To gun owners out there...

[CurseTheSky]

Right. So we are in agreement that a series 70 is a much more easily and safely serviceable system.

Easily, yes. There are more parts in a S80, no question about that, but we're not talking a couple hours versus days on end.

We're only taking a few parts that are different, and it shouldn't be enough to change how "safely" you can service one type versus the other. I don't mean this to be insulting, but if the inclusion of the FPB parts in a S80 makes it unsafe for you to service, you shouldn't be touching either one. If it's your preference to do one type and not the other, that's fine, but it should have nothing to do with how safely someone can competently work with 1911 parts, unless they're literally seeing a S80 for the first time in their life. In that case, I'd seriously question what rock they've been living under all these years.

Again, the S70 vs S80 debate is largely overblown. It doesn't mean that one will always have a 10lb trigger when the other will secrete unicorn tears as soon as the pad of your finger touches it. Some people have a preference, and that's fine, but they need to stop spreading FUD that makes people think one is superior to the other.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Easily, yes. There are more parts in a S80, no question about that, but we're not talking a couple hours versus days on end.

We're only taking a few parts that are different, and it shouldn't be enough to change how "safely" you can service one type versus the other. I don't mean this to be insulting, but if the inclusion of the FPB parts in a S80 makes it unsafe for you to service, you shouldn't be touching either one. If it's your preference to do one type and not the other, that's fine, but it should have nothing to do with how safely someone can competently work with 1911 parts, unless they're literally seeing a S80 for the first time in their life. In that case, I'd seriously question what rock they've been living under all these years.

Again, the S70 vs S80 debate is largely overblown. It doesn't mean that one will always have a 10lb trigger when the other will secrete unicorn tears as soon as the pad of your finger touches it. Some people have a preference, and that's fine, but they need to stop spreading FUD that makes people think one is superior to the other.

:thumbsup: Totally agree.

BTW-There are exactly 4 extra parts in the series 80 government models vs the series 70 models.

 

[Tiamat]

1911s, especially nice ones are nice pieces of equipment. The thing with nice pieces of equipment is that they can and often do have very tight tolerance machined parts which are marvelous feats in of itself. The problem with tight tolerances is that they are very picky in terms of needing to be cleaned very well, pickiness towards preferred ammo. Also, the disassembly is less straightforward than most other modern handguns. These qualities generally make 1911s a sweet intermediate/advanced handgun. Polymer handguns, sigs, HK, and other modern handguns usually have much looser tolerances and toolless, near effortless disassembly which make them more tolerant of poor cleaning, poor ammunition quality, and novices. Taking it a step further, revolvers are even simplier for someone to learn and are even more tolerant to novices since they have far less modes of failure (less movement in parts, less moving parts) and have very simple battery of arms that applies to all typical and atypical situations (point and shoot).

I started with a s&w 686+ and learned handgun fundamentals with that. I then picked up a ruger 22/45 mark iii 22lr handgun a few months down the line for inexpensive and more rapid practice of marksmanship and fundamentals. A few months later, I bought a Sig p226 equinox in 9mm because it looked sweet. It also has become my favorite handgun due to it's reliability, cosmetics, capacity, and features. I'd love to get a Dan Wesson valor 1911, but that $2k buys a lot of other things I want and I'm sure it will just become a safe queen not that there is anything wrong with safe queens.

 

[JulesMaximus]

1911s, especially nice ones are nice pieces of equipment. The thing with nice pieces of equipment is that they can and often do have very tight tolerance machined parts which are marvelous feats in of itself. The problem with tight tolerances is that they are very picky in terms of needing to be cleaned very well, pickiness towards preferred ammo. Also, the disassembly is less straightforward than most other modern handguns. These qualities generally make 1911s a sweet intermediate/advanced handgun. Polymer handguns, sigs, HK, and other modern handguns usually have much looser tolerances and toolless, near effortless disassembly which make them more tolerant of poor cleaning, poor ammunition quality, and novices. Taking it a step further, revolvers are even simplier for someone to learn and are even more tolerant to novices since they have far less modes of failure (less movement in parts, less moving parts) and have very simple battery of arms that applies to all typical and atypical situations (point and shoot).

I started with a s&w 686+ and learned handgun fundamentals with that. I then picked up a ruger 22/45 mark iii 22lr handgun a few months down the line for inexpensive and more rapid practice of marksmanship and fundamentals. A few months later, I bought a Sig p226 equinox in 9mm because it looked sweet. It also has become my favorite handgun due to it's reliability, cosmetics, capacity, and features. I'd love to get a Dan Wesson valor 1911, but that $2k buys a lot of other things I want and I'm sure it will just become a safe queen not that there is anything wrong with safe queens.

Hehehe, you want to talk about a gun that is difficult to disassemble and fussy when dirty, that Ruger Mark III takes the prize.

Agree with everything else you said though. I have a Glock 17 that I can disassemble in about 5 seconds and I could shoot thousands of rounds through it and it wouldn't blink.

 

[Tiamat]

Hehehe, you want to talk about a gun that is difficult to disassemble and fussy when dirty, that Ruger Mark III takes the prize.

Agree with everything else you said though. I have a Glock 17 that I can disassemble in about 5 seconds and I could shoot thousands of rounds through it and it wouldn't blink.

