Toddler kills himself with mother's gun

[ThisIsMyUsrname]

That is an example of negligence on the part of the manufacturer and not the parent. Assuming they followed the assembly instructions to the letter or hired someone to put it together....

Not exactly the subject of the thread, imo.


...

It's not negligence at all, it just came apart with wear. It's like an old chair breaking after a few years.

 

[jlee]

Would you say that if you were in her shoes? Gun aside, you let your kid drown in your pool, you let your dog kill your child. Your child snuck out of the house and you ran over her....

Safety first.

http://www.m1-garand-rifle.com/gun-safety/firearms-versus-swimming-pools.php

Speaking of pools.

I have one. Good thing I don't have kids.

 

[highland145]

That is an example of negligence on the part of the manufacturer and not the parent. Assuming they followed the assembly instructions to the letter or hired someone to put it together....

Not exactly the subject of the thread, imo.


...

If it does prevent at least one tragedy I say prosecute the crap out of her.

That is the goal, as you posted.


I can't imagine the loss of my child. The fact that I could have prevented it would be insurmountable. There are no words.

 

[irishScott]

I doubt that you're also lugging a toddler around while you're carrying your firearm. While the mandating of firearms with "smart triggers" is understandably an infringement for some...

It should be an option for those who want such a firearm and you yourself said that death threats toward a shop owner who wanted to sell such firearms is stupid.

And they limited that shop owner's freedom to provide another option for potential customers.


....

I haven't to date, but why not? If I'm carrying a child they're well above my waist and well away from my gun, their hands are on or around my shoulders. Sure I'll be conscious of it just to be on the safe side, but the way current smart-gun tech works (RFID) if they grab my gun why I'm holding them they'll be holding it close enough for the RFID to register; that's already assuming the fantastic case of a child I'm holding turning upside-down, reaching deep into my pocket and pulling out an 18 oz gun without my noticing. Pretty sure I'd have to be drunk for that to happen, and if I'm drinking heavily my gun is locked up well beforehand.

I agree the threats are moronic, and in a perfect world yes such technology should be available. The fear is of those who would exploit such technology to enact a defacto ban. The Armatix costs $1400 by itself, with another $400 for the RFID watch. There are a few state legislatures who would absolutely love for every new gun sold to cost $1800, while covering up their real intentions in the name of "common sense safety features". By contrast the most popular guns on the market (Glock, M&P, XD, etc) are less than $600. California's already trying something similar, albeit not as extreme by requiring micro-stamping; a measure currently being challenged in court.

Sure such measures probably wouldn't stand up to court scrutiny, what with SCOTUS ruling that the 2nd amendment protects guns "in common use", but that's a road the pro-gun community doesn't want to go down; just another political battle of attrition; and per the New Jersey law alone it would be forced to go down if such guns became available.

 

[dabuddha]

I can't even imagine the sorrow she is feeling.
I see no point in prosecuting her; her life is already ruined.

This. Though she's a stupid irresponsible fucking wise and beautiful woman, there isn't much more you can do to her. That's assuming she didn't kill the kid and claim the kid did it himself /conspiracy

But if her story is kosher, just thinking about it is heart breaking (for the kid).

 

[sandorski]

So you're basing your whole argument on on a small sample of gun owners, and not the majority?

Do you think she was an irresponsible gun owner before this happened?

 

[ThisIsMyUsrname]

Do you think she was an irresponsible gun owner before this happened?

Yes. Carry a gun in a holster, not in a purse with a bazillion other things in it. And if you're home, take it out and put it somewhere safe.

 

[sandorski]

Yes. Carry a gun in a holster, not in a purse with a bazillion other things in it. And if you're home, take it out and put it somewhere safe.

I really doubt she thought that. In retrospect we can see she was, but that's a different issue.

 

[skyking]

similar case with toddler and mom's gun in an Idaho Walmart, only the mother was killed. Kids get into purses, not a good carry location. I think the "attractive nuisance" aspect has a lot to do with it. Unless you heat the gun up on the wood stove and let them get burned a few times, they are going to want to touch it, mess with it.

 

[rh71]

When my kids were three (terrible twos & threes), there weren't many seconds I wasn't aware of what they were up to. If I had a gun in the house you can bet they would have zero access to it. You would think it's common sense.

 

[rh71]

Separate question. Say you have such an emergency and you lived 6 blocks from the hospital (less than a mile). Would you drive your kid over instead of calling an ambulance?

 

[edro]

Friend's 4 yo swallowed a screw that came loose from a crib. Should the mother be prosecuted because the child died?

Are you shitting me? This actually happened to someone you knew?
OMG, being a parent is stressful as hell.

I am a new parent and the worst possible thing I can imagine is losing a child.

 

[highland145]

Separate question. Say you have such an emergency and you lived 6 blocks from the hospital (less than a mile). Would you drive your kid over instead of calling an ambulance?

Think it would depend on the emergency. Head/spine, ambulance. Arterial spray, drive.

Are you shitting me? This actually happened to someone you knew?
OMG, being a parent is stressful as hell.

Unfortunately, yes.

I am a new parent and the worst possible thing I can imagine is losing a child.

Grats and agreed. If you dwell on the "might happen", you'll go nuts.

 

[rh71]

Are you shitting me? This actually happened to someone you knew?
OMG, being a parent is stressful as hell.

I am a new parent and the worst possible thing I can imagine is losing a child.

It's only stressful like that the first 5 or so years. Thankfully my kids didn't have a fascination with putting things in their mouth (don't let them do the pacifier thing if you can help it). After they start becoming independent you feel easier about letting them out of your sight for longer than 10 minutes. I still don't let my 6yos outside on their own other than school, but I've heard others who'd let a 6yo walk to school on their own.

