Well my answer would be obvious God is not very smart OR he doesnt exist as no smart God would do such a thing?
Depending on what you're asking, yeah, I can't always answer it because I may not know it. Who does have the answer to every question he's asked?
How do you expect me to answer "if God created the earth for us to enjoy, why is 70 percent of it uninhabitable for humans, and the solar system deadly and can kill us in minutes?"
You at least have to ask an answerable question.
So you're trying to shape the argument in a way that hides the inconsistencies in your argument.
If you take ANY passages in the bible literally, then you are taking the text as literal. You cannot cherry pick passages that you approve of and say they are literal and look at others and say they are figurative or metaphorical. I'm sure that anyone can see why that would invalidate your argument.
Saying that it is "off topic" to say that the things you are basing your arguments on are flawed is not a form of rational debate.
Like I said, one topic at a time. If you want to switch topics constantly, then that simply means you don't want answers. Please, I've debated with non-believers for years. The ones that jump from point to point aren't interested in a good debate.
This topic shifting device isn't anything new.
No one is shifting the topic.
Actually, someone is, and it's you. You were asked a question, you said you can't answer it, when asked why you can't answer it you claim others are changing the topic. Nice.
Well my answer would be obvious God is not very smart OR he doesnt exist as no smart God would do such a thing?
"The Lord Jehovah has given unto you these fifteen.....ten.....TWO commandments!'
Well, that's certainly an answer. I wish I could answer the "why" questions all the time, just simply can't. I have no issue with that, because you can't find me one person on earth who has the right answer for every "why" question imaginable.
Well, that's certainly an answer. I wish I could answer the "why" questions all the time, just simply can't. I have no issue with that, because you can't find me one person on earth who has the right answer for every "why" question imaginable.
Well, that's certainly an answer. I wish I could answer the "why" questions all the time, just simply can't. I have no issue with that, because you can't find me one person on earth who has the right answer for every "why" question imaginable.
I don't think anybody expects you to have answers to every question, but they've noticed that the "answers" you DO give only lead to bigger questions for which you do not have answers. Your "answers" just replace one mystery for another enigma.
Does this line of thinking apply to your own beliefs as well? I'm an agnostic atheist; I don't believe that a God or Gods exist, but I'm willing to accept that there is a lot I don't know, and there certainly could be metaphysical beings in the Universe beyond my perception. But whether that comes in the form of Jehovah or Odin or Zeus or Shiva or Coyote or some heretofore unnamed deity, I simply don't know. The fact is, there have been thousands of Gods suggested by dozens or hundreds of religions over the course of human history. How are you able to definitively say that you have knowledge of the real one, and everyone else was wrong?Thirdly, and this is the more common I've experienced here, you (not YOU, but generic you) simply refuse to accept it becasue it doesn't line up with what you've already learned and are willing to accept, or it doesn't make sense to you, or it's something you see as just plain wrong, backward, asinine.
Normally in my experience, one of the three fits. But in general, people have their minds set and made up from believers to non-believers, to secularists, to religionists, etc. The third option is the more common on this forum.
Does this line of thinking apply to your own beliefs as well? I'm an agnostic atheist; I don't believe that a God or Gods exist, but I'm willing to accept that there is a lot I don't know, and there certainly could be metaphysical beings in the Universe beyond my perception. But whether that comes in the form of Jehovah or Odin or Zeus or Shiva or Coyote or some heretofore unnamed deity, I simply don't know. The fact is, there have been thousands of Gods suggested by dozens or hundreds of religions over the course of human history. How are you able to definitively say that you have knowledge of the real one, and everyone else was wrong?
As Stephen Roberts famously put it: "I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
Do you only believe in the Biblical explanation of God because it is what you were raised with?
Sure, it applies to me as well - no dioubt. I am not "stubbornly fixed" in my own personal beliefs. I have evidence and basis.
I have mentioned yesterday, I examined my "Holy Book" - the Bible. I will be stright up honest... NO.. I have never just taken it at what it says and leave it at that. There are certain prophecies that I've studied, like the one about JEsus I mentioned yesterday, and how it was mentioned a few hundred years in advance that he would live and walk the earth and did. The prophecy didn't give every detail, but it was more than enough to connect the dots and make an accurate conclusion. There are others like this as well. So, after examining it, I know that no ordinary man can make such an accurate prediction.
Stuff like this doesn't leave much room for doubt at all.
I don't believe "my" God is the real one, but the God of the Bible is.
THere is a big misconception that believers don't think for themselves, and can't think critically. Some can't, but not all. I for one examined the Bible, and if something didn't make sense to me, I didn't just say "well, it must be true because it's there". I did research, and of course needed some help, but came to satisfactory asnswers.
With this sort of evidence, it doesn't require that I see God to believe he exists.
Of course, you have conspirasy theorists all over the place that will say Jesus intentionally cooberated Isaiah's writings, or that the Gospels were falsified because Jesus really didn't die, but his death was somehow faked to stage a resurrection.
I don't pay attention to stuff like that. Like Newton said, who was critic of ancient writings, that he found the Bible true and more true than any profane secular writing of his day.
