To: Atheists/Agnostics etc.

[DrPizza]

Most abundant element in the Universe? Hydrogen. Most abundant element in our bodies? Hydrogen. Second most abundant element in the Universe: Helium, it's inert, so doesn't form chemical bonds. Third most abundant element in the universe? Oxygen. Third most abundant element in human bodies? Oxygen. Fourth most abundant element in the universe? Carbon. Fourth most abundant element in humans? Carbon. Fifth? Nitrogen, nitrogen. Element capable of forming the most different types of molecules? Carbon. We're based on Carbon.

Are we special? Is there something magical about us? I'd think so - if we were made out of some rare molecules formed from Tungsten and Bismuth. We're rather ordinary.

Was the universe created for us? Let's see... there are MOUNTAINS of evidence that the Universe is roughly 13.75 billion years old. By roughly, it's between 13.7 and 13.8 billion years old. How long have humans been in existence? Let's say 2.2 million years for recognizable humans - 250k years for homo sapiens. So, for more than 99.998% of the existence of the Universe, there were no humans. God is one hell of a procrastinator. Try using that excuse the next time you're late with a college assignment. "Sorry, professor, my Bible says I was made in God's image. He procrastinated for more than 99.998% of all existence before he got around to making humans - whom he allegedly created the Universe for. I only procrastinated for about 2 weeks before starting my paper. It's God's fault."

 

[Acanthus]

What keeps you going ? What is your hope for your current life ?

I am honestly not trying to start any kind of argument, I legitimately want to know what it is that you look forward to.

If there is no God, if there is nothing after death, if there is no right/wrong determined by a higher power etc. Then, to be blunt, what keeps you from ending it all right now ?


I've had my share of heartache, and I see many many more people with far bigger struggles and troubles.

If I was completely sold on there being no God or afterlife, I sincerly believe I would have put a gun to my head long ago.

Everyone will agree that we take nothing with us when we die. None of our wealth, posessions or even loved ones.

So what is keeping you going ? What do you put your hope into ?

Been thinking about how depressing that would be, and really wanted to hear some feedback.

You have to live with the knowledge that life is very precious, because when it is over there is nothingness. I live by the two principles of Neil Degrasse Tyson.

1. Know more than I did yesterday.
2. Do what I can to lessen human suffering.

If I accomplish those two goals every day, I feel fulfilled.

 

[Jeff7]

You have to live with the knowledge that life is very precious, because when it is over there is nothingness. I live by the two principles of Neil Degrasse Tyson.

1. Know more than I did yesterday.
2. Do what I can to lessen human suffering.

If I accomplish those two goals every day, I feel fulfilled.

"The Lord Jehovah has given unto you these fifteen.....ten.....TWO commandments!'

 

[DaveSimmons]

And the stars after the earth? How the fuck did that happen?

Good point. Without its star the Earth would be a snowball.

Maybe it was a microwave dinner type Creation:

- Take one frozen planet
- Add Sun lamp
- Bake at 72 degrees for one day until ready
- Add Humans to taste

After all, G-d is a bachelor.

 

[Gibsons]

Ahahaha I knew this was coming!

Boy oh boy, you're reaching... big time. So you mean that those who killed Jesus read that part in Isaiah, pretended to hate him, and killed him? All those people played along?

LOL!

No, not at all.

 

[Gibsons]

Here's something else - if the Bible was divinely inspired, surely there must be something in the Bible that speaks of some truth that was later discovered via science. Name one thing in the Bible that was later found out to be true.

This is something I wondered about. Why didn't the bible tell us about molecules and photons? DNA and the bent, polar nature of water? Instead of all the begats and slaying and smiting and concubines.

 

[JackBurton]

Ummm, thats why I said that the rest was batshit insane.

I know, just tacking on. Point is, the creation story is like a fairy tale but it doesn't stop these nut jobs from trying to sell it. Now that's insane.

 

[JackBurton]

Good point. Without its star the Earth would be a snowball.

Maybe it was a microwave dinner type Creation:

- Take one frozen planet
- Add Sun lamp
- Bake at 72 degrees for one day until ready
- Add Humans to taste

After all, G-d is a bachelor.

Even more fucked up, he apparently created water and vegitation even before creating the stars. But that's understandable, water and grass is a lot harder to create than little tiny lights in the sky. I mean how hard can that be? Now let me concentrate on making this tree.

 

[Jeff7]

Good point. Without its star the Earth would be a snowball.

Maybe it was a microwave dinner type Creation:

- Take one frozen planet
- Add Sun lamp
- Bake at 72 degrees for one day until ready
- Add Humans to taste

After all, G-d is a bachelor.

