV? Guess where they were getting it from? Yep, from their bi-sexual partners or partners who were IV drug users (or both). The pro-homo groups conveniently failed to mention that part, but it was revealed later.

<< That's still a lot of potential partners for you. >>

haha, you're mistaken. I don't have sex with homosexuals or IV drug users, nor with anyone else who would.

You've failed to dispell my statement:

If you're not a homosexual or an IV drug user, and don't have sex with those who are, you're risk of contracting HIV is infinitesimally small. You should worry more about your cholesterol or something.

 

[Lucky]

haha, you're mistaken. I don't have sex with homosexuals or IV drug users, nor with anyone else who would.


Thats what they all say....And what if that GF of yours had sex with a man who had sex with a women who had sex with a man who was raped in prison 10 years ago? How would you know that she didnt have HIV?

 

[HardcoreRobot]

That was a great anecdote tcsenter, although I fail to see anything in your post that is actually supportive of what you claim. A couple testimonials from people that may be as ignorant as you do little to change the fact that HIV does not discriminate who it infects and it is found in hundreds of thousands of people of all sexes and sexual orientation.

 

[Michael]

Luckster's link with the Supreme Court's opinion is very informative reading. It clearly discusses the difference between a right that comes from the Constitution with what people feel to be correct and proper. That's been my issue with many of the argument's made, there isn't a "right" to practice sodomy, so laws prohibiting it are not Unconstitutional (at least at the Federal level - States can add rights in their own Constitutions).

I would vote against such a law, but that's my opinion and I'm one of many voters.

Michael

 

[GasX]

Wouldn't sodomy come under the pursuit of happiness?

I mean jeez, does a quick BJ serve any other purpose?

(Yes, oral sex is sodomy too)

 

[Cyberian]

<< That was a great anecdote tcsenter, although I fail to see anything in your post that is actually supportive of what you claim. A couple testimonials from people that may be as ignorant as you do little to change the fact that HIV does not discriminate who it infects and it is found in hundreds of thousands of people of all sexes and sexual orientation. >>

"Of new infections among men in the United States, CDC estimates that approximately 60 percent of men were infected through homosexual sex, 25 percent through injection drug use, and 15 percent through heterosexual sex. "

 

[HardcoreRobot]

<< "Of new infections among men in the United States, CDC estimates that approximately 60 percent of men were infected through homosexual sex, 25 percent through injection drug use, and 15 percent through heterosexual sex. " >>


First of all, that did not come from tcsenter's post, and second of all that does nothing but support mine. There is no denying that HIV is more prevalent in the homosexual community. This has already been addressed multiple times through the course of this thread, and is the result of many factors. All I am trying to say is that claiming that HIV only effects the gay community and IV drug users is wrong.

Furthermore, as it states in the quote, it is an estimate. In reality it is quite difficult to trace where someone contracted the disease - especially for promiscious people. Because ANYONE can have it, the only possible way of detecting who transmits it is to be tested after every sexual/needle encounter. This clearly is not the case. Im not saying the numbers are incorrect, but dont put too much faith in an estimate of something so difficult to measure.

 

[tcsenter]

<< That was a great anecdote tcsenter, although I fail to see anything in your post that is actually supportive of what you claim. A couple testimonials from people that may be as ignorant as you >>

Yeah, anecdotes from such "ignorant" people as a board certified general surgeon, a registered nurse, and a surgical assistant. Real ignorant folks, especially when they work at a public inner-city trauma center that houses the county's main HIV/AIDs outreach and counseling program, and who have been counseled repeatedly on the risk of contracting HIV and hepatitis from patients by infection control and public health officials. lol!

<< do little to change the fact that HIV does not discriminate who it infects and it is found in hundreds of thousands of people of all sexes and sexual orientation. >>

lol! Well, you could also accurately claim that when a person puts a gun to their head and pulls the trigger, the bullet doesn't discriminate, either. Oddly, your risk of dying from a self-inflicted gun shot wound to the head is ZERO as long as you don't put a gun to your head and pull the trigger. Strange, that.

The issue is risk factors, not whether you CAN contract a disease. I "can" die in a plane crash, but the odds are overwhelmingly against it, which is why I don't worry about flying. Similarly, since the hemophiliacs are all dead and blood products are now screened, the VAST MAJORITY of those who contract HIV are homosexuals, IV drug users, both, or those who have sex with a homosexual (bisexual) or an IV drug user (or both). If you're covering those respects, your risk of contracting HIV is infinitesimally small (statistically insignificant).

But, don't take my word for it, ask the National Insitute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID):

85% of men with HIV are either homosexuals or IV drug users (NIAID).

