To add HP or just do a restore.

[Pulsar]

My first car was a red 86 trans-am. Great condition, T-tops, I loved that car. It had a little bit of pep, but not a ton.

Later, I bought a 94 Z-28 (1 year old at the time). I kept my first car, but damn did that Z-28 move.

Now, I'm looking at doing a restore of the Trans-Am. But what's eating me is whether I should do a straight restore, or whether I can turn the car into a true sports car with 400-450 horsepower and have some fun.

I'm a little worried it's the wrong platform - with the T-tops the car is already not the stiffest in the world. So should I just restore the thing to drive for fun once in a while, then buy an old beat-up Z-28 I can drop a supercharger on for the horsepower I want?

I love my first car, but driving that Z-28 was a blast.

 

[Throckmorton]

True sports car. Turn it into KITT. Aren't there stiffeners you can weld on? Roll cage?

 

[DietDrThunder]

I had an '84 Camaro Berlinetta with a 305 c.i. V8 that had a whopping 150 h.p. If I were to restore one, I'd probably install the 300 h.p. V6 that the current Camaro has. A great combination of h.p. and fuel economy.

 

[Pulsar]

True sports car. Turn it into KITT. Aren't there stiffeners you can weld on? Roll cage?

There /may/ be. I guess in the end if I want to do a real horsepower increase I'm going to have to take it someone professional. I originally had the block bored out and installed oversize pistons. It was fun, but you could stick your finger between the T-top and car frame and feel the frame twist when you hit the gas. I'm quite certain I was only around 280 horsepower. Taking it up to 400+ would probably destroy the frame. If stiffeners have to be welded in, the suspension will probably have to be upped too, and now I'm at the point where it's a project I just don't have time for.

Looks like i have to call around and get pricing on having someone do it for me. 3 young kids does not allow for a car project no matter how much I want it to.

 

[Ronstang]

Don't worry about the T-Tops. Do some research and you should be able to find some body stiffening kits for that year. You might be able to install some or parts of some of them by yourself but unless you have a frame machine and a welder I would find a good frame shop to install the weld in sub frame connectors. DO NOT go with the bolt in type of sub frame connectors. The welded in ones are the only acceptable option...hence the frame shop. I do install my own weld in sub frame connectors but I do it only to a completely stripped chassis that I send to the frame shop first to make sure it is straight.

 

[nerp]

I'd say restore it, that way it will be a true classic and actually worth something. Get a nova or something and drop in a crate engine for some fun.

 

[Pulsar]

I'm not sure an 86 TA will ever be worth anything, except to me because of my memories of that car. SO many firsts

 

[nerp]

You'd be surprised. Prices on the newer Thunderbirds are increasing. Hell, the Plymouth Prowler is considered a collectible. And that's a heap of crap.

 

[mwmorph]

I'm not sure an 86 TA will ever be worth anything, except to me because of my memories of that car. SO many firsts

Well, nostalgia is just want middle aged men have lived through twice so at some point, any cool car for the era is going to be a classic.

I'd personally say do a restomod and go for performance. Just remember to keep the original parts in as good a shape as possible in storage. You've still got a decade at least before it becomes a classic and future you can then toy with the question of whether you should restore your car to original specs.

 

[Railgun]

I had an 87 Firebird way back when...man that thing was a hunk 'o junk, but I was kind partial to that thing too. For a mid-80s GM car, it was at least decent looking, interior wasn't half bad and, again, for a GM car, or American car for that matter, handled relatively well.

They can be made to become a better all-rounder for sure. At 3400 pounds, not the lightest thing ever, but a far cry from the 3800 pounds of the current generation Camaro and you can always remove weight.

Now, unless you're looking to go into pro street drags or start flinging it around Road America, I wouldn't worry too much about how stiff the chassis is. You can tighten that up too.

The aftermarket should be huge for that thing and dropping in a more potent powerplant is easy.

Now, when you say restore, to what extent are we talking? Let's see some pics to see what kind of condition it's in to start. Maybe a better decision can be made. If the thing is ready to dump its doors from rust, that's one thing.

