[TomsHW] PCIe 4.0 - 32GB/sec over x16, 300-500W slot power

nathanddrews

Graphics Cards, CPU Moderator
Aug 9, 2016
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Last edited:

4K_shmoorK

Senior member
Jul 1, 2015
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Not too savvy on power delivery, but power still has to come from somewhere, no? You can't just simply respec a slot from 75W to 300W powered from the ATX mobo connection. Its likely that additional power connections would be required, something more like moving PCI 6/8 pin connectors onboard rather than on the graphics adapter.

Then a typical '16 build and beyond would have something like 325W running through the board. Seems like a recipe for fried components to me.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Not too savvy on power delivery, but power still has to come from somewhere, no? You can't just simply respec a slot from 75W to 300W powered from the ATX mobo connection. Its likely that additional power connections would be required, something more like moving PCI 6/8 pin connectors onboard rather than on the graphics adapter.

Then a typical '16 build and beyond would have something like 325W running through the board. Seems like a recipe for fried components to me.

300W per slot via mobo delivery. That sounds like a very bad idea indeed.
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
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Yea, seems like any manufacturer that would not provide a psu with the proper six/eight pin connectors would definitely not supply a (presumably) expensive motherboard that would deliver 300 watts through the PCIe slot. I suppose for a DIY build, it could allow eliminating some cables, but seems like an expensive solution for a minimal gain.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Less cables, better air circulation, easier access to parts... i like it

Less cables? I think you will just get the 6-8 pin cables attached next to the card on the mobo. Just as the CPU power cable. Where else did you imagine the power coming from?

Seems to be the exact opposite of what you describe.

Overclocking is another part that will be fun. More things to fail due to the power draw. And this time its a mobo.
 

redzo

Senior member
Nov 21, 2007
547
5
81
300W per slot via mobo delivery. That sounds like a very bad idea indeed.
Bad indeed for both buyers and sellers of cheap office pcs.

This time is only 75w, not that much for a fake 500w paper rated psu: it can handle 75w. That poor it guy(myself included) / technician installing a 250w TDP GPU inside a fake 500W cheap psu... cuz everybody says it works. Hell, no additional pci-e connectors necessary. It sounds too good and cheap until the psu blows up.

If 300W slot power becomes a standard is bad both for the ordinary IT dude and for the customer. This implies both higher quality psus and motherboards. Long gone are the days when you could grab a cheap ass chinese psu(400w total output power rated in fantasy land) and dump it inside a cheap office pc. This time around it should warrant what, 300w instead of 75w slot power? It's madness.

My point is that current owners of fake rated psus didn't had to face "can't handle 75w slot pci-e power". Now they do if 300w slot power becomes a standard.
 

boozzer

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2012
1,549
18
81
Bad indeed for both buyers and sellers of cheap office pcs.

This time is only 75w, not that much for a fake 500w paper rated psu: it can handle 75w. That poor it guy(myself included) / technician installing a 250w TDP GPU inside a fake 500W cheap psu... cuz everybody says it works. Hell, no additional pci-e connectors necessary. It sounds too good and cheap until the psu blows up.

If 300W slot power becomes a standard is bad both for the ordinary IT dude and for the customer. This implies both higher quality psus and motherboards. Long gone are the days when you could grab a cheap ass chinese psu(400w total output power rated in fantasy land) and dump it inside a cheap office pc. This time around it should warrant what, 300w instead of 75w slot power? It's madness.

My point is that current owners of fake rated psus didn't had to face "can't handle 75w slot pci-e power". Now they do if 300w slot power becomes a standard.
quality psus can be had for cheap anyway. I have no idea how cheap "chinese psus" are. but quality 400w psus regularly go on sale for 30$ or less. hell, if you are using quality over chinese ones, I bet you can go with 300w versions.