The vast majority of the 15% who contracted HIV through heterosexual sex have been shown in other studies to be A. lying about past homosexual affairs B. lying about past IV drug use C. Have had a female partner who was an IV drug user (prostitute usually).

The famous case involving the dentist who allegedly infected his patients with HIV is quite instructive. It was ultimately revealed that one of the male patients lied about having two homosexual affairs while he was in college, while the one girl who would end-up testifying on national television before Congress and claimed to be a 'pristine virgin' IN FACT admitted during a video taped interview with police investigators that she had engaged in sexual activity prior to ever going to this dentist, but this was WITHHELD by the judge from the public and jurors during the civil case against the then-dead dentist's estate.

What about women?

75 percent of women were infected through heterosexual sex and 25 percent through injection drug use (NIAID). Hmm, that equals 100%, apparently there are no lesbians with HIV??

Anyway, the Los Angeles county study found similar numbers, with hispanic heterosexual females to be the fastest growing fisk factor, but did NOT reveal the nature of the heterosexual relationship, despite these questions WERE asked and noted. When the results were later scrutinized, it was revealed that the majority of these women responded their heterosexual partners were either bi-sexual men (at some time or another), IV drug users, or both, or the women were prostitutes, but that information was DELIBERATELY withheld from public disclosure. Its authors claimed it was irrelevant, but of course we see that it is entirely relevant to the issue of RISK FACTORS.

The entire "AIDS is not a gay disease" is a propoganda movement, as revealed by Andrew Sullivan in a number of courageous exposes of the militant gay-rights "in your face" movement. Sure, anyone can contract HIV, it just so happens that the vast majority of them are homosexuals, IV drug users, or have had intercourse with those who engaged in these behaviors. Everything is about risk factors, which the militant gay community tries desperately to blur and distort.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

Excuse me, I didnt realize it was all a massive conspiracy to mislead the general heterosexual public into thinking they could actually contract the disease.


<< The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimate that 800,000 to 900,000 U.S. residents are living with HIV infection, one-third of whom are unaware of their infection.(3) >>


One may wonder why 1/3 of people dont know they have the disease. Im willing to be the majority of these people are heterosexual and dont bother to test themselves because people like you tell them they arent at risk.

You talk about RISK FACTORS. Being gay is not a risk factor. Taking IV drugs is not a risk factor. However, unprotected gay sex (which historically has been very common), and sharing needles (also typical of IV drug users) ARE risks. Only recently have we seen that these activities (unprotected sex, and sharing needles) are the biggest risks for transmitting the disease. The high percentage of homosexuals and IV drug users is a testament to our past ignorance of these facts.

 

[tcsenter]

<< Excuse me, I didnt realize it was all a massive conspiracy to mislead the general heterosexual public into thinking they could actually contract the disease. >>

No, its intent is to debunk the "AIDS is a disease of the socially and morally deviant (namely homosexuality)" stereotype, but the statistics prove otherwise:

For Los Angeles County:

Exposure Percent of HIV+

Male-male sexual contact:...71%
Injection Drug Use (IDU):......7%
Male-male contact/IDU:.........6%
Hemophilia/transfusion:........1%
Heterosexual contact:...........5%
Other/undetermined:............9%

Total 99%

Source: Los Angeles County Department of Health Services, HIV Epidemiology Program, Advanced HIV Disease (AIDS) Quarterly Surveillance Summary, issued October 15, 2001, cases reported as of September 30, 2001.

For the State of California:

Exposure Percent of HIV+

Homosexual/Bisexual:........70%
IV Drug User (hetero):.......10%
IV Drug User (homo/bi):......9%
Heterosexual:.....................5%
Blood transfusion:...............1%
Other/undetermined:...........4%

Total 99%

Source: California HIV/AIDS Update, Department of Health Services, Office of AIDS. December, 2000 -- Vol 13, Nos. 1&2

<< One may wonder why 1/3 of people dont know they have the disease. Im willing to be the majority of these people are heterosexual and dont bother to test themselves because people like you tell them they arent at risk. >>

If that were the case, we would have LONG since seen a representative increase in their statistics indicating this to be the case. One could reasonably conclude that the break-down of those who are not yet diagnosed is substantially similar to that of those diagnosed.

<< You talk about RISK FACTORS. Being gay is not a risk factor. Taking IV drugs is not a risk factor. However, unprotected gay sex (which historically has been very common), and sharing needles (also typical of IV drug users) ARE risks. >>

Hey, if you want to split hairs, go ahead. You know, suicidal people aren't at risk of suicide, either, only the ones with pills and guns in the house. Riding in an automobile isn't a risk factor for automobile related injuries, just those riding in the cars that are going to crash. ;-)

<< Only recently have we seen that these activities (unprotected sex, and sharing needles) are the biggest risks for transmitting the disease. The high percentage of homosexuals and IV drug users is a testament to our past ignorance of these facts. >>

Not past ignorance. We've known just about everything needed to prevent the transmission of HIV since about 1983, but the gay community rejected it because they felt it was an intrusion in their 'life-style' or because it would foster a stereotype that would harm their public image (even if true). Ever hear of the gay 'bareback' movement? Still going strong, 20 years after AIDS was discovered.

