"Tom Brady prefer his balls to feel a certain way" - balls underinflated

[slayer202]

or maybe it's because they bench you for the season if you fumble

so we should see a huge increase in patriots fumbles this year?

 

[TheSlamma]

so we should see a huge increase in patriots fumbles this year?

Si

 

[Capt Caveman]

Long term competitive advantage?

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.co...iots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

And that report has already been debunked for missing data for making their assumptions.

 

[ccryder]

hey let's make up a number, with the help of a tiny sample set, that reinforces the outcome we already want

As a NH native and proud wearer of both "Squish the fish" and "Bury the Bears" T shirts, I am probably just a little biased toward NE, but it looks like they cheated yet again.

The sample size was over years, and fivethirtyeight researched it themselves and found the fumble rate suspicious.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/fivethirtyeight-dissects-the-deflategate-report/

 

[Capt Caveman]

As a NH native and proud wearer of both "Squish the fish" and "Bury the Bears" T shirts, I am probably just a little biased toward NE, but it looks like they cheated yet again.

The sample size was over years, and fivethirtyeight researched it themselves and found the fumble rate suspicious.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/fivethirtyeight-dissects-the-deflategate-report/

Yawn

http://insidethepylon.com/football-.../27/fumbling-data-truth-patriots-fumble-rate/

http://regressing.deadspin.com/why-those-statistics-about-the-patriots-fumbles-are-mos-1681805710

 

[NoCreativity]

As a NH native and proud wearer of both "Squish the fish" and "Bury the Bears" T shirts, I am probably just a little biased toward NE, but it looks like they cheated yet again.

The sample size was over years, and fivethirtyeight researched it themselves and found the fumble rate suspicious.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/fivethirtyeight-dissects-the-deflategate-report/

Wow. So the guy takes a set of flawed data (which he admitted had issues) to perform his own analysis that miraculously comes up with a similar result as the original analysis. Absolutely brilliant.

 

[Phoenix86]

Yawn

http://insidethepylon.com/football-.../27/fumbling-data-truth-patriots-fumble-rate/

http://regressing.deadspin.com/why-those-statistics-about-the-patriots-fumbles-are-mos-1681805710

That's the rebuttal I mentioned, and no, it doesn't address everything. You read past the title, right? Bickering about axis not starting at 0, questioning why you would have someone verify your work if you're an expert, and making even WORSE data manipulation errors (see below).

I actually went back and researched 5 year periods for the entire NFL over the last 25 years. The Patriots ratio of 187 plays to 1 fumble is the BEST of ANY team in the NFL for ANY 5 year span of time over the last 25 years. Not was it just the best, it wasn't close:

1. 2010-2014 Patriots: 187 plays/fumble

2. 2009-2013 Patriots: 156 plays/fumble

3. 2006-2010 Colts: 156 plays/fumble

Here, the author curiously ranks the Patriots #2 and the Colts #3, despite the fact that the teams appear to have the same number of plays per fumble (156).

OK, so he's comparing various 5 year periods. WTF is your point here again? 156 plays/fumble is simply not 187. That's a 20% difference, go ahead and plot the data points he lists, 187 is a major outlier, and he's cherry picking the best teams in 5 different 5 year periods.

As the age gap expands so does the validation. You don't compare a team in the 70s to a team in the 10s because the game changes. As you approach a single year difference it's closer, but even then it's different.

The author's conclusion why the Colts and Pats have similar numbers equally silly.

Why does this matter?

Because, Manning and Brady are generally among the quickest in football at getting rid of the ball when dropping back to throw. In fact, according to Pro Football Focus (PFF), Manning led the league in time-to-throw in 2014, at a lightning-quick 2.24 seconds. Brady finished 3rd in 2014, and also ranked 3rd, 1st, and 4th between 2011 and 2013 (PFF stats only go as far back as 2011). Even better, Brady also posted the league's lowest sack-per-dropback rate in 2014.

You heard that right. Lightning fast time to throw = less fumbles.

Wait. WHAT? Sure it helps, but ... Rushing QBs will get around 4-5 fumbles in a year, more passing oriented QBs will get about 2-4 and really good passing QBs will get around 1-2. That's a difference of about 1-2 fumbles per year for the team.

OK, so he massages the numbers a bit and comes up with this chart

AH-HA! Wait... No, NE is still an outlier, and you didn't address the main point in the original article. How did they go from such a high rate to a low one?

 

[BrokenVisage]

That's the rebuttal I mentioned, and no, it doesn't address everything. You read past the title, right? Bickering about axis not starting at 0, questioning why you would have someone verify your work if you're an expert, and making even WORSE data manipulation errors (see below).

I actually went back and researched 5 year periods for the entire NFL over the last 25 years. The Patriots ratio of 187 plays to 1 fumble is the BEST of ANY team in the NFL for ANY 5 year span of time over the last 25 years. Not was it just the best, it wasn't close:

1. 2010-2014 Patriots: 187 plays/fumble

2. 2009-2013 Patriots: 156 plays/fumble

3. 2006-2010 Colts: 156 plays/fumble

Here, the author curiously ranks the Patriots #2 and the Colts #3, despite the fact that the teams appear to have the same number of plays per fumble (156).

