http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/05/14/r600_finally_dx10_hardware_from_ati/
Finally a website we can trust.
I found that really interesting.
Finally a website we can trust.
I found that really interesting.
Is R600 worth the wait? That is the question that has been on our minds ever since ATI first delayed R600. In November, Nvidia unveiled G80 in the form of GeForce 8800 GTX and GTS models. Three months went by and the only thing we heard out of ATI was that R600 was delayed. As a preemptive strike in February, Nvidia launched its 320 MB version of the 8800 GTS, figuring ATI was ready for its launch. By the end of the month, the world was let down by yet another message telling us R600 would be delayed until May. Last month, Nvidia made its third DX10 offering in the form of GeForce 8600 and 8500 cards. Having struck first, Nvidia has a hat trick with G80, G84 and G86, and it seemed to be game over for AMD/ATI. Today, we finally get to see ATI's counter strike against Nvidia after a six-month-long hiatus.
Before we go any further, I would like to include a preface about what you are going to read. You undoubtedly will read several other Websites looking for more detail or additional benchmark results. Do, though, remain on guard against biases that can taint your opinions. There are a lot of angles as to how information from the companies gets into your hands. We sign agreements so we can have an inside look before launch but some break those agreements. Such is life. The problem with that is the information is not always full or accurate: "Does it have this or that?" "AMD is done for!." "Nvidia will get crushed!" Speculation is fun to read but it needs to be taken with a smidgen of understanding and awareness that all of the information is not on the table. That leaves you having to take one person's opinions at face value... that isn't always a healthy thing to do.
The other side of the story is how companies try to taint the opinions of those writing the stories about their products. To give you both sides, ATI flew over 200 writers and editors to Tunis, Tunisia, for two days and nights of technical briefings and fun. While this, plus a pair of graphics cards, is enough to sway the opinions of some, there are those who remain unbiased. At the same time, a launch would not be a normal one without backlash from Nvidia. A wealth of information hits writers like a broadside of comments and rebuttals. It also never ceases to amaze me how fast a driver can be produced when the competition might have the upper hand in something. So the miracle driver made available to fix known issues and push performance.
That being said, we at Tom's Hardware refuse to cater to companies with their PR and marketing spin teams. We love looking at hardware and explaining our adventures with you. Our soul purpose is to give you as much information and as many resources to help you make up your own mind about a new product or technology.
So, I will warn you about the pages to follow. While I would encourage you to read through the entire article, some of it will get deep. We want to cater to both those interested in what is new and cool, while continuing our tradition of appeasing tech junkies who can't get enough of the details. Without further ado, we give you R600.
"It's about time," is my first reaction. Six months of dragging this out has lost a lot of face with your consumers and with guys like myself. While we can only hope that ATI would come up with an alternative to GeForce 8800 and now 8600, the reality is that some markets get lopsided. Nvidia was first to market and now has a strong head start. Even some ATI fanboys have changed their tune with such a long dry spell.
Personally, I like all of the advanced hardware inside of R600. I am very happy with the implementation of the AVIVO hardware with its audio controller, embedded HDCP key and new HDMI adapter. I have always been a fan of the memory ring. It is advanced. A threaded design with 512-bits in each direction is a memory solution that can deliver some serious bandwidth. The organization of some of the units could have been done a little better. In particular, the number or texture units could have been higher and more importantly, why not build a purely scalar design? Not that it is imperative, but why not? Other than those two items, it should have been faster, more powerful and here a long time ago (wait, I said that last one already **hint, hint **).
Based on the 80-nm process, one can conclude that this is the product we should have had the first time we were told R600 was coming. That being said, it does not put it past speculation that a faster card is coming soon at 65 nm. The only issue there is that Nvidia could have another card available with improved hardware before this next set is here.
Source: Sapphire Technologies - The HD2900XT Toxic is water cooled.
Source: Sapphire Technologies - The HD2900XT Toxic is water cooled.
