Today's lesson in perspective

[IronWing]

The median household net worth in the U.S. is $166,900 (2021, most current available data). That's about 2.5 kg worth of gold.


Converting Musk's net worth to gold (3041 tons) and trying to move it would require seven and a half loads of Cat's largest haul truck.

 

[KMFJD]

every billionaire is a policy failure, need to tax them a hell of a lot more

'Every Billionaire Is a Policy Failure,' Says Oxfam as Global Elite Gather in Davos | Common Dreams

As the world's corporate and political elite convened in Davos, Switzerland for the first winter World Economic Forum in three years, an analysis published Monday by Oxfam International found that the global rich have captured nearly two-thirds of all wealth generated since 2020.

www.commondreams.org

 

[Charmonium]

Eh, I've seen bigger swamp buggies.

REDNECKS FOREVARRRRRRR

edit - they have to big so the skeeters can't carry them off.

 

[MrSquished]

It's Not just Elon musk's wealth that is an abomination, The man himself is also one.

 

[RearAdmiral]

Jeez I would've guessed higher for the median net worth just based on homeownership.

 

[Greenman]

every billionaire is a policy failure, need to tax them a hell of a lot more

'Every Billionaire Is a Policy Failure,' Says Oxfam as Global Elite Gather in Davos | Common Dreams

As the world's corporate and political elite convened in Davos, Switzerland for the first winter World Economic Forum in three years, an analysis published Monday by Oxfam International found that the global rich have captured nearly two-thirds of all wealth generated since 2020.

www.commondreams.org

I don't think I like the idea of a net worth or assets tax.

 

[IronWing]

I don't think I like the idea of a net worth or assets tax.

We already have asset taxes at the the low end of the scale (houses), just not for the kind of assets the very wealthy tend to hoard.

 

[Ajay]

I don't think I like the idea of a net worth or assets tax.

On the extremely wealthy or just on yourself?

 

[Greenman]

We already have asset taxes at the the low end of the scale (houses), just not for the kind of assets the very wealthy tend to hoard.

On the extremely wealthy or just on yourself?

Both.

 

[Ajay]

Both.

Well, somebody from their class, or our class is going to have to kick in more money to replace aging schools, airports, roads, bridges and keep SS afloat and so on. Who would you rather it be? They are willing to spend $$Billions to make sure it’s us. I say screw that.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Asset taxes shouldn't be a thing. It's not right that one can spend their whole life saving up for their house, boat, cottage etc, but then be punished for it and in some cases may even have to give it up because they can't afford the taxes on it anymore when they retire. Any policy you try to target "the rich" with will also apply to everyone else including middle class. Middle class people who are smart with their money can still participate in rich people things like having assets, if they save up. We shouldn't be punished on stuff that we worked for. That money was already taxed when it was earned. IMO property taxes shouldn't even be a thing either. I would rather see a municipal income tax to fund municipal infrastructure/services. At least then you can retire and not be stuck with a huge ongoing tax bill because you have a big house that you worked hard for all your life. Income tax is probably the fairest form of tax as it's based on how much you make that year. So you make less, you pay less. If you want to go after the rich then fix the income tax system so that they have to pay into it too instead of being able to use loopholes to get out of it. Trump for example pays like around $1,000/year in taxes, that's less than I pay per pay cheque, that is something that needs to change. ideally we also need fairer brackets. With inflation, making 100k is not even that rich anymore, so why should someone making 100k be in one of the highest brackets? I'd rather see the government shrink and then have a flat 10% tax so that we all pay way less, but that's another topic. If we're going to keep the current system at least make it more fair so only the ultra rich are paying the higher brackets.

Sure it sucks that some rich people just hoard a bunch of money or buy rediculous assets but life is not fair. If Musk wants to play with his rockets or buy a website for billions or Trump wants to own a bunch of high rise buildings then that should be their right. Just make sure that they pay lot of tax on the income. What they do with the remainder should be their right after that.

 

[dullard]

Asset taxes shouldn't be a thing. It's not right that one can spend their whole life saving up for their house, boat, cottage etc, but then be punished for it and in some cases may even have to give it up because they can't afford the taxes on it anymore when they retire. Any policy you try to target "the rich" with will also apply to everyone else including middle class. Middle class people who are smart with their money can still participate in rich people things like having assets, if they save up. We shouldn't be punished on stuff that we worked for. That money was already taxed when it was earned. IMO property taxes shouldn't even be a thing either. I would rather see a municipal income tax to fund municipal infrastructure/services. At least then you can retire and not be stuck with a huge ongoing tax bill because you have a big house that you worked hard for all your life. Income tax is probably the fairest form of tax as it's based on how much you make that year. So you make less, you pay less. If you want to go after the rich then fix the income tax system so that they have to pay into it too instead of being able to use loopholes to get out of it. Trump for example pays like around $1,000/year in taxes, that's less than I pay per pay cheque, that is something that needs to change. ideally we also need fairer brackets. With inflation, making 100k is not even that rich anymore, so why should someone making 100k be in one of the highest brackets? I'd rather see the government shrink and then have a flat 10% tax so that we all pay way less, but that's another topic. If we're going to keep the current system at least make it more fair so only the ultra rich are paying the higher brackets.

