To Anyone Who Loved Everquest- or Challenging MMO's

[Oakenfold]

I'm not sure i understand the venom/grudge holding that is going on towards Brad.

We're basing our expectations of future projects off past performance. This is not a grudge or venom. It's a logical approach to assessing one's ability to manage projects (i.e., based off past performance).

 

[laezyre]

Okay, Brad.

LOL, I'm not brad. I took a Basic programming course in high school over 20 years ago. I'm medical, but I do like to build home computers. I loved EQ1 and think it's worth a small donation to help the dev team have some independence from corporate influence. I'm also going to donate a small amount to Richard Garriet's new game, Shroud of the Avatar. I loved the Ultima series as a kid.

 

[Koslov_]

What they should do is a real Ultima Online sequel with 2014 tech behind in. Still 2D isometric like Diablo3. 3D is so overrated

 

[laezyre]

Wait, you want the game in 2D instead of 3D?

 

[Dumac]

LOL, I'm not brad. I took a Basic programming course in high school over 20 years ago. I'm medical, but I do like to build home computers. I loved EQ1 and think it's worth a small donation to help the dev team have some independence from corporate influence. I'm also going to donate a small amount to Richard Garriet's new game, Shroud of the Avatar. I loved the Ultima series as a kid.

lol I was just joking. I'm not donating, but the game is on my radar now.

 

[MiataNC]

I am a sucker for EQ1, and while I know you can never go back and recapture the magic of your first MMO, I am idealistic enough to back the project.

 

[Midwayman]

Might as well flush your money down the toilet. Long time off for a game that aims to be super niche.

 

[laezyre]

If it's a good MMO with some refreshing old school challenges, it won't be a niche only game. I'm sure that many people are sick of the WoW clones and easy mode MMO's. I'm sick of feeling like I'm playing a solo game every time I play an MMO. Most have limited need for grouping or social interactions. You don't have to worry about your game reputation, so people do stupid stuff. In EQ1 your rep was everything. You had nowhere to hide from your bad behavior or poor skills. On the other hand, if you were a skilled player with good behavior, you could get a group and/guild easily. You also made friends in EQ1 that improved the experience and kept you playing. Some people met in RL and got married.
I miss much of that in today's impersonal WoW clones.

 

[Midwayman]

If it's a good MMO with some refreshing old school challenges, it won't be a niche only game. I'm sure that many people are sick of the WoW clones and easy mode MMO's. I'm sick of feeling like I'm playing a solo game every time I play an MMO. Most have limited need for grouping or social interactions. You don't have to worry about your game reputation, so people do stupid stuff. In EQ1 your rep was everything. You had nowhere to hide from your bad behavior or poor skills. On the other hand, if you were a skilled player with good behavior, you could get a group and/guild easily. You also made friends in EQ1 that improved the experience and kept you playing. Some people met in RL and got married.
I miss much of that in today's impersonal WoW clones.

Everything you say stinks of elitism and exactly why it will be a niche game. That's fine as niche gamers need to be served too. We just don't need to pretend that its what the mainstream is calling out for.

 

[laezyre]

Everything you say stinks of elitism and exactly why it will be a niche game. That's fine as niche gamers need to be served too. We just don't need to pretend that its what the mainstream is calling out for.

Can you please point out the "elitism." I like challenging MMO's with more social interaction. How is that elitist?

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Everything you say stinks of elitism and exactly why it will be a niche game. That's fine as niche gamers need to be served too. We just don't need to pretend that its what the mainstream is calling out for.

EQ had sections of the game for the elite raiders and plenty for casuals to do.

The problem, at least so it appears, with games that don't have elite raiding, is that they simply chop off the raiding, and the rest of it is the same, and you end up with casuals simply able to do everything. So it's really more a matter of people not wanting anything in the game that they themselves cannot achieve. Or so it seems.

I should point out that I have never been in even a top 20 EQ guild and was only in a guild that could even do current raids for 12 months out of 10 years playing. But just having that bar set that high, whether I had a reasonable chance to reach it, left something to aim at.

 

[laezyre]

If by elitist, he means high tier raiding, I think most MMO's need that. You have to have something to keep the hard core people playing. It also helps to keep the pie in the sky for casual players to reach for. Once people do the same content over and over again with their 4th alt, it gets pretty boring. They need to manage mudflation, however. That is something that the Pantheon dev team promised to do.

 

[MiataNC]

I miss MMOs with clearly defined roles and class dependency.

For example Crowd Control (eg EQ Enchanter) has been dropped from all modern MMOs. Stun, Mesmerize, Knockdown, etc. has been given to just about every class in one way or another. DPS and AOE spamming has replaced skill and strategy in most MMO encounters.