Seems it's very slightly overdone though. The crispy crust is cracked all over the place, and it occasionally breaks and oozes out the superheated gooey insides.

Even more fucked up, he apparently created water and vegitation even before creating the stars. But that's understandable, water and grass is a lot harder to create than little tiny lights in the sky. I mean how hard can that be? Now let me concentrate on making this tree.

Here's another thought: Maybe God created us by accident. Stargate: The Zero Point Module. It's described as a "universe in a bottle," from which they draw energy.

Maybe we're just in one of those bottles - the beings that created it weren't interested, or even really aware that they made a tiny reality. They just want a new battery for their digital cameras, one that will retain a charge for several hundred billion years. And here we are, made of atoms which are themselves just little incidental reactions that occurred within their power cell.

Makes as much sense as the other creation stories. (Well, possibly more than them.)

 

[dighn]

Seems it's very slightly overdone though. The crispy crust is cracked all over the place, and it occasionally breaks and oozes out the superheated gooey insides.

lava cake! :awe:

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Jesus died, didn't he?

No. Well, not crucified, anyway. There was a conspiracy among the disciples to deliver a person unto the Romans instead of Jesus, in order to fulfill prophecies. The Romans did not know who Jesus was -- that's why then needed Judas to identify him to them. The man himself was delusional and believed he was the Christ. He was drugged and sent to die. That's why he needed help to carry his cross. That is why he cried out on the cross that he had been forsaken.

Of course, his body had to be removed after it was entombed, lest someone identify the man. When people saw Jesus after they'd heard he was crucified, they believed he was resurrected. They wanted to believe it.

Now, there's no way to be sure that the above is true, but I'll be damned if people still don't prefer to believe in magical dead bodies coming back to life after being three days dead instead of a perfectly rational and natural explanation that accounts for all the evidence.

 

[tcsenter]

Doesn't it bother Christians that the New Testament wasn't written for dozens of years after Jesus died? Parts of it weren't even written by people who knew Jesus. They were simply worshipers.

One of the few authors of epistles or books who was even alive at the same time as Jesus was Paul. Paul never mentions crossing paths with Jesus, but he did have a couple encounters with Apostles and several disciples. And this is where it gets hilarious.

According to Paul's own accounts, the real Apostles practically wanted nothing to do with him. He chased the lead Apostles around trying to get meetings, even going as far as to befriend a few disciples thinking this could get him some street cred (e.g. Barnabus, Luke, Mark), whom later severed ties with Paul, most likely over his attempts to insert himself and his positions over that of Jesus and the Apostles. Paul actually got into a dispute with real Apostles when he finally tracked them down and forced himself into their company. Only after several Apostles had been forced into hiding, imprisoned, or died, thus could not effectively lead the movement, was Paul able to insert himself into the movement to fill the leadership void and later appointed himself an "Apostle".

Its fucking hilarious if you consider how much contemporary Christian doctrine/beliefs are hinged upon Paul's epistles; a guy who never crossed paths with Jesus, who Jesus' own Apostles wanted little or nothing to do with, who later inserts himself into the movement and appoints himself an Apostle only after a leadership void, and who received his "personal revelation" in the form of visions that he experienced while wandering in the desert!

 

[Gibsons]

Seems it's very slightly overdone though. The crispy crust is cracked all over the place, and it occasionally breaks and oozes out the superheated gooey insides.

But it's still frozen on the tips! It's a half frozen hot pocket. God needs a better microwave.

 

[Jeff7]

But it's still frozen on the tips! It's a half frozen hot pocket. God needs a better microwave.

He's got a microwave that has a turntable, but it only rotates about one axis. Damn cheap Chinese crap.

 

[zCypher]

Meh. Life is usually pretty good, why would I need anything to keep me going? There may or may not be any god or gods. So what? I've yet to hear a compelling reason why I should have this faith.

I'm just a lowly human being, a sinner who needs to be saved apparently? If I, as such a flawed person, don't need anyone to worship me - why would an all-powerful god need my worship?

Definitely not opposed to the idea of life after death, heaven and hell, god and or gods or other options. I respect that people have their beliefs, and find it quite interesting that there are so many religions around the world. Still, I see no reason to believe in something I can't really know. I'll find out what happens after death when I die, obviously. Whether the soul continues without the physical body, whether I rise to heaven or fall to hell, whether I become some pure being of galactic energy, whether I just die and am forever nothing. What will happen, will happen! So what? I'm going to live my life best I can, regardless. Seems simple enough to me.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

You don't need to be able to cite verses from the Bible in order to appreciate the amazing gift that is life.