 

[skipsneeky2]

I had an '84 Camaro Berlinetta with a 305 c.i. V8 that had a whopping 150 h.p. If I were to restore one, I'd probably install the 300 h.p. V6 that the current Camaro has. A great combination of h.p. and fuel economy.

Man,did the 1980s suck for performance.

My 06 taurus with the vulcan 3.0 v6 has 150hp and apparently that is just outdated as well.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

pics or this thread is fail.

as Railgun said... what kind of shape is this thing in to begin with?

 

[mwmorph]

Man,did the 1980s suck for performance.

My 06 taurus with the vulcan 3.0 v6 has 150hp and apparently that is just outdated as well.

We truly are living in the golden age of the automobile. Even the legendary GNX, SHO, and Supra TT nameplates are nothing more than adequate from a power standpoint, where you can buy many a 2 door rear drive coupe or 4 door front drive family sedan for under the mean transaction price ($28k or so) that can outrun a Ferrari 308GTB while getting near as makes no difference 30mpg on the highway. You can get a $75,000 car that will give a Ferrari F40 a run for its money in every performance dynamic.

Just in the last 10 years for example, the Mustang has almost gained 155hp while getting marginally better fuel economy while the current crop of $25K RWD coupes would have been unthinkable at a time when your only choices for sporty low cost 2 doors were FWD small Japanese imports or a Mustang/Camaro with terrible engines.

 

[skipsneeky2]

We truly are living in the golden age of the automobile. Even the legendary GNX, SHO, and Supra TT nameplates are nothing more than adequate from a power standpoint, where you can buy many a 2 door rear drive coupe or 4 door front drive family sedan for under the mean transaction price ($28k or so) that can outrun a Ferrari 308GTB while getting near as makes no difference 30mpg on the highway. You can get a $75,000 car that will give a Ferrari F40 a run for its money in every performance dynamic.

Just in the last 10 years for example, the Mustang has almost gained 155hp while getting marginally better fuel economy while the current crop of $25K RWD coupes would have been unthinkable at a time when your only choices for sporty low cost 2 doors were FWD small Japanese imports or a Mustang/Camaro with terrible engines.

Yup,we are moving on up in the tech and incredible efficiency,what is more incredible that in 1962 the mopar slant 6 was one of the first motors to have 150hp while pulling 20mpg from a one barrel carb being one of the most fuel efficient cars of its time ,i have owned quite a few slant 6 motor powered cars from a 65 dart to a 74 swinger and these guys are slow but 150hp today is just a drop in the hat for performance with incredible fuel efficiency.

 

[yottabit]

You could just buy a decent crate motor and add some supporting mods and have a really great fun car

 

[exdeath]

Even the legendary GNX, SHO, and Supra TT nameplates are nothing more than adequate from a power standpoint

Heh false.

Those cars aren't spectacular stock granted, but there are only a handful of modern cars to this day that can be as easily and cheaply modded to the power levels those cars readily attain without trying WHILE staying in one piece till the end of time.

I'll leave the "Supra vs Lambo" Youtube search as a viewer exercise.

 

[mwmorph]

Heh false.

Those cars aren't spectacular stock granted, but there are only a handful of modern cars to this day that can be as easily and cheaply modded to the power levels those cars readily attain without trying WHILE staying in one piece till the end of time.

I'll leave the "Supra vs Lambo" Youtube search as a viewer exercise.

Well, of course we are talking about stock.

Let me turn that argument on you for a second though, Peak power is almost never a true indication of performance on turbo cars like that. When you have a 3L trying to spin something like a GT4294, you'll end up with a dyno queen instead of anything really drivable.

Assuming we're talking about stock block and heads, swapping the turbo only we're looking at Peter Blach's 950WHP or so record (IIRC, used to be a huge Supra fan until they became outrageously overpriced after the F&F movies).

To be honest though, that's a suicide run on 36psi boost (spinning a 77mm compressor) and the turbos aren't going to spin up until after 5k rpms on that 7k rpm redline. You get 2000rpm of actual play time and at least 3000-3500rpm of making somewhere near 175 ft/lbs of torque, not to mention you lose all that boost on every shift.

