TOTAL newbie - Recommend me a LINUX distribution!

AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
5,962
455
126
Hi there,

I have an old P-166 machine with 32 MB RAM (I will be sending it to Eastern Europe in the summer, as part of an ongoing donation project of mine), with an ATI Mach64 video card, Ethernet, a CD-Rom and the ubiquitous floppy. It's old, but the people who will receive it can't afford it even at these specs, if they were to buy it.

I have NEVER used Linux in my life, and I'm thinking it's time to start doing so.

But I want this experience to be gradual and pleasant - no shock treatment.

So, it will have to be a Linux flavour with a reasonably decent GUI, which does not require programming/networking skills to operate. I might leave this operating system loaded for the folks who will eventually use the computer, so you can imagine that it has to be very user-friendly and have a good interface.

Is there such a thing available?
 

Farfrael

Senior member
Mar 6, 2002
312
0
0
not with tha hardware spec you gave
Linux is nice but it is NOT a magical wand, there is no way you'll run any OS with a nice GUI on such a machine
 

AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
5,962
455
126
oh, come on... "any OS with a nice GUI"... Windows98 works on this machine, so why shouldn't Linux? it doesn't HAVE to be a new version, as long as it's stable.
 

SaturnX

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2000
3,415
0
76
You have to realize that Linux window managers are no where near as efficient as Windows is.. yet.. in my experience with Linux, the Window's GUI runs much faster than any Linux GUI available. Trying to load it up on a P-166 with 32MB won't get you very far. Sure using the console would work, but I'm positive loading a GUI will strain the system.

--Mark
 

SaturnX

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2000
3,415
0
76
Well how about Microsoft Bob.. it's not really Windows... haha, ok ok I"m kidding, but here, if you're really interested in getting Linux going on that box, I strongly recommend that you try Knoppix first to see the performance. Knoppix is a Live Linux distro, meaning it runs completely off a bootable CD, thus never actually installing anything, so there's no wasted time. It automatically loads up into KDE (One of the available GUIs for Linux - KDE and GNOME are the most popular window managers for Linux)

Anyways, you should give it a go,

Knoppix.net


Just goto one of the mirror's and grab the file: KNOPPIX_V3.3-2004-02-09-EN.iso

then just burn the ISO, and boot up and you'll be in Linux.

--Mark
 

Megatomic

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
20,127
6
81
Knoppix 3.3 is really nice, keep your eyes open for Knoppix 3.4. It should be available for download soon.

As far as older Linux builds that are stable, I have seen Red Hat 7.2 with whatever version of KDE that came with it in use on older PII systems with 128MB of RAM and it was fast enough. Can you upgrade the memory a little on that P166? That would help you out a lot IMO.
 

KF

Golden Member
Dec 3, 1999
1,371
0
0
Mandrake and Red Hat are the distributions of linux that are most often mentioned as being convenient (and so are the most popular.) The Knoppix distro on a CD -complete boot and install in about 2 minutes- is really neat, but it take some investigation to figure out how to put a permanent installation on a HD. All three are easy to set up. Just put the boot/install CD in and answer very few or no mysterious question. All three attempt to present a Windows-like face to the user.

I see Mandrake 10 (which is very new) requires 64 M, but the Mandrake 9.1 docs say it only requires 32 M, and you can probably still find it pretty easy.$9 at almostfreelinux

With later and later distros the setup programs, which Mandrake and Red Hat have their custom versions of, have become simpler and more throrough. Chances are that everything will be set up and working once the installer has finished. However, if it isn't, prepare yourself for PITA "learning experience." You will see what hardcore unix freaks love so much. Linux is not for ordinary people, if they have to install, change, or setup anything on their own. If you think XP can be pain, you have no idea.

Let me give you an idea, and this is not so bad, because in this case I was successful, unlike some others. The Mandrake 9.1 distro automatically sets up a couple of CD burner programs. I decided to burn a music CD. It was easy to get all the mp3 files arranged for the burn. The look and feel was klunky compared to XP, but really, so what? But when it came time to burn, nothing happened. I got some gobbledegook error message. (More informative than typical XP error messages though.) Since I needed the "learning experience," I decided to track it down on my own, if possible. After a few hours per day for a few days in futile trial and error, I eventually figured out the name of a setup file that possibly was not being set correctly. I figured out the format of the entries in the setup file (which was straighforward) and copied one entry, replacing the burner name with what the error message called my burner. (Allmost all of the entries were the same except for the burner name.) So then the burner program burned the CD. Unfortunately the CD is a pain in the ear, because the burner program lacks an auto-level feature that Nero has, and -as is common- the mp3's vary tremendously in volume. One track will be hard to hear, while the following track will blast out an eardrum.