I don't know of a single other hand gun that requires more disassembly effort than the ruger

I need my bench, mallet, and dowel, and my manual next to me just in case, also my phone with disassembly YouTube as backup - maybe 1 minute lol. For my wife's 1911, bench, disassembly tool, and manual - probably 30 seconds. My wife's ppq and my sig is 3 seconds. My 686, 1 second or less.

 

[phucheneh]

How is it even possible to have a 'bad' 1911 trigger? I would guess that the cheapest Filipino 1911's still have a ~5-6lb trigger, at most, with reasonably short travel. Nothing compared to some of the shit DA/SA triggers out there. Like a Glock full of sand, at worst (so...'like a Glock'...is what that means ;P).

 

[pontifex]

I have 3 1911s - a lower end springfield milspec, a springfield trophy match (higher end), and a custom built 1911. Love the looks and feel of the 1911s. fan for life.

I had other guns before I bought my 1911s and I don't really understand the part about not being good for beginners. I don't get what's supposed to be so difficult about it?

Here's a nice article about the 1911 arguing a video where someone said 1911s suck.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/12/patrick-carrube/why-the-1911-doesn’t-suck…/

 

[squirrel dog]

op , note that .45 acp kicks like a bitch.I have a series 70 and a ruger p90 in .45,and 12 other guns . A .45 has more felt recoil than a 9mm . The advice to try before you buy is spot on . Any good range should have rentals . Keep in mind a .357 revolver can shoot .38 special ( reloads also) and .357 reloads with ease . A .44 mag revolver can shoot reloads in 44 as well as 44 special and 44 Russian . semi auto Pistols can have trouble cycling the slide with anything less than full house loads . Have fun .

 

[CurseTheSky]

How is it even possible to have a 'bad' 1911 trigger? I would guess that the cheapest Filipino 1911's still have a ~5-6lb trigger, at most, with reasonably short travel. Nothing compared to some of the shit DA/SA triggers out there. Like a Glock full of sand, at worst (so...'like a Glock'...is what that means ;P).

Bad compared to other 1911s really. To be honest, I'd take an 8lb long DAO trigger that was smooth and crisp over a 5-6lb SA trigger that was gritty and didn't have a clean break. I think the design 1911s causes issues with the trigger pull to feel far worse than DA/SA, DAO, striker fired, etc. So a good 1911 trigger is heavenly, while a bad 1911 trigger is more infuriating than perhaps any other handgun. The bad trigger might still be lighter than other designs, but it doesn't make it better than them.

 

[irishScott]

Bad compared to other 1911s really. To be honest, I'd take an 8lb long DAO trigger that was smooth and crisp over a 5-6lb SA trigger that was gritty and didn't have a clean break. I think the design 1911s causes issues with the trigger pull to feel far worse than DA/SA, DAO, striker fired, etc. So a good 1911 trigger is heavenly, while a bad 1911 trigger is more infuriating than perhaps any other handgun. The bad trigger might still be lighter than other designs, but it doesn't make it better than them.

Huh? So by your logic a bad 1911 trigger, which is gritty with short travel, is worse than a bad DA/SA/DAO/etc trigger, which is gritty with longer travel?

A traditional 1911 trigger can't be beat even if it is of sub-par quality IMO. The system is just simpler. Fewer moving parts, extremely short travel, simple motion and trigger technique = better trigger across the board. In fact the trigger is one of the reasons I use a 1911 as home defense over other pistols; if I'm going to lose most of my fine manipulation skills under stress and jerk the trigger, I'd much rather jerk a 1911 trigger than, say, a Glock or Ruger trigger. Do a side-by-side on the range, bad trigger technique is far less detrimental to accuracy on a 1911 than on other styles of firearm.

 

[iwajabitw]

Kimber Pro Carry II, $850,best shooting gun, out of the box l've owned. Replaced my Sig 226 with it. But still prefer my Glock 23,27,or 19 for CCW in a C.T.A.C.

 

[John Connor]

Ace Hardware sells guns. Go to yellowbook.com and enter gun stores. I hope we are all not giving advice for nefarious purposes. Because who doesn't know where to buy a gun?

 

[schneiderguy]

op , note that .45 acp kicks like a bitch.

Out of a steel frame, full size 1911? Pls.

 

[schneiderguy]

Ace Hardware sells guns.

Hardware stores only sell guns in Free America. If you're behind enemy lines you'll have to go to a real gun store.

 

[irishScott]

Out of a steel frame, full size 1911? Pls.

This, I think a lot of people limp-wrist it and needlessly hurt their wrists or something. .45 ACP is very manageable even out of a Glock or M&P. My .380 P238 kicks harder, and I wear a US-size small-medium glove, so I don't have bear paws or anything.

 

[squirrel dog]

op stated this would be his FIRST GUN . I am well aware of the recoil and how to handle it , he might not be as experienced as some of you .

 

[irishScott]

op stated this would be his FIRST GUN . I am well aware of the recoil and how to handle it , he might not be as experienced as some of you .

A 1911 was my first gun as well. I shot my first hundred rounds through it with no formal technique at all and my wrist felt fine, the gun didn't fly out of my hand either. I'm now wondering what issues you guys have had with 1911s that you can't just pick them up and shoot them. All it takes in my experience is the grip of a firm handshake. Good technique can improve accuracy, stability and followup shots, but it isn't a pre-req just because the gun's chambered for .45.

 

[adlep]

www.slickguns.net -> browse there.