OK, so he's comparing various 5 year periods. WTF is your point here again? 156 plays/fumble is simply not 187. That's a 20% difference, go ahead and plot the data points he lists, 187 is a major outlier, and he's cherry picking the best teams in 5 different 5 year periods.

As the age gap expands so does the validation. You don't compare a team in the 70s to a team in the 10s because the game changes. As you approach a single year difference it's closer, but even then it's different.

The author's conclusion why the Colts and Pats have similar numbers equally silly.

Why does this matter?

Because, Manning and Brady are generally among the quickest in football at getting rid of the ball when dropping back to throw. In fact, according to Pro Football Focus (PFF), Manning led the league in time-to-throw in 2014, at a lightning-quick 2.24 seconds. Brady finished 3rd in 2014, and also ranked 3rd, 1st, and 4th between 2011 and 2013 (PFF stats only go as far back as 2011). Even better, Brady also posted the league's lowest sack-per-dropback rate in 2014.

You heard that right. Lightning fast time to throw = less fumbles.

Wait. WHAT? Sure it helps, but ... Rushing QBs will get around 4-5 fumbles in a year, more passing oriented QBs will get about 2-4 and really good passing QBs will get around 1-2. That's a difference of about 1-2 fumbles per year for the team.

OK, so he massages the numbers a bit and comes up with this chart

AH-HA! Wait... No, NE is still an outlier, and you didn't address the main point in the original article. How did they go from such a high rate to a low one?

Quoted for truth.

 

[BUTCH1]

IMPO Brady, like most NFL QB's is anal about how the game balls are prepared but if he had come out in the beggining of this whole mess and simply stated , "yea, I like a ball as low as possible" and admitted to it and admitted to instructing the ball handlers making it that way most of the seam would have been let out of "deflate-gate" right then and there. Now it's been proven he lied to people about "not even knowing who handles the balls" and refused to hand over his phone for the investigation will defiantly increase the punishment meted out by the league. I wish it wasn't so but it is what is is and he will pay the price in the end.

 

[videogames101]

If we're using these text messages as evidence, then can we ask why the refs put the balls at 16 PSI, completely out of spec? The fact is no one (including the refs and by proxy the NFL) gave two shits about the PSI rule until the colts or whoever decided to whine about it. This remains a non-story. How can you all care so much about the PSI in a football, when in reality it makes little to no difference and in reality the refs didn't give a damn either.

 

[Phoenix86]

If we're using these text messages as evidence, then can we ask why the refs put the balls at 16 PSI, completely out of spec? The fact is no one (including the refs and by proxy the NFL) gave two shits about the PSI rule until the colts or whoever decided to whine about it. This remains a non-story. How can you all care so much about the PSI in a football, when in reality it makes little to no difference and in reality the refs didn't give a damn either.

Quoted for hilarity when punishment is handed down and flat ignorance. I don't expect heavy punishment, but it'll be there and we'll see how much of a non-story it is.

Ball pressure doesn't matter.

Remember when the NHL tested a new puck with a sensor in it that allowed the camera to "show" the puck when it was behind the wall? It weighted the same, had the same balance for all practical purposes it should have been the same. It wasn't. Players noticed the difference and because they didn't have access to the expensive pucks for practice it was killed (one of the reasons).

Everything about the ball matters. It's why most of the process is rigorously controlled from manufacturing to storage. They need to change the rules and have the refs/league handle the balls.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Quoted for hilarity when punishment is handed down and flat ignorance. I don't expect heavy punishment, but it'll be there and we'll see how much of a non-story it is.

Ball pressure doesn't matter.

Remember when the NHL tested a new puck with a sensor in it that allowed the camera to "show" the puck when it was behind the wall? It weighted the same, had the same balance for all practical purposes it should have been the same. It wasn't. Players noticed the difference and because they didn't have access to the expensive pucks for practice it was killed (one of the reasons).

Everything about the ball matters. It's why most of the process is rigorously controlled from manufacturing to storage. They need to change the rules and have the refs/league handle the balls.

Then why no investigation or punishment for Indy for having 3 out of 4 balls under inflated? Why only a warning to the Vikings and Panters for heating up balls on the sidelines during a game?

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-v...of-game-ball-incident-during-panthers-vikings

 

[Phoenix86]

Then why no investigation or punishment for Indy for having 3 out of 4 balls under inflated? Why only a warning to the Vikings and Panters for heating up balls on the sidelines during a game?

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-v...of-game-ball-incident-during-panthers-vikings

You seem to think that me arguing for investigation/punishment for NE means I wouldn't support it for other teams. If the Cowboys are doing shit like this, I'd support the same thing for them.

All of this goes away if the NFL handles the balls, so the better question is, why hasn't that changed?

NFL front office is a joke, I'm not going to pretend to explain why they do or don't do shit. Come on man...

