To People Worried That China is going to Bankrupt Us...

[Accipiter22]

I have a question; I see a lot of people here talking about the Chinese sucking up US assets and currency, etc. I see just as many talking about them 'bankrupting' us....My question: WTF are you guys talking about? If the US collapses then China takes almost as big of a hit as we do, seeing as how we're one of the main consumers for their goods....

I never really understood this line of doomsday thinking, and was wondering if someone could explain to me a situation where China could 'bankrupt' the U.S. and not suffer immensely themselves.

 

[Craig234]

Strategically, it can be in the interest of a China to take a hit in order to hurt the competition even more.

In the long run, China is set to eclipse the US in many ways, including economically. At some point, it won't be in their interest to keep propping up our economy artificially as they do now.

This is a reason why I would like to see us use our current power to influence China towards more democracy/human rights, since they're going to be a power one way or the other.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Strategically, it can be in the interest of a China to take a hit in order to hurt the competition even more.

In the long run, China is set to eclipse the US in many ways, including economically. At some point, it won't be in their interest to keep propping up our economy artificially as they do now.

This is a reason why I would like to see us use our current power to influence China towards more democracy/human rights, since they're going to be a power one way or the other.

if anything, the shortage of goods from china would aid the competition state-side and other places...

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Accipiter22
Topic Title: To People Worried That China is going to Bankrupt Us...

I have a question; I see a lot of people here talking about the Chinese sucking up US assets and currency, etc. I see just as many talking about them 'bankrupting' us....My question: WTF are you guys talking about? If the US collapses then China takes almost as big of a hit as we do, seeing as how we're one of the main consumers for their goods....

I never really understood this line of doomsday thinking, and was wondering if someone could explain to me a situation where China could 'bankrupt' the U.S. and not suffer immensely themselves.

Sorry but China isn't doing anything to us.

It is ourselves allowing Corporations using China for cheap labor (children living in factories) and material (see lead paint and anti-freeze used in food etc) that is bankrupting the general population of the U.S. to benefit the few rich at the top.

It's quite a grand plan and working to a T.

 

[bobdelt]

How can China bankrupt us? Can someone explain that to me? They can't ask to collect on their loans early. FX manipulation? They are already manipulating it in their favor. I dont get it. I haven't read anything in any magazine that would suggest China has this ability.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Accipiter22
Topic Title: To People Worried That China is going to Bankrupt Us...

I have a question; I see a lot of people here talking about the Chinese sucking up US assets and currency, etc. I see just as many talking about them 'bankrupting' us....My question: WTF are you guys talking about? If the US collapses then China takes almost as big of a hit as we do, seeing as how we're one of the main consumers for their goods....

I never really understood this line of doomsday thinking, and was wondering if someone could explain to me a situation where China could 'bankrupt' the U.S. and not suffer immensely themselves.

Sorry but China isn't doing anything to us.

It is ourselves allowing Corporations using China for cheap labor (children living in factories) and material (see lead paint and anti-freeze used in food etc) that is bankrupting the general population of the U.S. to benefit the few rich at the top.

It's quite a grand plan and working to a T.

I disagree about it merely benefiting the few rich at the top...it benefits everyone who plays a part in it (for now).

For everyone who goes to Walmart to buy 4 TV's so their kids can have one in every room of the house instead of having just 1 TV (at elevated price, made in USA).

So yes, it isn't China doing it, and it also is not rich people in the US doing it, it is every joe 6-pick and his family doing it to themselves in a silly attempt to live life like one of the few rich guys at the top.

Rich guys at the top really could care less what China does or what Joe 6-pack does, they make their money elsewhere anyways. Of course there are plenty of wanna-be rich guys attempting to get to the type by playning wallstreet scams with Walmart stocks, etc.

But these folks are along for the ride too. No one forced Walmart onto the american people, and the reason we all keep going there is not because we are too poor (yet) to go anywhere else but rather because we want to have 6 of everything instead of just 1 or 2. (i.e. it benefits the consumer, for now, to attempt to be cheap...by being cheap)

 

[Accipiter22]

Originally posted by: bobdelt
How can China bankrupt us? Can someone explain that to me? They can't ask to collect on their loans early. FX manipulation? They are already manipulating it in their favor. I dont get it. I haven't read anything in any magazine that would suggest China has this ability.