Pantheon promises to bring these types of roles back. I won't hold my breath, but I am willing to hope for the best.

 

[thm1223]

As much as I'd love an MMORPG that matches what Everquest was in present times, I don't think I'd ever have the hours to dedicate to it. And I'm also of the mind that Everquest was so great because of the period in which it existed. Today's gaming market is vastly different, but perhaps this can serve as a pendulum swing away from twitchier MMOs and back to the genre's roots.

 

[Blintok]

looks like many of us were in EQ in its glory days. I started 2wks after it launched.

Some of the play mechanics in that game were hiliarious at times. TRAIN TO ZONE. One time sitting behind "safe tree" in Cazic Thule and watching dozens upon dozens of mobs go streaming by.

My first character discovering a new area off of the Commonlands (Nektulos Forest) wandering in and looking around not far from zone in just admiring and taking in the wonder of a new zone. Only to get 'Loading Please Wait" as a wandering Dark Elf guard killed me. Was terrified to go in there for months after.

There was the first time..upon hearing about these mysterious places. Making the epic journey from Freeport to Felwithe and ultimately Crushbone.

there was some of the bad play mechanics too, like not being able to do anything until you found someone to bind your soul to the new area.

but

Do not think you can recreate that type of game again. Most players these days just wont sit for hours camping a certain spawn..
I recall one EARLY sunday lucking out just getting IN to a J-boots group. (Najena - Drelzna) Sat in that room from like 6am to 11pm and just by luck i did get those boots)

I just do not have time or will to sit in a game for over 12hrs with barely time for bathroom or food breaks these days. Not sure many others would either.

Most groups in games these days are of the "slam - bamm - thank you maam" type. They group. Say almost nothing. Never sit for one second. Rush around getting experience and or loot then /leave group. Most pick up groups are like that. May as well be playing with NPC.

remember the early days of actually getting on waiting lists for camps in various zones? was fun at the time as there was not much else mmog to play and EQ was new.

 

[Blintok]

and who remembers reading the fabled epic "Burned Woods" story? That was hilarious

http://ancarett.com/eqhumour.html

 

[laezyre]

Blintok,
I echo your thoughts mostly. I was young and had no kids at the time I played EQ for hours at a time. My wife still hates that game. I can't put in that kind of time consistently. However, your description of the modern day MMO is very accurate. I hate that and have no desire to play a game like that now. Hopefully there will be some kind of middle ground with good social interaction, but no requirement to give up all your free time either. Most former EQ players probably are in a much different place now as well.

 

[Dumac]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U2cZ2cEY1Q

This whole playlist is giving me nostalgia

 

[HumblePie]

FFS,

Anyone with fond love of EQ only loves it because it was really the ONLY GAME OUT THERE. The drudgery of the game and forced cooperation only worked for EQ because there was really nothing else for gamers who wanted a 3D mmorpg to turn to. You either played it and enjoyed what it was or you didn't play it. There were more then enough people (usually) to get the cooperation needed to succeed.

Now that the market has expanded, games that force cooperation the scale of which EQ used to do will fail miserably into a niche game. There are plenty out there RIGHT NOW that are massively hard and force cooperation and drudgery. There is plenty to choose from, trust me, and they are all small niche based games that fail hardcore for anyone that doesn't have a dedicated circle of friends that can all play together at a consistent time frame for hours a day for the next few years. Some people can get that together, and some can't. The main point being elitist and showing off to others who can't do that much *work* what their circle of friends is capable of. Only most of those hardcore mmorpg players really learn is that without the casual players also wanting to play the game, there is no one to be elitist towards and show how big your epeen is.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

FFS,

Anyone with fond love of EQ only loves it because it was really the ONLY GAME OUT THERE. The drudgery of the game and forced cooperation only worked for EQ because there was really nothing else for gamers who wanted a 3D mmorpg to turn to. You either played it and enjoyed what it was or you didn't play it. There were more then enough people (usually) to get the cooperation needed to succeed.

Now that the market has expanded, games that force cooperation the scale of which EQ used to do will fail miserably into a niche game. There are plenty out there RIGHT NOW that are massively hard and force cooperation and drudgery. There is plenty to choose from, trust me, and they are all small niche based games that fail hardcore for anyone that doesn't have a dedicated circle of friends that can all play together at a consistent time frame for hours a day for the next few years. Some people can get that together, and some can't. The main point being elitist and showing off to others who can't do that much *work* what their circle of friends is capable of. Only most of those hardcore mmorpg players really learn is that without the casual players also wanting to play the game, there is no one to be elitist towards and show how big your epeen is.