Apparently, you're not aware that the militant gay-rights community actually LOBBIED vigorously AGAINST the public health community attempting to warn the homosexual population in the early 80's (when AIDs WAS reaching epidemic proportions among gay males), purely out of concern for their public image, resulting in the deaths of millions of gays who would continue to engage in high-risk behavior in ignorance because they were DELIBERATELY not warned or informed of the risks? With militant self-defeating advocates like those within the gay community, who needs neo-fascists to persecute them? They've done an excellent job of exterminating themselves.

They also vehemently fought the proposal to temporarily prohibit gays from donate blood until suitable screening could be developed, leading to the deaths of additional millions who would require blood transfusions (since the tainted blood was primarily coming from them). I suppose if they would have succeeded in temporarily prohibiting gays from donating blood until effective screening could be developed, militant gay organizations would have advocated that gays go donate blood in protest anyway, just that they should lie about their sexual orientation (killing millions of people requiring blood transfusions).

 

[Nefrodite]

since tccenter seems to have conveniently missed my first post on this.. here you go again. blacks are deviants.. and you will see so from the statistics, they make up the majority of new cases. not to mention that tccenter only posted on caifornia? WTF? we have san fransisco which kinda biases things eh? or were you just trying to make a point by coloring the truth?



HIV/AIDS IN THE UNITED STATES
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimate that 800,000 to 900,000 U.S. residents are living with HIV infection, one-third of whom are unaware of their infection.(3,4)


Approximately 40,000 new HIV infections occur each year in the United States, about 70 percent among men and 30 percent among women. Of these newly infected people, half are younger than 25 years of age.(5,6)


Of new infections among men in the United States, CDC estimates that approximately 60 percent of men were infected through homosexual sex, 25 percent through injection drug use, and 15 percent through heterosexual sex. Of newly infected men, approximately 50 percent are black, 30 percent are white, 20 percent are Hispanic, and a small percentage are members of other racial/ethnic groups.(6)


Of new infections among women in the United States, CDC estimates that approximately 75 percent of women were infected through heterosexual sex and 25 percent through injection drug use. Of newly infected women, approximately 64 percent are black, 18 percent are white, 18 percent are Hispanic, and a small percentage are members of other racial/ethnic groups.(6)


In the United States, 774,467 cases of AIDS had been reported to the CDC through December 31, 2000.(3)


The estimated number of new adult/adolescent AIDS cases diagnosed in the United States was 49,691 in 1997, 42,955 in 1998, and 41,680 in 1999.(3)


In 2000, 41,960 new cases of AIDS in adults/adolescents were reported in the United States. In the same year, 196 new pediatric (<13 years old) AIDS cases were reported.(3)


The rate of adult/adolescent AIDS cases reported in the United States in 2000 (per 100,000 population) was 74.2 among blacks, 30.4 among Hispanics, 12.7 among American Indians/Alaska Natives, 7.9 among whites, and 4.3 among Asians/Pacific Islanders.(3)


From 1985 to 2000, the proportion of adult/adolescent AIDS cases in the United States reported in women increased from 7 percent to 25 percent.(3)


As of the end of 2000, an estimated 322,685 people in the United States were living with AIDS.(5)


As of December 31, 2000, 448,060 deaths among people with AIDS had been reported to the CDC.(3) AIDS is now the fifth leading cause of death in the United States among people aged 25 to 44, and is the leading cause of death for black men in this age group. Among black women in this age group, HIV ranks third.(7)


The estimated annual number of AIDS-related deaths in the United States fell approximately 67 percent from 1995 to 1999, from 50,877 deaths in 1995 to 16,767 deaths in 1999.(3)


Of the estimated 16,767 AIDS-related deaths in the United States in 1999, approximately 50 percent were among blacks, 30 percent among whites, 18 percent among Hispanics, and less than 1 percent among Asians/Pacific Islanders and American Indians/Alaska Natives.(3)

HIV/AIDS Statistics

HIV/AIDS WORLDWIDE
As of the end of 2000, an estimated 36.1 million people worldwide ? 34.7 million adults and 1.4 million children younger than 15 years ? were living with HIV/AIDS. More than 70 percent of these people (25.3 million) live in Sub-Saharan Africa; another 16 percent (5.8 million) live in South and Southeast Asia.(1)