That's what I'm asking as well, how exactly would this work...

 

[StageLeft]

I bet the average chinese person would find this thread half funny half downright atrocious. You whiny buggers (not pointing to the OP) live in the richest nation in the earth. Unemployment is low, prospects for advancement is high, we have security, human rights, freedom of speech, health care and you're talking about China eclipsing the US? The average Chinese person cannot even practice a religion they may want to, sure as hell doesn't have money to sit on the net all day whining about it and cannot afford most of the crap they make for us here.

Enjoy life a little. Stop so desperately looking for something to worry about. If you cannot make it in this country, YOU SUCK. It's your fault or the fault of your loser parents for bringing you up to be a loser, but it's your fault, nobody else's. At least even losers in this country can still whine about it and get drunk on the weekend and see movies. Losers in China get to live in a hovel.

 

[Craig234]

Skoorb, you are confused between our having the advantages we have, and the issue of our keeping them. You are burying your head in the sand about the coming problems. Things do suck for most Chinese people, as you said, and that's why we need to be concerned about what their surpassing the US economy later this century means. If we don't deal with the changes, we'll be forced to change to be more like them.

 

[RaiderJ]

How could owing the Chinese billions of dollars be bad for us? It's not like a creditor has any control over you.

Oh wait....

 

[rchiu]

Heh, American people really think the world revolves around them. You think Chinese got nothing better to do then coming after evil American? I mean they got their Olympic, their corrupted government officials, poor people in cities off of the coast, and oh 1.3 billion mouth to feed, why would they waste their time on doing something to the Americans.

The last time I checked, it was American who sent the jobs to China/India, it was American company that choose to purchase/manufacture their stuff in China, it was American who choose to take up all these debt and sell treasury and Chinese just happened to buy them. You American should stop worrying about chinese and start thinking what you need to do to deal with your own issues.

 

[rpanic]

I think in the future people will look back and see how American corporate greed was a great folly. At least with it comes some protection, why would China want to harm its biggest customer. Hopefully democracy will spread there at some point and things won?t be so one way.

On a side note why is all this stuff about missed up products from China coming out now it?s been going on for a long time. Is the government or corporate America prepping us for something?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: rpanic
I think in the future people will look back and see how American corporate greed was a great folly. At least with it comes some protection, why would China want to harm its biggest customer. Hopefully democracy will spread there at some point and things won?t be so one way.

On a side note why is all this stuff about missed up products from China coming out now it?s been going on for a long time.

Is the government or corporate America prepping us for something?

Welcome to P&N

Our Government is Corporate America now.

 

[bobdelt]

Also, lets not forget with China's trade surplus, they are sitting on tons of US dollars. They wouldnt bankrupt the US because that would make their US dollars worthless. So can someone please explain how China can bankrupt the US? I've seen it said here many of times and I havent heard anyone explain why. Plus we have the power to print money - there is always a way to pay off debt.

Also, the U.S dollar is a widely used currency in international trade. As of 2003, 90% of all international transactions used dollars, even when the US wasnt involved. Since the euro that number probably went down, but I down the world bank and WTO would allow china to throw us under the bus, even if they could. The world's economy would crumble. All the world banks would be in trouble as well as the "evil" oil producing countries.

 

[XMan]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Strategically, it can be in the interest of a China to take a hit in order to hurt the competition even more.

In the long run, China is set to eclipse the US in many ways, including economically. At some point, it won't be in their interest to keep propping up our economy artificially as they do now.

This is a reason why I would like to see us use our current power to influence China towards more democracy/human rights, since they're going to be a power one way or the other.

Demographically speaking, China doesn't have the population growth or "breeders" to be a future superpower. That's what a culture that doesn't value baby girls will get you.

 

[babylon5]

How can a country as powerful as American let China control it? Did China point a gun at us? No, we let our own corporate government run wild. And we support by buying cheap products.

Americans we only have ourselves to blame.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: rpanic
I think in the future people will look back and see how American corporate greed was a great folly. At least with it comes some protection, why would China want to harm its biggest customer. Hopefully democracy will spread there at some point and things won?t be so one way.