For now, if you were waiting for R600, it is a good thing you did. There are some really nice advances incorporated into the HD 2900XT and the Vista performance of the 1GB GDDR4 cards have made it the choice of boutique system builders (I just wish we had them in house). At $400 for the version we have in the lab, it is a good price as it has more to offer than the GeForce 8800GTS. The sweet spot is still the 320 MB version of the 8800 GTS but that could change as other versions of the R600 family emerge. Until then, if you were sitting on the fence, you can either keep riding or finally spend you money on something. Versions like the Sapphire HD2900XT Toxic will come factory overclocked with a stand-alone water cooling solution.
Overall, HD2900XT is more forward looking than GeForce 8800 and it should be; it took an extra six months getting it to market. If you are leaning towards longevity of a card, R600 looks more attractive with a dedicated tessellator, programmable filters, high-clock speeds and crazy amounts of bandwidth. It is a hot and a little loud. It is hot enough that a warning label might soon accompany cards and systems. We can only hope that it will become more cool and quiet as more cards hit the market.
Originally posted by: Pugnate
"It's about time," is my first reaction. Six months of dragging this out has lost a lot of face with your consumers and with guys like myself. While we can only hope that ATI would come up with an alternative to GeForce 8800 and now 8600, the reality is that some markets get lopsided. Nvidia was first to market and now has a strong head start. Even some ATI fanboys have changed their tune with such a long dry spell.
Personally, I like all of the advanced hardware inside of R600. I am very happy with the implementation of the AVIVO hardware with its audio controller, embedded HDCP key and new HDMI adapter. I have always been a fan of the memory ring. It is advanced. A threaded design with 512-bits in each direction is a memory solution that can deliver some serious bandwidth. The organization of some of the units could have been done a little better. In particular, the number or texture units could have been higher and more importantly, why not build a purely scalar design? Not that it is imperative, but why not? Other than those two items, it should have been faster, more powerful and here a long time ago (wait, I said that last one already **hint, hint **).
Based on the 80-nm process, one can conclude that this is the product we should have had the first time we were told R600 was coming. That being said, it does not put it past speculation that a faster card is coming soon at 65 nm. The only issue there is that Nvidia could have another card available with improved hardware before this next set is here.
Source: Sapphire Technologies - The HD2900XT Toxic is water cooled.
Source: Sapphire Technologies - The HD2900XT Toxic is water cooled.
For now, if you were waiting for R600, it is a good thing you did. There are some really nice advances incorporated into the HD 2900XT and the Vista performance of the 1GB GDDR4 cards have made it the choice of boutique system builders (I just wish we had them in house). At $400 for the version we have in the lab, it is a good price as it has more to offer than the GeForce 8800GTS. The sweet spot is still the 320 MB version of the 8800 GTS but that could change as other versions of the R600 family emerge. Until then, if you were sitting on the fence, you can either keep riding or finally spend you money on something. Versions like the Sapphire HD2900XT Toxic will come factory overclocked with a stand-alone water cooling solution.
Overall, HD2900XT is more forward looking than GeForce 8800 and it should be; it took an extra six months getting it to market. If you are leaning towards longevity of a card, R600 looks more attractive with a dedicated tessellator, programmable filters, high-clock speeds and crazy amounts of bandwidth. It is a hot and a little loud. It is hot enough that a warning label might soon accompany cards and systems. We can only hope that it will become more cool and quiet as more cards hit the market.
I don't understand... The 2900XT lost just about every benchmark, so how could they say it was worth the wait? Weird.
Originally posted by: fern420
those crossfire 3dmark 05 scores look very nice, almost had me doing a double take.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/05/14/..._from_ati/page20.html#3dmark05__xp_pro
Originally posted by: manowar821
Where's my damn HD2900XTX?