 

[emperus]

If we're using these text messages as evidence, then can we ask why the refs put the balls at 16 PSI, completely out of spec? The fact is no one (including the refs and by proxy the NFL) gave two shits about the PSI rule until the colts or whoever decided to whine about it. This remains a non-story. How can you all care so much about the PSI in a football, when in reality it makes little to no difference and in reality the refs didn't give a damn either.

I'm slowly making my through the report. And I think that is the bigger part of the story noone is talking about. If it is such a big deal, why would the refs pump the balls to 16 psi? And how did they not notice they were at 16 PSI?

Also, it is peculiar that Wells seems to take parts of the text that he finds useful to make his point, but act like others don't exist. So in regards to that episode. I had a few questions. If this had been going on for a long time. Why weren't the balls in the October 2014 Patriots/Jets game deflated? That would seem like a good time to do it no? An October game against a division rival? How did the "deflator" not deflate the balls that Brady complained about and were then found to be at 16 PSI? Also if Brady had someone deflate the balls, why would he care to give the Referees a copy of the rules governing the right pressure of the balls?

In addition, Brady stated that he suggested that the Patriots give the game officials a copy of Rule 2 when they delivered game balls prior to each game, so that the officials would know that it was not necessary to inflate them further.

 

[TheSlamma]

I just can't wait for all the antics when every team is out there checking the balls every game. well deserved.

 

[BUTCH1]

Then why no investigation or punishment for Indy for having 3 out of 4 balls under inflated? Why only a warning to the Vikings and Panters for heating up balls on the sidelines during a game?

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-v...of-game-ball-incident-during-panthers-vikings

Thing is Brady lied to all of us and it's a head-scratcher X1000, you've built up a HOF career, won 4 SB's and from now on everyone will wrongly think your achievements were due to a ball being 1.2 PSI lower than 12.5, why on God's green earth would you even THINK of these shenanigans?. But that's not quite dumb enough, like you and the "deflator" could not afford $30 Wal-mart phones to text with?. Goodell HATES being lied to, he knows, heck all of us know that the 1.2 PSI has nothing with Brady's gridiron success but that will not matter in his or Vincent's eyes, your infraction was minor IMO but your denial and lies will be the sledgehammer that nails you Tom.

 

[brianmanahan]

ive never seen an ATOT thread with this much coincidental innuendo

edit: imho, brady should be permabanned

 

[rudeguy]

Bye bye Tom!



http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/foo...spend-tom-brady-deflategate-article-1.2215881

 

[BUTCH1]

Bye bye Tom!



http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/foo...spend-tom-brady-deflategate-article-1.2215881

Yea, that's not exactly new news, pretty much everyone expects a suspension, but as to the length of it no one knows, my guess is 4 games. Anyway John Stewart rip's Brady a new one in this LOL report..http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jon-stewart-destroys-cheating-f-k-tom-brady-article-1.2215185

 

[slayer202]

he will appeal. how does the process work? arbitrator? no way there's enough evidence to say tom explicitly told them to under inflate. I'd guess it was more like Brady told them that he likes the balls as low as possible, maybe with a wink wink sort of agreement. eh, fuck the nfl

 

[BUTCH1]

he will appeal. how does the process work? arbitrator? no way there's enough evidence to say tom explicitly told them to under inflate. I'd guess it was more like Brady told them that he likes the balls as low as possible, maybe with a wink wink sort of agreement. eh, fuck the nfl

While I'm upset about what Brady apparently did I have to LOL @ Goodell who goes on and on about "the integrity of the game" but yet he let the 1st half of a championship game go on with advance knowledge that the Patriot's might be tampering with balls. As I've said before, the way Rozell would have handled it would be to issue a memo to all the teams that reports of possible ball tampering have come to my attention and balls will be checked at various times during games to ensure compliance with inflation standards. That would have probably eliminated the issue right then and there, was it fair to let the Colts play in a game you suspected the balls were not inflated to proper spec?. That doesn't make what Brady and the two handlers any less guilty but it seems you were more interested in conducting your "sting" and get some of the heat from the Rice and Peterson situations off your back.

 

[brainhulk]

Bye bye Tom!



http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/foo...spend-tom-brady-deflategate-article-1.2215881

Pats should lose draft picks and be ineligible for the playoffs too

 

[BUTCH1]

Pats should lose draft picks and be ineligible for the playoffs too

Draft picks, possible, "ineligible for the playoff's", no, that would be unfairly punishing the rest of the team for something they did not know about. My guess if a 4 game suspension and a hefty fine with a possible loss of future draft picks.

 

[cabri]

The report admits that there is no direct evidence; just indirect and innuendo. Assumptions that because one person said something; that Brady had to have been responsible.

Because the NFL allowed this issue (game) to potentially go forward and their own officials did nothing to ensure the integrity; the league is as much responsible and they want to claim Brady is.

They were gunning for the Patriots; possbile because of the Raven's game

 

[The Boston Dangler]

so, everyone is calling for brady's head because of "probable". not only is that totally inconclusive but others are going unpunished, barely even mentioned, for allegedly committing the same act.

i LOL in your general direction

and if you think there will be any selective penalty for this selective enforcement, guess again. who does goodell work for? robert kraft.