Sure it sucks that some rich people just hoard a bunch of money or buy rediculous assets but life is not fair. If Musk wants to play with his rockets or buy a website for billions or Trump wants to own a bunch of high rise buildings then that should be their right. Just make sure that they pay lot of tax on the income. What they do with the remainder should be their right after that.

I argue the exact opposite.

• Income taxes discourage work--harming the economy. Plus, as they currently are structured, they lead to drastic inequalities.
• Sales taxes discourage spending--harming the economy. Plus, they punish the poor who spend all of their money while the rich who spend little of their money are barely taxed. There are complex and costly non-taxed goods systems to help reduce the problem, but no matter how you parse it, the poor will pay a far higher percentage than the wealthy.
• Wealth taxes (such as asset taxes) boost the economy. Want to lower your asset tax bill? Buy some things. Major economic boosts will happen as the ultra wealthy buy all kinds of services to reduce their tax bills. They'd hire nearly every single feasible unemployed person to do more services for them to reduce their taxes.

I'd be quite thrilled with NO income tax, NO sales tax, but 100% tax upon death (with single* spouse/children under 18 survival exceptions). Imagine your whole life without paying a penny in tax--ever. Only when you die do you pay tax and you won't care then, because, well, you are dead. That can only happen with asset taxes. *Single as in if a husband/wife dies, the wife/husband gets the property, but if the wife then dies it does not transfer tax free to future husbands/wives.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I do agree income tax needs serious restructuring. IMO it needs to be much lower, and structured in a way where the lower and middle class pays way less. Only make the brackets go up once you start hitting millions. Sales tax we should get rid of imo we pay more than enough via income. Shrink the government to compensate. It's gotten too big.

But asset taxes would actually discourage from buying things. If I buy a house or boat or whatever and now I have to pay taxes on it every month then at some point renting becomes cheaper. I really don't want to have to rent, I rather own, and shouldn't have to pay for life for that.

Wealth taxes, if actually targeted at the ultra rich could work, the problem is when they write these sort of policies it does not work out that way. Someone like me that owns a home and a separate 40 acre property would be seen as ultra wealthy by such a policy, even though I saved up for years to buy that and don't have that much money.

Zero taxes would be great, and only pay at death, but I don't think that would be enough to pay for healthcare etc. I get we need SOME taxes but they need to be way less and used more efficiently.

 

[dullard]

But asset taxes would actually discourage from buying things. If I buy a house or boat or whatever and now I have to pay taxes on it every month then at some point renting becomes cheaper. I really don't want to have to rent, I rather own, and shouldn't have to pay for life for that.

Not necessarily. A pure asset tax would not have that discouragement. Have $30k cash/banked? That is taxed. Have a $30k boat? That is taxed the exact same amount as the $30k of liquid assets. Structured that way, there is no reason to avoid buying that boat or that house.

The main downside is that assets aren't usually double reported. With an income tax, incomes are usually double reported. The employer has an incentive to report a high wage as that lowers their tax and the employee has an incentive to report a low wage as that increases their tax. With a little enforcement the two forces balance. In most cases, both the employer and the employee report the same income. That double reporting isn't there with asset taxes. So there is an increased chance of cheating.

 

[Red Squirrel]

But if I have a 30k boat I may have spent 10 years saving up for that, why should I keep having to pay tax over and over on it? And now I have to sell it if I choose to retire because I can't afford the taxes anymore.

At least with income tax you only pay the tax once.

 

[Shmee]

This seems to have gotten rather political all of a sudden lol. Well, I wish I had some gold.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Been meaning to buy gold, but I keep buying silver instead, it's cheaper so I have more shiny for the money. Should probably diversify and buy at least an oz or two of gold though.

 

[Shmee]

I want to hoard platinum!

 

[IronWing]

I hoard granite.

 

[lxskllr]

I hoard wood.

 

[Ajay]

I'd be quite thrilled with NO income tax, NO sales tax, but 100% tax upon death (with single* spouse/children under 18 survival exceptions). Imagine your whole life without paying a penny in tax--ever. Only when you die do you pay tax and you won't care then, because, well, you are dead. That can only happen with asset taxes. *Single as in if a husband/wife dies, the wife/husband gets the property, but if the wife then dies it does not transfer tax free to future husbands/wives.

I wouldn’t be in favor of a 100% death tax on all assets. It’s very natural for parents who have saved and/or invested well to want to pass some of that on to their children. A tax law that completely bypasses natural maternal and paternal instincts would be unjust in my opinion. So there are lines that need to be drawn. One area that would need to be addressed are certain types of trusts that allow all assets to be passes tax free to adult children - most typically in wealthy families.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Jeez I would've guessed higher for the median net worth just based on homeownership.

Very few people own the buildings they live in. VERY few.

I happen to be one of them.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I hoard wood.

Been starting to do that myself too actually. I still need to get the wood stove install finished though... I really should have focused more on that this summer.

Here's one stash I got for free:

https://imgur.com/a/IANSTCi

Just had to cut it up.

 

[IronWing]

I hoard cellulite.

 

[lxskllr]

Dunno what the tree service industry is like up near you, and how close your off grid property is to anything, but you could probably get wood free from tree companies, and they'll drop if off at your property. You'd get a lot of shit wood, but you have the space to make it disappear.