Originally posted by: DeathBUA
Originally posted by: Pugnate
"It's about time," is my first reaction. Six months of dragging this out has lost a lot of face with your consumers and with guys like myself. While we can only hope that ATI would come up with an alternative to GeForce 8800 and now 8600, the reality is that some markets get lopsided. Nvidia was first to market and now has a strong head start. Even some ATI fanboys have changed their tune with such a long dry spell.
Personally, I like all of the advanced hardware inside of R600. I am very happy with the implementation of the AVIVO hardware with its audio controller, embedded HDCP key and new HDMI adapter. I have always been a fan of the memory ring. It is advanced. A threaded design with 512-bits in each direction is a memory solution that can deliver some serious bandwidth. The organization of some of the units could have been done a little better. In particular, the number or texture units could have been higher and more importantly, why not build a purely scalar design? Not that it is imperative, but why not? Other than those two items, it should have been faster, more powerful and here a long time ago (wait, I said that last one already **hint, hint **).
Based on the 80-nm process, one can conclude that this is the product we should have had the first time we were told R600 was coming. That being said, it does not put it past speculation that a faster card is coming soon at 65 nm. The only issue there is that Nvidia could have another card available with improved hardware before this next set is here.
Source: Sapphire Technologies - The HD2900XT Toxic is water cooled.
Source: Sapphire Technologies - The HD2900XT Toxic is water cooled.
For now, if you were waiting for R600, it is a good thing you did. There are some really nice advances incorporated into the HD 2900XT and the Vista performance of the 1GB GDDR4 cards have made it the choice of boutique system builders (I just wish we had them in house). At $400 for the version we have in the lab, it is a good price as it has more to offer than the GeForce 8800GTS. The sweet spot is still the 320 MB version of the 8800 GTS but that could change as other versions of the R600 family emerge. Until then, if you were sitting on the fence, you can either keep riding or finally spend you money on something. Versions like the Sapphire HD2900XT Toxic will come factory overclocked with a stand-alone water cooling solution.
Overall, HD2900XT is more forward looking than GeForce 8800 and it should be; it took an extra six months getting it to market. If you are leaning towards longevity of a card, R600 looks more attractive with a dedicated tessellator, programmable filters, high-clock speeds and crazy amounts of bandwidth. It is a hot and a little loud. It is hot enough that a warning label might soon accompany cards and systems. We can only hope that it will become more cool and quiet as more cards hit the market.
I don't understand... The 2900XT lost just about every benchmark, so how could they say it was worth the wait? Weird.
That was exactly my thought.....sure it's competitive at it's price point...but sorry to double post something but I posted part of this last night...
If I can get a 8800GTS 640 for less than a 2900 and get equal perf....then easy choice...and if the GTX drops to say consistently under 500 bucks...then I'd spend the extra at this point.
It's nice that the price and features is nice(despite certain things not being working feature sets yet such as the tesselator) But the fact that it runs hotter, noiser and whatnot then even a GTX....well thats sucky.
I suppose it depends on how much brand loyalty you have, because bottom line if all you want is BEST perf not looking at price then the GTX lays the smack down...
Originally posted by: gersson
Originally posted by: manowar821
Where's my damn HD2900XTX?
delayed till fall or canceled
Originally posted by: Pugnate
I agree Palindrome. But currently the 8800GTS 640 is just a better deal.
Originally posted by: Pugnate
Well I imagine if this comes down to $300 then a CF setup isn't all that implausible.
Originally posted by: DeathBUA
That was exactly my thought.....sure it's competitive at it's price point...but sorry to double post something but I posted part of this last night...
If I can get a 8800GTS 640 for less than a 2900 and get equal perf....then easy choice...and if the GTX drops to say consistently under 500 bucks...then I'd spend the extra at this point.
It's nice that the price and features is nice(despite certain things not being working feature sets yet such as the tesselator) But the fact that it runs hotter, noiser and whatnot then even a GTX....well thats sucky.
I suppose it depends on how much brand loyalty you have, because bottom line if all you want is BEST perf not looking at price then the GTX lays the smack down...