Worldwide, approximately one in every 100 adults aged 15 to 49 is HIV-infected. In Sub-Saharan Africa, about 8.8 percent of all adults in this age group are HIV-infected. In 16 African countries, the prevalence of HIV infection among adults aged 15 to 49 exceeds 10 percent.(1,2)


Approximately 47 percent of adults living with HIV/AIDS worldwide are women.(1)


An estimated 5.3 million new HIV infections occurred worldwide during 2000; that is, about 15,000 infections each day. More than 95 percent of these new infections occurred in developing countries.(1)


In 2000, more than 6,500 young people aged 15 to 24 became infected with HIV every day ? that is, about five every minute.(1)


Through 2000, cumulative HIV/AIDS-associated deaths worldwide numbered approximately 21.8 million ? 17.5 million adults and 4.3 million children younger than 15 years.(1)


In 2000 alone, HIV/AIDS-associated illnesses caused the deaths of approximately 3 million people worldwide, including an estimated 500,000 children younger than 15 years.(1)


An estimated 13.2 million children younger than age 15 had lost their mothers or both parents by the end of 1999.(2)


Worldwide, more than 80 percent of all adult HIV infections have resulted from heterosexual intercourse.(1,2)


Mother-to-child (vertical) transmission has accounted for more than 90 percent of all HIV infections worldwide in infants and children.(1,2)
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/aidsstat.htm

 

[tcsenter]

<< not to mention that tccenter only posted on caifornia? WTF? we have san fransisco which kinda biases things eh? or were you just trying to make a point by coloring the truth? >>

lol! This only proves my point. Not only did I include statistics for LOS ANGELES COUNTY seperately just to avoid your predictable criticism, but you're statement about San Francisco VALIDATES my argument and discredits yours. If AIDS wasn't primarily a homosexual disease, why would San Francisco "bias" things? Is it because of the fog? lol! I'm interested in how you'll try to weasle your way out of the corner you just painted yourself into.

Especially considering that San Francisco should be able to claim the LOWEST rates of homosexual AIDS due to the fact that its population, both gay and straight, has been the subject of INTENSE HIV education and awareness longer than any other city.

And don't try your ad hominem attacks, there is nothing about being black that would cause one to get AIDS. Being black isn't a high risk factor. However, being a black IV DRUG USER or HOMOSEXUAL, or a black who has sex with those who are, is a high risk factor. No matter how you want to slice it, it ALWAYS BOILS DOWN TO:

- Homosexual
- IV drug user
- Both
- Having sex with a homosexual
- Having sex with an IV drug user
- Both

Those are the common risk factors within ANY group. Blacks who are not homosexuals, don't use IV drugs or sleep with those who do have little to worry about, just like hispanics or whites.

 

[Nefrodite]

lol! This only proves my point. Not only did I include statistics for LOS ANGELES COUNTY seperately just to avoid your predictable criticism, but you're statement about San Francisco VALIDATES my argument and discredits yours. If AIDS wasn't primarily a homosexual disease, why would San Francisco "bias" things? Is it because of the fog? lol! I'm interested in how you'll try to weasle your way out of the corner you just painted yourself into.

well it didn't work at all since the us rates are lower then california.

However, being a black IV DRUG USER or HOMOSEXUAL, or a black who has sex with those who are, is a high risk factor.

as for invalidating. your assuming that all homosexuals are promiscous like how i'm assuming that all blacks are promiscous.

 

[tcsenter]

<< well it didn't work at all since the us rates are lower then california >>

The national statistics do not even attempt to clarify the TRUE NATURE of the "heterosexual" relationship. If you're sleeping with a homosexual (bisexual) or an IV drug user, you might as well be engaging in those behaviors yourself. In addition, the national statistics include 2700+ suburban and rural counties where IV drug abuse is extremely low.

<< as for invalidating. your assuming that all homosexuals are promiscous like how i'm assuming that all blacks are promiscous. >>

I'm assuming nothing. I'm looking at the numbers.

 

[shazbot]

<<
Heterosexual people are much more monogamous, have protected sex much more often, and very rarely engage in anal sex. >>



Lol, you obviously don't live in a big city. Heterosexuals are no more monogamous than homosexuals. Altho the part about anal sex does somewhat apply. Its something you wana try a few times, but just leave it at that.

 

[Nefrodite]

I'm assuming nothing. I'm looking at the numbers

so am i, whats your point?

 

[jthsmak]

No one who has suggested outlawing sodomy has given a means for regulating it. What are you gonna use, the honor system?

 

[Buzzman151]

wtf.... even though i'm in the straigh and narrow.... that i freak'n retarded.... they should be able to pretty much whatever the hell the please in "the comfort of their onw homes" So is some cop gonna come bust in my room when my girlfriend and I are screw'n around??????? :|