If this spec change can decrease cables = 1000% win. so much negativity on new tech. like wth.
 

redzo

Senior member
Nov 21, 2007
547
5
81
quality psus can be had for cheap anyway. I have no idea how cheap "chinese psus" are. but quality 400w psus regularly go on sale for 30$ or less. hell, if you are using quality over chinese ones, I bet you can go with 300w versions.
You didn't get my point. I know about good quality cheap psus. You do also. Cheap chinesse crapp is cheap quality on small volumes but expensive in a lot of non-us markets.
I totally get this. Still, I was talking about a Walmart type thing. It's getting very hard for small oem's to compete on price with the big guys(HP, Dell, ...)

I could sell hundreds of cheap higher config pcs for cheap(compared with big oems). At least I know that my 400w cheap rated psus with no additional pci-e power connectors can handle a max 75w gpu on the motherboards. "Hell", I think this is an issue even for the/my big competitors: pretty much all lower rated psus, no matter their quality, will not be able to sustain pci-e slot 300w. And even more distracting for the uneducated customer. While most IT tech products come from the US, non-us US markets don't reflect the same US prices.

Could you please explain why this change is worth it besides those additional pci-e psu connectors? Is this a reason to turn the entire psu market upside down.
Unless this involves a cost reduction(it doesn't, those 300w are now passed to the motherboard), it is plain stupid. You've got your popular modular psu product for this "getting rid of cables" argument.
 

boozzer

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2012
1,549
18
81
the thing is, it will become the new standard. you will only have this worry with the old standard psus.

and what is wrong with stirring up the market? it is what new tech is suppose to do.
 

redzo

Senior member
Nov 21, 2007
547
5
81
the thing is, it will become the new standard. you will only have this worry with the old standard psus.

and what is wrong with stirring up the market? it is what new tech is suppose to do.
"old standard psus" means all psus sold as of today.

Once again I ask you,

Could you name at least one gain besides your argument that I don't believe it stands since you already got the "modular psu" product adopted by all the major psu manufacturers.
Power gets switched to the motherboard. This not cost free.

EDIT:
Just to make myself clear.

I do not stand against tech progress!

Both power and cost gets switched to the motherboard. I do not know who could gain something out of this. Maybe motherboard manufacturers or psu manufacturers, or both due to transferring cost to their side, but not oems or customers.

This is not an engineering master piece! It has nothing to do do with tech progress.
It sounds more like a political decision.
 
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Piroko

Senior member
Jan 10, 2013
905
79
91
300W through the board and connectors is not a problem if designed for. It only needs a slightly higher gauge on the cables and thicker metal layers on the board (which is already quite overspecced by at least Gigabyte, probably all manufacturers).

I mean come on, how do you guys think the PCB in a 2000W PSU works? Magic? No, just thicker layers and higher gauges on the wires.
 

exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
8
91
I think it will be great. This will help reduce cable clutter significantly and eliminate the need for extra wires to the GPU. Obviously, it will be somewhat of a change with PSUs, cabling to the MB power and the internal power management on the board, but is good for the industry.

Honestly, no other component in computers today (for mainstream users) requires extra power connectors. This brings simplicity back and also should help ensure better compatibility with GPUs and PSUs.

One interesting aspect is how this will apply for mGPU setups. Will motherboards that support multiple GPUs need to provide more than 500w of power? Or will the cards still allow for external connections (as optional?)
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,873
1,527
136
Great more power out of the slots and there is no way to deliver such power to the mb of current 3.0 rev... time for a ATX rev upgrade and drop the backward compatibility.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,841
5,456
136
Could be a sign that PCIe slots are going away except for the super high end and workstations/servers.
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
5,058
410
126
300W slot makes me worried about backwards compatibility (with older slots) for newer cards.
 
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Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,873
1,527
136
They
300W slot makes me worried about backwards compatibility (with older slots) for newer cards.
They are not going to use it, PCI-E 2.0 and 3.0 where able to deliver more than 75W, but since pci-e devices must be backwards compatible, gpus must be 75W max, and OEMs are not enforced to provide more than 75W to the slots. There is just no way to get such power out of the ATX plug.
 
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