Today Britain votes on remaining part of the EU

rumpleforeskin

Senior member
Nov 3, 2008
380
13
81
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-idUSKCN0Z902K

Britons were voting on Thursday on whether to stay in the European Union in a referendum that could change the face of Europe and is being nervously watched by financial markets and politicians across the world.

A British exit, or Brexit, would deprive the 28-member EU of its second-biggest economy and one of its two main military powers, sending political shockwaves across the continent.
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
0
I don't get this. They have all all the benefits of the EU membership plus they retain sovereignty over their currency. They've got the best of both worlds, what is exiting supposed to get them?
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
136
Alright England guys please give me some pro's and cons. I don't have a horse in this race since I'm American. I understand wanting to control your boarders better to protect jobs and pay. I understand being concerned about immigration from the Middle East. I also understand being together is better than being alone.
What am I missing?
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
136
I don't get this. They have all all the benefits of the EU membership plus they retain sovereignty over their currency. They've got the best of both worlds, what is exiting supposed to get them?

The brief reading I saw is its about jobs. Basically anyone in the EU can go to work in any EU country. This puts pressure on jobs and wages.
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
0
The brief reading I saw is its about jobs. Basically anyone in the EU can go to work in any EU country. This puts pressure on jobs and wages.

Well if it's an immigration thing that explains the contention but economically Britain seems to be sitting pretty here, way better than some of the countries that would really benefit from leaving the EU. *coughgreececough*
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,596
7,654
136
I don't get this. They have all all the benefits of the EU membership plus they retain sovereignty over their currency. They've got the best of both worlds, what is exiting supposed to get them?

I thought they wanted immigration and border control.
Could also relate those to jobs.

Basically, UK is voting whether to go Trump(ish) policies or not.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Much ado about nothing. They'd still be in NATO, and they have their own currency anyways.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
136
Well if it's an immigration thing that explains the contention but economically Britain seems to be sitting pretty here, way better than some of the countries that would really benefit from leaving the EU. *coughgreececough*

I **think** its like here. Jobs have grown but pay has not, I believe its thought that reducing competition for jobs will increase wages. Again I'm an American and I only know from brief pieces I've seen on the news/internet.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
Last I saw the polling was running 51/49 in favor of staying. This will be a close one.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,596
7,654
136
Last I saw the polling was running 51/49 in favor of staying. This will be a close one.
I hear polling locations are flooded (flood waters), in locations that favor staying.
If it's close enough to recount, it might be a disaster of a process. ()
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,685
126
Basically, it's nativism. A bunch of chest pounding and flag waving when all they'd be doing is shooting themselves in the dick. From what I've heard there are businesses that have already left the UK just because the potential for leaving the EU makes their business environment too risky.

I thought they wanted immigration and border control.
Could also relate those to jobs.

Basically, UK is voting whether to go Trump(ish) policies or not.

Yup, it's a bunch of pantshitters going 'Nited Kingdom!!

Much ado about nothing. They'd still be in NATO, and they have their own currency anyways.

They'd have to negotiate trade deals with all their neighbors. How easy do you think it will be for Britain to negotiate a trade deal with the US with all the anti TPP crap out there?
 

rumpleforeskin

Senior member
Nov 3, 2008
380
13
81
Alright England guys please give me some pro's and cons. I don't have a horse in this race since I'm American.

Stay:
Better trade arrangements with access to the EU Common market of 500 million people
Better workers rights
Open boarders with EU makes work and travel more efficient
Stronger influence in the world as part of a bigger entity

Leave:
Better trade arrangements with ability to negotiate our own deals with whoever we like
Better workers rights as no longer hampered by EU bureaucracy
Open boarders with EU means UK population cannot be managed
Some countries in the EU are an economic disaster which UK would participate in bailing out (even though we currently have an opt out option on bailouts)
Its costs £23,000,000/day to be a member of the EU

Just a few things
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,834
49,535
136
Stay:
Better trade arrangements with access to the EU Common market of 500 million people
Better workers rights
Open boarders with EU makes work and travel more efficient
Stronger influence in the world as part of a bigger entity

Leave:
Better trade arrangements with ability to negotiate our own deals with whoever we like
Better workers rights as no longer hampered by EU bureaucracy
Open boarders with EU means UK population cannot be managed
Some countries in the EU are an economic disaster which UK would participate in bailing out (even though we currently have an opt out option on bailouts)
Its costs £23,000,000/day to be a member of the EU

Just a few things

That seems like a pretty fair assessment, although one good thing to add would be that the UK is expected to see a permanent contraction of about 1-2% of GDP if they leave the EU, which amounts to billions of pounds each year of lost growth.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
136
Basically, it's nativism. A bunch of chest pounding and flag waving when all they'd be doing is shooting themselves in the dick. From what I've heard there are businesses that have already left the UK just because the potential for leaving the EU makes their business environment too risky.