I spent more time soloing, and later moloing (using your mercenary NPC assistant, somewhat like SW TOR now) than anything else. Cooperation was never forced except for the tougher group areas and raiding, and I'm not sure what to say if someone expects to get top gear solo. BTW, do all the people who keep calling EQ a niche game know anything about what it evolved into later, or are they thinking back to 1999 only?

That said, as more games became available, they simply didn't get it right. A game like this should be heavily gear based and putting in more time and/or effort and/or cooperation with others should reward you compared to the next guy.

 

[laezyre]

I agree that the same exact time sinks won't work well in todays MMO's. I'm not sure that is what Pantheon will be about. Encouraging grouping and social interaction, doesn't mean there has to be huge time sinks everywhere. At least I hope not.

 

[asteldian]

People seem to assume it is going to go back to EQ1 style tedium. They have clearly stated bringing back the challenge is not the same as bringing back long ass spawn times.

The game is going to be a niche game without a doubt - they even said that. But there is nothing wrong with that.

I don't think EQ1 was awesome because of nostalgia, I love it because more or less every game since then has been shit and a race to the end for where the game apparently begins.

As for those concerned because of Brad's last venture....yeah, it was a failure, yet if you were lucky enough to have a system that could cope with the terrible coding, it was still the best gameplay in an MMO to date. Taking the principles of EQ1, removing the tedium and making very indiidual classes with great mechanics. The only reason I eventually quit the game was because I knew nothing new was realistically coming out, so once I got to the end (which was a very enjoyable journey) I called it a day (actually I did it with a couple other chars too first). So a game that was unsuccessful managed to keep my attention for 18 months - 2 years. No other MMO has managed that so far

So yeah, Vanguard failed to deliver, yet if Brad's turds can offer a gameplay experience superior to other games spending $100s of millions to try and find the next gold nugget, heck sign me up. In fact, the game managed to last what, 5 years before going F2P? and is only closing now in its 7th? Not bad for a game famously known for its failings.

I can only afford $100 atm, but given that I can afford it, I threw it in, I won't miss the money now and if the game does release I already have a copy for me and the wife as well as a few other perks

 

[MeldarthX]

Those comparing this to Vanguard, remember VG got fucked over hard. First by Microsoft, then again by SOE.

Most don't even know the half of it. I was a beta tester for Vanguard; I loved Vanguard as it was first game that actually felt like home after leaving EQ.

MS wanted to put VG out in an alpha state. *fuck sake did they learn nothing from their MMOs which were awesome* Brad said no; so MS pulled out as publisher and cut their loses. So Brad swallowed his pride and went to SOE; so said yep will fund you and publish you.

Forward to beta; they needed 6 more months about 1 million dollars to polish the game......SOE said no; we'll publish now. Game wasn't broken; but it wasn't finished at all. Brad fought and lost. Then SOE bought Vanguard and most of the team left because of the treatment; that's why Vanguard failed sadly.

It had the best damn crafting to date.....I miss Vanguard....

This I am pledging to

 

[HumblePie]

I spent more time soloing, and later moloing (using your mercenary NPC assistant, somewhat like SW TOR now) than anything else. Cooperation was never forced except for the tougher group areas and raiding, and I'm not sure what to say if someone expects to get top gear solo. BTW, do all the people who keep calling EQ a niche game know anything about what it evolved into later, or are they thinking back to 1999 only?

That said, as more games became available, they simply didn't get it right. A game like this should be heavily gear based and putting in more time and/or effort and/or cooperation with others should reward you compared to the next guy.

The game was a shell of it's former self once other bigger titles started coming out. It never regained the playerbase again. I started playing in Phase 1 Beta and I still have the CD's from back then to prove it.

The game had massive stupidity involved in game design that had nothing to do with "challenging" and everything to do with being a massive timesink. Yay for hour long boat rides. Because that's fun!... not.

Most of what was "challenging" was just stupidity. Like staring at your spell book to recover. That was completely stupid and finally removed. It didn't make the game a "challenge" but gave it a major annoyance instead. And originally the high end "raids" were nothing more than a lemming fest. Trains were also stupid from a design standpoint. They did add in an element of danger to zones which is true, but it was more a griefing tool that anything else.

Once SOE, realized they were hemorrhaging player accounts, they looked into the reasons why people were willing to jump ship from a game they had years of investment into for something completely different. All the reasons were because of all the ridiculously asinine game elements that I described above and much more. None of those elements made a game fun at all. They only had a player base because for a long time they were the only kid on the block to play with. Which is why they finally started removing all that stupid shit they had designed in the game.

 

[Thebobo]

Has anyone here seen my corpse?

http://justsomething.co/the-39-funniest-animal-photobombs-of-all-time/