 

[highland145]

It's only stressful like that the first 5 or so years. After they start becoming independent you feel easier about letting them out of your sight for longer than 10 minutes. I still don't let my 6yos outside on their own other than school, but I've heard others who'd let a 6yo walk to school on their own.

I did but that was before the media made us all afraid that a child molester lurks behind every tree.

 

[rh71]

I did but that was before the media made us all afraid that a child molester lurks behind every tree.

We have a level 3 sex offender in our town. That means he's likely to do it again. He's been spotted at local stores chatting up teens to help him with his "solar business". Records show that he drugged a teen girl whom he actually knew. Predators have existed from the beginning but now we can easily spread the information so we're not ignorant of the dangers in our own backyard like years past.

Also the other thing is you have a lot more inattentive drivers these days for obvious reasons. Your 6yo could know all the rules, but he can't dodge a car that should have stopped.

 

[chitwood]

Are you shitting me? This actually happened to someone you knew?
OMG, being a parent is stressful as hell.

I am a new parent and the worst possible thing I can imagine is losing a child.

this x 100000

ours is 5 months old. The thought of anything bad happening is just my worst nightmare.

Related:
friend from work has an 8 month old, she told me about a month ago that her, her mom, and baby were leaving the DMV. Mom didn't see the curb step and tripped and fell. While holding the baby. They both hit the pavement hard. Rush to hospital, other than a scratch on baby's forehead, everything is fine. I'm hearing this story and thinking about the 'rush to the hospital' part... what are you thinking during that drive? How can you even function, with tears in your eyes and so much doubt and uncertainty in your mind? My heart can't take it.

Why do I read threads like this

 

[rh71]

^ I tripped down my own stairs trying to avoid stepping on a toy I saw at the last second while holding one of my boys. I had to jump with my other leg mid-step and soften the landing but landed on the side of my foot, fracturing it, but my boy was ok as I consciously shielded him as I fell. 6 weeks in a boot and I still hold that over his head to this day haha.

 

[blankslate]

I haven't to date, but why not? If I'm carrying a child they're well above my waist and well away from my gun, their hands are on or around my shoulders. Sure I'll be conscious of it just to be on the safe side, but the way current smart-gun tech works (RFID) if they grab my gun why I'm holding them they'll be holding it close enough for the RFID to register; that's already assuming the fantastic case of a child I'm holding turning upside-down, reaching deep into my pocket and pulling out an 18 oz gun without my noticing. Pretty sure I'd have to be drunk for that to happen, and if I'm drinking heavily my gun is locked up well beforehand.

I agree the threats are moronic, and in a perfect world yes such technology should be available. The fear is of those who would exploit such technology to enact a defacto ban. The Armatix costs $1400 by itself, with another $400 for the RFID watch. There are a few state legislatures who would absolutely love for every new gun sold to cost $1800, while covering up their real intentions in the name of "common sense safety features". By contrast the most popular guns on the market (Glock, M&P, XD, etc) are less than $600. California's already trying something similar, albeit not as extreme by requiring micro-stamping; a measure currently being challenged in court.

Sure such measures probably wouldn't stand up to court scrutiny, what with SCOTUS ruling that the 2nd amendment protects guns "in common use", but that's a road the pro-gun community doesn't want to go down; just another political battle of attrition; and per the New Jersey law alone it would be forced to go down if such guns became available.

then you are a much more responsible person which your firearm around children than this mother tragically was. More people should follow your example.

I agree mandating uber expensive safety-features is unreasonable as it's a backdoor way of keeping firearms out of the hands of people who aren't as well off.

I would however support allowing a person with one of those firearms to keep it in their residence in states like New York with a standard capacity magazine (which could be 10-15 perhaps 20 rounds depending on the caliber).


.....

 

[blankslate]

It's not negligence at all, it just came apart with wear. It's like an old chair breaking after a few years.

That goes into other issues.... the push toward cheaper prices and as a result more shoddy workmanship. The root causes of such would be a P&N subject imo.

But that is still not the same as me not watching a child near a swimming pool or being complacent while carrying a firearm on my person around a child.



....

 

[dawheat]

No, you wouldn't. Friend's 4 yo swallowed a screw that came loose from a crib. Should the mother be prosecuted because the child died?

What's reasonable negligence and when should people be charged for it?

If you go to one extreme, then basically no one should ever charged for a death based on poor judgement, as long as they had no intent to kill anyone. This could include say speeding drivers or companies that don't follow safety regulations.

The other extreme would be equally unjust as in the above example, shit sometimes happens and it's impossible to control what kids do 100% of the time.

This case is somewhere in the middle. I do think it should be up to a jury to determine if her negligence is criminal.

 

[ThisIsMyUsrname]

That goes into other issues.... the push toward cheaper prices and as a result more shoddy workmanship. The root causes of such would be a P&N subject imo.

But that is still not the same as me not watching a child near a swimming pool or being complacent while carrying a firearm on my person around a child.



....

+1

In the case with the crib, it's not negligence because you can't control the crib screw coming off. In the case of the OP, it is negligence because you should know better than to keep a loaded and cocked gun in your purse where your child plays.

 

[CoPhotoGuy]

That just proves my point.

No, you were saying that every gun owner is a responsible gun owner. That is not true. You're also implying that it is not possible to be a responsible gun owner. That is also not true.

 

[CoPhotoGuy]

Do you think she was an irresponsible gun owner before this happened?

Yes.

 

[Rustler]

We have this happen a lot here in Phoenix, Az with pools, people become unattentive and little ones drown, the guilt that they have to bear must be incredible same for this mother who will have to live with this for the rest of her life.............he who is without sin can cast the first stone..........