On a side note why is all this stuff about missed up products from China coming out now it?s been going on for a long time. Is the government or corporate America prepping us for something?

The irony is that capitalism and "greed" is one of the cornerstones of this society and in fact the reason why it it is the most successful and is the country that everybody is beating down the doors to get into.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: XMan

Originally posted by: Craig234
Strategically, it can be in the interest of a China to take a hit in order to hurt the competition even more.

In the long run, China is set to eclipse the US in many ways, including economically. At some point, it won't be in their interest to keep propping up our economy artificially as they do now.

This is a reason why I would like to see us use our current power to influence China towards more democracy/human rights, since they're going to be a power one way or the other.

Demographically speaking, China doesn't have the population growth or "breeders" to be a future superpower. That's what a culture that doesn't value baby girls will get you.

That will limit them from being even more of a superpower, but they have plenty of upside with their >1 billion population and their economy poised to surpass the US in a few decades.

 

[sandorski]

It is foolish to assume China won't use this situation against the US or any other Nation. Especially when their advantage to do so keeps growing. It may seem logical that doing so is not in their Best Interest, but only they can truly define what their Best Interest is.

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Skoorb, you are confused between our having the advantages we have, and the issue of our keeping them. You are burying your head in the sand about the coming problems. Things do suck for most Chinese people, as you said, and that's why we need to be concerned about what their surpassing the US economy later this century means. If we don't deal with the changes, we'll be forced to change to be more like them.

I don't see much bad that can come from them surpassing our economy as long as they are well integrated into the global economy. Also, why would we be forced to be more like them? Maybe I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that. If you mean government-wise the opposite is likely true. With a larger middle class generally comes a higher degree of democracy and transparency.

Sure, things suck in China now but the same goes for every developing nation. Things sucked in places like Taiwan, Singapore, Ireland, Japan, and South Korea 50 years ago but they seem to be doing perfectly fine today with their market oriented attitudes.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: rpanic
I think in the future people will look back and see how American corporate greed was a great folly. At least with it comes some protection, why would China want to harm its biggest customer. Hopefully democracy will spread there at some point and things won?t be so one way.

On a side note why is all this stuff about missed up products from China coming out now it?s been going on for a long time. Is the government or corporate America prepping us for something?

The irony is that capitalism and "greed" is one of the cornerstones of this society and in fact the reason why it it is the most successful and is the country that everybody is beating down the doors to get into.

Yep. So many capitalism haters here though....when the real problem is the corporations involvement in the government, not just the corporations themselves. Greed is why this country is so great. If the incentive to make money had not existed, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Sure, things suck in China now but the same goes for every developing nation. Things sucked in places like Taiwan, Singapore, Ireland, Japan, and South Korea 50 years ago but they seem to be doing perfectly fine today with their market oriented attitudes.

Sure, but the difference between those countries and China is the government. Each and everyone of those countries gradually (or quickly) moved to a democratic form of government over the past 50 years. Only changing the economy isn't enough.

If only China would follow Taiwans example though...

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Sure, things suck in China now but the same goes for every developing nation. Things sucked in places like Taiwan, Singapore, Ireland, Japan, and South Korea 50 years ago but they seem to be doing perfectly fine today with their market oriented attitudes.

Sure, but the difference between those countries and China is the government. Each and everyone of those countries gradually (or quickly) moved to a democratic form of government over the past 50 years. Only changing the economy isn't enough.

If only China would follow Taiwans example though...

South Korea has become pretty democratic only fairly recently and I'm not sure I would currently call Singapore a model democracy. These countries largely weren't democratic when they were developing (excluding Japan and Ireland).

My point was that reforming the economy and allowing growth provides a greater chance for democracy and government transparency. They don't necessarily go hand in hand but the development of a large middle class tends to correlate nicely with democratization.

 

[piasabird]

Maybe China needs to be removed from the most favored trading nation status. Everything they sell us is either poisoned or is painted with lead paint.

Now Baby bibs have shown up with lead paint. It is like the USA is under a biological attack and we keep paying the idiots who are attacking us. We should cut off all trade with China immediately.