Yup, it's a bunch of pantshitters going 'Nited Kingdom!!



They'd have to negotiate trade deals with all their neighbors. How easy do you think it will be for Britain to negotiate a trade deal with the US with all the anti TPP crap out there?

Its been proven England is a good reliable partner that plays fair with the US. I wouldn't imagine it would be tough to make those trade deals again plus its not like they are banned from trading with us. The tax mechanisms are already in place.
 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
13,622
2,189
126
Nah, it's not.

First, Brexit is a political platform. Like every other political platform, it actually has zero to do with the issue, which is just scaremongering - "we must DO THING, otherwise BAD THING happens". The Scottish independence campaign was the same thing.

Being in the EU has some practical and some non practical downsides, which those on the platform lament: practical, there's immigration, and we pay more for EU projects; non-practical, we might have a ban on prawn flavoured chips, because every government throws out some retarded law every now and then - they all do.

Immigration is done now; we already don't have jobs, more immigration now means just that the immigrants have a harder time getting *their* jobs. British jobs (those jobs that are gained through nepotism and connections) are not at risk; it's just the immigrant jobs which are at risk now, meaning if you work at Tesco, you will get even less money.

Leaving the EU creates potential for chaos, which is exactly what certain people want. There WILL be massive costs increases, just like there were when the Euro rolled out in 2000, not because of any influencing factor, but because any situation which creates change and confusion is a good chance for speculators - raise prices when everyone else does; and they do it when complex events occur.

i.e. if there was a meteor strike - prices would raise. "Q: why is this sandwich so expensive now? A: the meteor strike." ah ok.
obviously the meteor strike has nothing to do with the change in prices, it's just an excuse. but since every speculator does it, it's impossible to fight the price bump. It's also confusing to see everyone bump prices, and the move looks legit for a while.

During the last leg of the Yes campaign, about half the business leaders in the UK made it VERY CLEAR that if Yes was to pass, prices would go up. BECAUSE.

Britain is also .. honestly, not that great of a nation. They have huge overheads because of these "new" touchy-feely laws, they spend a ton of money on things no reasonable government would, and they no longer have an empire, which is what made britain great in the first place.
As a producer, it cannot compare to Germany, or even Poland. Or, to be correct .. they are on the way down. Their monetary worth is devaluing.

The pound losing a large portion of its worth was obvious from the first day; keeping the pound instead of adopting the euro is irrelevant - from a purely mathematical pov, they are two mintings of the same coin; both are freely exchangable with the other, and the pound no longer has a portion of its worth based on the political stability of the UK, as other EU countries are just as, if not more, stable.
Once a country melds itself to another, so much as we have done, coinage is irrelevant - the two systems will homogenize, if nothing, simply for the fact that as long as one money has more value, it will tend to move towards where it is worth more.

And really, the cold war is over; foreign investors are no longer worried that, idk, the president of Lithuania might want everyone to wear their underwear outside, thus making their money crash. Or force them to learn Swedish, to the same effect.
witty Bananas reference http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066808/reference

I doubt that Britain would have remained a major economical power even if they stayed out of the EU. But anyway, right now they are undeniably no more powerful, and important, than most EU countries; Poland for example, their GDP keeps increasing. Their economy is going up, they are politically stable. Investors believe there's money to be made (it's true) and therefore place more importance on investments located there rather than in the UK.


one last thing..

immigration, border control .. these things are simply impossible in the UK. You really need to live here to understand how
mentally fucked
these people are, it's easily comparable to the URRS. The "humanistic" laws they have here prevent them from doing anything which could possibly harm a fly, yet they somehow want to magically go back to a time where the value of the pound was backed by colonialist trade regimes, exploitation, masses of workers without protection, minimal spending, the draft, and a huge imposing (and badly paid) army in a time of war.

It's not going to happen. They can't kick out of the country people who have arrived illegally and have been caught repeatedly scam the system (also illegal) because "it would hurt their feelings", they surely cannot go back to rum, sodomy and the lash.

if anything, they should stfu and let Angela Merkel tell them what to do, she seems to have far more sense than we do.




do i get any bonus for this post?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
The remarkable thing about the English language is that even the stupidest ideas can be made to seem compelling. Witness Brexit. Witness Trump. Maybe French is just as stupid- witness the xenophobes of Quebec.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,834
49,535
136
Nah, it's not.

First, Brexit is a political platform. Like every other political platform, it actually has zero to do with the issue, which is just scaremongering - "we must DO THING, otherwise BAD THING happens". The Scottish independence campaign was the same thing.

Being in the EU has some practical and some non practical downsides, which those on the platform lament: practical, there's immigration, and we pay more for EU projects; non-practical, we might have a ban on prawn flavoured chips, because every government throws out some retarded law every now and then - they all do.