 

[DrPizza]

Well, 4 hours later and I appear to have stumped the op or anyone on his side of the fence.

 

[Retro Rob]

Well, 4 hours later and I appear to have stumped the op or anyone on his side of the fence.

Actually, no you didn't. Outside of circumstance (work, family), I'm more than willing to engage in a debate if two conditions are met:

Those participating stay on topic. If we're taking about Bible v Evolution for instance, leave the "accepting the Genesis account as fact means accepting the persecution of gays as fact, too" type comments out of it.

Lastly, be mature and leave the childish name-calling out. Being "ganged up on" doesn't matter since I will only engage one poster at a time anyway. Some people will get ignored, depending on who it is and if they're serious about debating.

Other than that, it's all good! But I post from my laptop at work often and won't be able to give an immediate response.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Actually, no you didn't. Outside of circumstance (work, family), I'm more than willing to engage in a debate if two conditions are met:

Those participating stay on topic. If we're taking about Bible v Evolution for instance, leave the "accepting the Genesis account as fact means accepting the persecution of gays as fact, too" type comments out of it.

Lastly, be mature and leave the childish name-calling out. Being "ganged up on" doesn't matter since I will only engage one poster at a time anyway. Some people will get ignored, depending on who it is and if they're serious about debating.

Other than that, it's all good! But I post from my laptop at work often and won't be able to give an immediate response.

Will you stop lying then?

 

[soulcougher73]

Well, 4 hours later and I appear to have stumped the op or anyone on his side of the fence.

Well to be fair. It's not hard to stump them :whiste:

 

[soulcougher73]

No. Well, not crucified, anyway. There was a conspiracy among the disciples to deliver a person unto the Romans instead of Jesus, in order to fulfill prophecies. The Romans did not know who Jesus was -- that's why then needed Judas to identify him to them. The man himself was delusional and believed he was the Christ. He was drugged and sent to die. That's why he needed help to carry his cross. That is why he cried out on the cross that he had been forsaken.

Of course, his body had to be removed after it was entombed, lest someone identify the man. When people saw Jesus after they'd heard he was crucified, they believed he was resurrected. They wanted to believe it.

Now, there's no way to be sure that the above is true, but I'll be damned if people still don't prefer to believe in magical dead bodies coming back to life after being three days dead instead of a perfectly rational and natural explanation that accounts for all the evidence.

It does make one wonder why we allow any religious people to serve jury duty since real evidence doesnt mean much when they have their "belief" he is guilty

 

[Retro Rob]

Well to be fair. It's not hard to stump them :whiste:

Depending on what you're asking, yeah, I can't always answer it because I may not know it. Who does have the answer to every question he's asked?

How do you expect me to answer "if God created the earth for us to enjoy, why is 70 percent of it uninhabitable for humans, and the solar system deadly and can kill us in minutes?"

You at least have to ask an answerable question.

 

[Gibsons]

Depending on what you're asking, yeah, I can't always answer it because I may not know it. Who does have the answer to every question he's asked?

How do you expect me to answer "if God created the earth for us to enjoy, why is 70 percent of it uninhabitable for humans, and the solar system deadly and can kill us in minutes?"

You at least have to ask an answerable question.

It's answerable. Here's one: "That doesn't make sense, maybe this whole planet and universe wasn't just built for balding apes"

 

[Lonbjerg]

Rob M goes further down the path of intellectual dishonesty in order to preserve his imaginary "friend"...pathetic.

 

[Acanthus]

Actually, no you didn't. Outside of circumstance (work, family), I'm more than willing to engage in a debate if two conditions are met:

Those participating stay on topic. If we're taking about Bible v Evolution for instance, leave the "accepting the Genesis account as fact means accepting the persecution of gays as fact, too" type comments out of it.

Lastly, be mature and leave the childish name-calling out. Being "ganged up on" doesn't matter since I will only engage one poster at a time anyway. Some people will get ignored, depending on who it is and if they're serious about debating.

Other than that, it's all good! But I post from my laptop at work often and won't be able to give an immediate response.

So you're trying to shape the argument in a way that hides the inconsistencies in your argument.

If you take ANY passages in the bible literally, then you are taking the text as literal. You cannot cherry pick passages that you approve of and say they are literal and look at others and say they are figurative or metaphorical. I'm sure that anyone can see why that would invalidate your argument.

Saying that it is "off topic" to say that the things you are basing your arguments on are flawed is not a form of rational debate.