The burden of proof ALWAYS lies on the believer because you guys brought it up in the first place. Notice always in in caps? That means 100% of the time ALWAYS
I mean seriously how do you go through life believing in something you have zero proof in? A book? Really? There are many books written by man, why cling to this one as if its anything special vs. all the others?[/QUOTE]
Bycause his mummy and daddy told him so....
If he did present some "evidence", would you objectively examine and consider it?
The problem with people who call for "undeniable proof and evidence", really don't want it to begin with. What they really want to do is cover up their own insecurities and lack of evidence to the contrary by unfairly keeping the burden of proof on the believer. They already think they've "won" anyway, so they have no evidence and don't feel they need it.
If someone believes flying unicorns existed, so what? That's on them.
But if YOU'RE going to assert God doesn't exist, you have no burden? This isn't table shifting,... you do have some burden to prove that what we believe is hogwash.
The world doesn't work that way. What you can't do is assert you're right without proving it either.
If you can't meet any of your criteria to prove he doesn't exist (which I am assuming is the position you hold), you need to live and let live, and give believers the same respect you want. Keep your non-believe to yourself, everyone doesn't care to hear it either, just as you don't care for what believers have to say on the matter and should keep it "personal".
I think the better question is for religious people: if heaven is so great, then why don't religious people have a death wish so they can get there sooner?
"Gods Domain" is only shrinking because the catholic church can't adapt but that doesn't mean that people still aren't spiritual.You talk about proofs and yet I don't see you presenting one. So far all the proofs have been absolutely debunked. Also, it is pretty clear that God's domain(Disease, miracles, etc. ) has been shrinking rapidly whereas the domain of science is on the rise. I feel sad for the folks who are missing out on the this.
The burden of proof is on the believer, if some one says" I believe in X and that is true.." He should corroborate his statement with evidence to his observation/hypothesis.
Keeping it personal goes both ways, Rob. It is ok if you keep it personal.. I guess no one is complaining, but you better prepare yourself to be ridiculed if you bring religion into a public place or a school.
"Gods Domain" is only shrinking because the catholic church can't adapt but that doesn't mean that people still aren't spiritual.
Lets pretend you are a scientist. You create an intelligent life form that you can instruct any way you want. Is the first thing you instruct this new lifeform: Worship me! Or would you instruct it to go out, seek out shelter, the difference in edible food and poisonous food, and so forth. Would you hide yourself in shape and form from your creation? Would you give it 10 commandments or let them deduce how to survive on their own? Personally, if I created life, I would want to leave it alone, and see how it does. Would I want it to spend 3 hours a day worshipping me? Heck no. Am I that arrogant? Do I need the worship of this low some bug? Nope. Religion is a crock.
"Gods Domain" is only shrinking because the catholic church can't adapt but that doesn't mean that people still aren't spiritual.
What do I look forward to? My life, that's what. I don't need a promise of an afterlife to live in the here and now. It's akin to saying that I won't ever be a millionaire so why even enjoy my life now.
Lets pretend you are a scientist. You create an intelligent life form that you can instruct any way you want. Is the first thing you instruct this new lifeform: Worship me! Or would you instruct it to go out, seek out shelter, the difference in edible food and poisonous food, and so forth. Would you hide yourself in shape and form from your creation? Would you give it 10 commandments or let them deduce how to survive on their own? Personally, if I created life, I would want to leave it alone, and see how it does. Would I want it to spend 3 hours a day worshipping me? Heck no. Am I that arrogant? Do I need the worship of this low some bug? Nope. Religion is a crock.
I would blame it for using the free will that i gave it. Since i am omniscient i would also know exactly how everything would turn out beforehand (so they can't really choose) but i would still punish them by torture for eternity for doing exactly what i knew they would do when i created them.
I'd do that because i'm just that loving, perfect and just.
i'd do that because i'm just that loving, perfect and just.
A critical mistake here is assuming we know everything about life, death and the universe. We don't. So it makes very little sense posing this question to anyone at all, whether the brightest of scientists or the most ignorant of men.....
It depends if the universe is discrete or stochastic :X
Who assumes that apart from religious people?
I think we should question everything (that's how science works) because if we don't we'll never learn anything.
Yea and what happens if your life turns south? Life can be like that. Bad shit happens all the time. My dads dad was a doctor and he died at age 47 of a heart attack when my dad was 5 and it still affects our family's socioeconomic status to this day since my dad was raised by a single mom in the 1950's instead of a doctor.
Like I was saying the good times we have now are only predicated on the backs of the good morals of the previous generations and now we piss all over it and wonder why society is going downhill.
I'm not anti-religious at all and do think most religious people are moral. I don't necessarily think the old days were so moral just because more people were religious, a lot has changed.
My dad died when he was 45 and I was 19 from cancer with no real life insurance and my 5 year old sister and mom were poor for a long time. I'm not really sure what your post was meant to mean, but nobody is immune from hardship.
And somehow, the idea of "blind faith," believing completely in something for which there is zero credible evidence, has been boosted to an ideal higher than the pursuit of knowledge. I don't need to look for knowledge or truth, I know it already, based on absolutely nothing, and that makes me better than those who lack baseless belief.The burden of proof ALWAYS lies on the believer because you guys brought it up in the first place. Notice always in in caps? That means 100% of the time ALWAYS
I mean seriously how do you go through life believing in something you have zero proof in? A book? Really? There are many books written by man, why cling to this one as if its anything special vs. all the others?
Or create a document that has very little useful information, and which is quite excessively short, given the complexity of the system that's been created. There's no published datasheet for our reality, let alone even just our species.Let’s pretend you are a scientist. You create an intelligent life form that you can instruct any way you want. Is the first thing you instruct this new lifeform: Worship me! Or would you instruct it to go out, seek out shelter, the difference in edible food and poisonous food, and so forth. Would you hide yourself in shape and form from your creation? Would you give it 10 commandments or let them deduce how to survive on their own? Personally, if I created life, I would want to leave it alone, and see how it does. Would I want it to spend 3 hours a day worshipping me? Heck no. Am I that arrogant? Do I need the worship of this low some bug? Nope. Religion is a crock.
Without morals when times are hard the tendency is to turn on each other. If it happened in 2012 what do you think the outcome would have been? A lot of people that had helped back then would probably turn their backs today because everyone is several fold more selfish than just 10-20 years ago.
And somehow, the idea of "blind faith," believing completely in something for which there is zero credible evidence
Science doesn't tend to question its source of funding. Everything is human, thats what matters. Science is for sale to the highest bidder and able to be corrupted just like any other human endeavor.
Thats why science < religion. The people matter, not the money or technology. What we do with the tech is more important than the tech itself. Its just as big a fallacy that atheists hold about tech always being used for good, and that we'll colonize other plants with super technology and never run out of energy etc. etc. as Catholics and their T-rex's teeth being used to eat coconuts fallacy.
Yea because Vioxx never went to market after clinical trials, and no scientists has ever falsified research ever and all experiments are designed to give fair results.Wow, you're really this stupid?
Science works through falsification, that is how it progresses, by falsifying ideas. Those ideas that stand up to falsification become theories, those that don't become nothing.
Religion works by establishing facts and ignore everything that doesn't fit into the predetermined facts.
One is used to gain knowledge, the other to reject it.