Let me start by saying that I respect your beliefs and your right to hold them. I may not personally believe the same way you do, but that's not to say that I am correct and you are incorrect or vice versa; neither of us knows everything, and it's perfectly possible that either one of us, or indeed neither of us, is correct.Of course, you have conspirasy theorists all over the place that will say Jesus intentionally cooberated Isaiah's writings, or that the Gospels were falsified because Jesus really didn't die, but his death was somehow faked to stage a resurrection.
I don't pay attention to stuff like that. Like Newton said, who was critic of ancient writings, that he found the Bible true and more true than any profane secular writing of his day.
Were these prophecies of Jesus' coming from the bible? If so, isnt that terribly convienient?
More conspiracies...
I don't expect they'll ever end...
...but the beauty of this world is that you can believe what you want. I see you're putting that into practice and that's fine with me, cougher.
Let me start by saying that I respect your beliefs and your right to hold them. I may not personally believe the same way you do, but that's not to say that I am correct and you are incorrect or vice versa; neither of us knows everything, and it's perfectly possible that either one of us, or indeed neither of us, is correct.
That said, the attitude of "I don't pay attention to stuff like that" is what makes religion difficult for me to believe in. It seems that there is a strong need to remain willfully ignorant of any facts or opinions that may call your belief into question, and rather than confront them, you ignore them. I'm a logical person by nature, so someone dismissing arguments without responding to them immediately turns me off to their position. If your beliefs are so delicate that even considering contradictory evidence is something you can't bear to do, why should I bother with your ideology? I have no problem with faith, I have a problem with faith that cannot accept that it may be incorrectly placed.
More conspiracies...
I don't expect they'll ever end...
...but the beauty of this world is that you can believe what you want. I see you're putting that into practice and that's fine with me, cougher.
But what contradictory evidence? It's all hearsay. Prove that Jesus didn't die and the Apostles covered it up.
I ignore hearsay.... that's the difference.
We both know that you can't consider every single thing you hear about something. Some things simply are NOT true. A critical thinker also knows how to separate the facts from bull crap. I've been there, done that. So I know those "conspiracies" aren't true.
I was asking a serious question. Are these prophecies you read about Jesus in the bible or another book? Also does it mention Jesus by name or could it be Horus or another of the Gods before Jesus that Jesus is based on>
First off, I'm not going to argue that Jesus didn't die. I don't believe that anyone will ever live to be thousands of years old.But what contradictory evidence? It's all hearsay. Prove that Jesus didn't die and the Apostles covered it up.
I ignore hearsay.... that's the difference.
We both know that you can't consider every single thing you hear about something. Some things simply are NOT true. A critical thinker also knows how to separate the facts from bull crap. I've been there, done that. So I know those "conspiracies" aren't true.
But when someone says, "Hey, the Bible was written by men, and men have a history of lying, or embellishing the truth at least, so they might have taken a few artistic liberties in describing this guy, right? And they wrote these accounts dozens of years after Jesus died, right?[
So, that's a little strange right? Maybe it's not all completely true possibly?" And you counter with "I'm not listening." Well, that's not a hugely convincing rebuttal to an honest question for an impartial observer like myself. I can respect someone saying "It's true that the gospels were written well after Jesus died and there are some contradictory elements, but I take it on faith that the similarities between the stories is indicative that this man actually lived and performed the actions the stories describe including the miracles and the resurrection/ascension into Heaven following his martyrdom." That is at least an answer. Saying "I don't pay attention to stuff like that," is a cop out, a way of never having to defend your beliefs while requiring other people defend theirs.
I would argue that it depends on how specific the prophecy is. Now, I'm no Biblical scholar; I wasn't raised with much religion, and what was there was not typically Bible-based, so I don't know which prophecies predicted the coming of Jesus. But if you make something vague enough - a child will be born unto a flaxen-haired maiden in a village that lies in the bend of the river beneath the shadow of a mountain under the harvest moon - eventually it's almost guaranteed to come true. It's the same notion that horoscope writers and seers operate under; keep things specific enough so that it doesn't refer to everybody, but vague enough to that it could be seen as referring to anybody. Maybe the prophecies about Jesus are extremely specific, I don't know. Perhaps you could enlighten me about the specific prophecies and how they could only be referring to Jesus.That almost completely counters your argument. And too, its very very hard, if not humanly impossible to utter any prophecy and see it come true hundreds and thousands of years later.
I would argue that it depends on how specific the prophecy is. Now, I'm no Biblical scholar; I wasn't raised with much religion, and what was there was not typically Bible-based, so I don't know which prophecies predicted the coming of Jesus. But if you make something vague enough - a child will be born unto a flaxen-haired maiden in a village that lies in the bend of the river beneath the shadow of a mountain under the harvest moon - eventually it's almost guaranteed to come true. It's the same notion that horoscope writers and seers operate under; keep things specific enough so that it doesn't refer to everybody, but vague enough to that it could be seen as referring to anybody. Maybe the prophecies about Jesus are extremely specific, I don't know. Perhaps you could enlighten me about the specific prophecies and how they could only be referring to Jesus.
I'm still at work and should be working, instead of posting here!