It's like having a NTW-20 Anti materiel rifle with only the parts to chamber 20x110. It's cool that you can defeat low flying aircraft, but whats the point if you can't use it?

You can do somewhere around 500-600hp safely, but unless you're running more like high 400s to low 500s and spraying NOS at low rpms to spool the turbo, you're still going to have quite a bit of lag. That's nothing to sneeze at, but it becomes more complex and maintenance heavy then to have a engine run like how you want it all the time.

For cheaply and easily if you're interested in 1/4 mile and rolling start drag races, you could just as easily get a 500CI 1970-72 Cadillac Eldorado block (around $500 on car-part.com), build it up using good value performance parts and drop it in a donor chasis (G Bodys are my favorite, a 83 500CI Malibu Wagon...) for and make stable, flat torque as well as maybe 600hp.

You get much more area under the curve and it won't cost you on average what seems like $30k nowadays. That and if you ever get bored of it, slap on a roots or twin screw to scare the neighborhood kids.

There is no replacement for displacement, unless you have a very good roots or twin screw.

Also, stock for stock, a like new condition, less than 30k miles or so Supra is pushing $40k now and I have no idea how much a GNX costs (edit: found one on eBay for $65K with 10 miles, so maybe $45 or $50 for a pristine low mileage example?). Kick in a little bit more and you could have a base Corvette with the discounts GM is running. The LSx series have never been known to be unresponsive to mods.

 

[exdeath]

Can talk about power band and spool lag and all that, it doesn't really mean much in practice. If the car walks the other car and wins, does it matter what RPM boost kicks in?

I'd never buy a base Corvette. I'd get a used Z06 for that $40k and throw H/C at it, since you can't buy a new Supra anyway.

But I know what you are trying to say. Faster or not, it's hard to justify $40k on a 20 year old Toyota with 150,000 miles. It's also hard to resist the allure of having the latest newest shiniest something else on the block instead since the average driver on the street wont know what your Supra is or be envious of it.

Then again when I look I see Supra TT 6 spds going for $25-30k now and then.

Not everyone has the time, money, space to build a car from scratch. There are very few ready to drive complete production cars out there you can spend a little over $5k on and get an honest 600 RWHP daily, let alone cars that already did it 20+ years ago (legit 600 WHP, not just throwing on a 300 shot until it blows). While the LS blocks can do it, it would cost 5 times as much due to the Corvette tax on the same parts, diminishing your price argument.

Sadly the new Camaro is too popular for it's own good such that the Corvette tax is making it's way to the Camaro also. F bodies didn't cost anywhere near as much to mod even when they were new. Not sure why a Procharger in a 2010+ box costs 3 times as much as one in a 2001 box...

 

[exdeath]

There is no replacement for displacement, unless you have a very good roots or twin screw.

Heh false. You can put a twin screw on a 10L engine just as easily as you can on a 2L engine :awe:

I want a 5.8L block for that reason. There is only so much boost you can cram into a limited space on a given fuel octane. When you hit that limit, only more cubic inches and cubic inches alone will solve the problem.

 

[Pulsar]

Ok, ok, pictures will be coming once I'm up north with it. I think we'll move it into the garage when we're up there and give it a good cleaning. It's in good shape externally. Internally, it needs new front seats (I wore the old ones out) and a new center console. Give me a week and I'll append them to this thread, though don't expect updates any time soon as far as the actual restoring goes. I don't have the money right now to buy a new engine for the thing.

 

[SuperSix]

And don't forget that the GNX/GN/Etc HP ratings were RWHP to appease anxious insurance companies - and 100+ more HP can be had with very simple mods.

Exdeath said it above, there is indeed a replacement for displacement - look at the slew of new cars with turbos, and there will be many, many more factory turbocharged cars coming out in the next few years.

 

[exdeath]

Nope, I said the opposite. When boost is maxed out on the bet fuel available, you can always add cubes. There is no replacement for displacement. You can put turbos on big engines too.