Immigration is done now; we already don't have jobs, more immigration now means just that the immigrants have a harder time getting *their* jobs. British jobs (those jobs that are gained through nepotism and connections) are not at risk; it's just the immigrant jobs which are at risk now, meaning if you work at Tesco, you will get even less money.

Leaving the EU creates potential for chaos, which is exactly what certain people want. There WILL be massive costs increases, just like there were when the Euro rolled out in 2000, not because of any influencing factor, but because any situation which creates change and confusion is a good chance for speculators - raise prices when everyone else does; and they do it when complex events occur.

i.e. if there was a meteor strike - prices would raise. "Q: why is this sandwich so expensive now? A: the meteor strike." ah ok.
obviously the meteor strike has nothing to do with the change in prices, it's just an excuse. but since every speculator does it, it's impossible to fight the price bump. It's also confusing to see everyone bump prices, and the move looks legit for a while.

During the last leg of the Yes campaign, about half the business leaders in the UK made it VERY CLEAR that if Yes was to pass, prices would go up. BECAUSE.

Britain is also .. honestly, not that great of a nation. They have huge overheads because of these "new" touchy-feely laws, they spend a ton of money on things no reasonable government would, and they no longer have an empire, which is what made britain great in the first place.
As a producer, it cannot compare to Germany, or even Poland. Or, to be correct .. they are on the way down. Their monetary worth is devaluing.

The pound losing a large portion of its worth was obvious from the first day; keeping the pound instead of adopting the euro is irrelevant - from a purely mathematical pov, they are two mintings of the same coin; both are freely exchangable with the other, and the pound no longer has a portion of its worth based on the political stability of the UK, as other EU countries are just as, if not more, stable.
Once a country melds itself to another, so much as we have done, coinage is irrelevant - the two systems will homogenize, if nothing, simply for the fact that as long as one money has more value, it will tend to move towards where it is worth more.

And really, the cold war is over; foreign investors are no longer worried that, idk, the president of Lithuania might want everyone to wear their underwear outside, thus making their money crash. Or force them to learn Swedish, to the same effect.
witty Bananas reference http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066808/reference

I doubt that Britain would have remained a major economical power even if they stayed out of the EU. But anyway, right now they are undeniably no more powerful, and important, than most EU countries; Poland for example, their GDP keeps increasing. Their economy is going up, they are politically stable. Investors believe there's money to be made (it's true) and therefore place more importance on investments located there rather than in the UK.


one last thing..

immigration, border control .. these things are simply impossible in the UK. You really need to live here to understand how
mentally fucked
these people are, it's easily comparable to the URRS. The "humanistic" laws they have here prevent them from doing anything which could possibly harm a fly, yet they somehow want to magically go back to a time where the value of the pound was backed by colonialist trade regimes, exploitation, masses of workers without protection, minimal spending, the draft, and a huge imposing (and badly paid) army in a time of war.

It's not going to happen. They can't kick out of the country people who have arrived illegally and have been caught repeatedly scam the system (also illegal) because "it would hurt their feelings", they surely cannot go back to rum, sodomy and the lash.

if anything, they should stfu and let Angela Merkel tell them what to do, she seems to have far more sense than we do.

do i get any bonus for this post?

While I can't comment about how people feel internally to the UK I can say that the idea that being on the pound or the euro is interchangeable is not accurate. The UK can print as many or as few pounds as their situation requires and the Bank of England can move interest rates in conjunction with the UK's needs while the ECB has to do it for the whole Euro area (despite dramatically different needs between regions)

The UK has unified monetary and fiscal policy right now (for the most part). They would not if they were on the Euro. The last 8 years have showed exactly how important that is.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
While I can't comment about how people feel internally to the UK I can say that the idea that being on the pound or the euro is interchangeable is not accurate. The UK can print as many or as few pounds as their situation requires and the Bank of England can move interest rates in conjunction with the UK's needs while the ECB has to do it for the whole Euro area (despite dramatically different needs between regions)

The UK has unified monetary and fiscal policy right now (for the most part). They would not if they were on the Euro. The last 8 years have showed exactly how important that is.

Correct. The Euro is a big part of the reason that Greeks are sooo screwed.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
As a selfish American I just hope what ever decision is made it doesn't make the market dive
 

rumpleforeskin

Senior member
Nov 3, 2008
380
13
81
You get a point for the post, even though some fact checking would have been nice.

As a producer, it cannot compare to Germany, or even Poland. Or, to be correct .. they are on the way down. Their monetary worth is devaluing.

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=EUR&view=5Y
If anything it looks like the pound has been gaining strength since the financial crysis, and prior to 2008 the pound was stronger still.


I doubt that Britain would have remained a major economical power even if they stayed out of the EU. But anyway, right now they are undeniably no more powerful, and important, than most EU countries.

The most recent World Economics League Table from the CEBR believes the UK GDP will outpace that of Germany within the next 20 years, though I think a revised version if the UK left the EU would not paint such a rosy picture
http://www.cebr.com/reports/welt-2016/
 
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