Since you are a newbie, I will point out that the fact that linux is an OS does not mean it will run Windows programs. Linux runs linux (unix) programs. There is an adapter module, WINE, that can run some Windows programs sometimes, which is incomplete and buggy. WINE is a good example of how linux afficianados make unqualified, inflated claims for their beloved, or neglect to point out important things. Although I haven't tried out WINE in years, so it should be better, I think I did once get Notepad to run, after hours of guesswork, and nothing else. But they still made the same claims for WINE back then that they make for it now, which were misleading back then.

What are most convenient when you install software, and which both Mandrake and Red Hat have built in support for, are .rpm files. These files automatically install completely if you just click on them.

Linux is designed to be on its own file system, which is alien to Windows file systems. You normally need to repartition (or wipe) your HD to have something to install linux on.

IMO, even the old windowing systems, before Gnome and KDE, were OK from the point of view of ease-of-use and simplicity. The exact reason people are so enthused over the new ones, I do not know. They do look nice. Lots of distros for cheap They give links to the originator, which you can check out for the requirements.


Filemirrors.com Search on Mandrake for possible old versions. Get Getright for a resuming file downloader. I've gotten iso CDs this way by downloading at night for a couple of weeks at 28800. Most distros only require the first CD for most users.
 

Kwatt

Golden Member
Jan 3, 2000
1,602
12
81
I tried Vector Linux For a day or so.

I was using a p233MMX with 64MB ram and a 1 Gig HD it ran OK.
I know nothing about linux I was playing around. So just something to look at.
It used the ICE ?interface? I liked it OK. It seemed to be responsive and quick.



Kwatt



 

NuclearFusi0n

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2001
7,028
0
0
Originally posted by: SaturnX
You have to realize that Linux window managers are no where near as efficient as Windows is.. yet.. in my experience with Linux, the Window's GUI runs much faster than any Linux GUI available. Trying to load it up on a P-166 with 32MB won't get you very far. Sure using the console would work, but I'm positive loading a GUI will strain the system.

--Mark
zuh?
a lightweight *box should work at least as well as windows on a P166
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Originally posted by: SaturnX
You have to realize that Linux window managers are no where near as efficient as Windows is.. yet.. in my experience with Linux, the Window's GUI runs much faster than any Linux GUI available. Trying to load it up on a P-166 with 32MB won't get you very far. Sure using the console would work, but I'm positive loading a GUI will strain the system.

--Mark

Which WMs have you used?
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,160
1,634
126
Hmmm ... you will want to avoid Mandrake and KDE.

Perhaps Slackware with a small Window Manager of YOUR choice would be good. Blackbox, Icewm, fvwm, fluxbox, windowmaker(maybe?) take your pick.
Of the ones I mentioned, I've played around with Blackbox and Icewm ... I like them both, but I am lazy and have a faster CPU than I need with more RAM then I need on my linux box ... so I currently waste resources with KDE most of the time. (though I'm in the process of setting up a freebsd box and I'll probably go with either all CLI, or a lighter WM since it's a much slowwer box. Time for me to get used to IP Masquerading with Freebsd ...)

 

Barnaby W. Füi

Elite Member
Aug 14, 2001
12,343
0
0
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Originally posted by: SaturnX
You have to realize that Linux window managers are no where near as efficient as Windows is.. yet.. in my experience with Linux, the Window's GUI runs much faster than any Linux GUI available. Trying to load it up on a P-166 with 32MB won't get you very far. Sure using the console would work, but I'm positive loading a GUI will strain the system.

--Mark

Which WMs have you used?

Not many, it would seem.
 

Megatomic

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
20,127
6
81
Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
Hmmm ... you will want to avoid Mandrake and KDE.

Perhaps Slackware with a small Window Manager of YOUR choice would be good. Blackbox, Icewm, fvwm, fluxbox, windowmaker(maybe?) take your pick.
Of the ones I mentioned, I've played around with Blackbox and Icewm ... I like them both, but I am lazy and have a faster CPU than I need with more RAM then I need on my linux box ... so I currently waste resources with KDE most of the time. (though I'm in the process of setting up a freebsd box and I'll probably go with either all CLI, or a lighter WM since it's a much slowwer box. Time for me to get used to IP Masquerading with Freebsd ...)
Did you miss the part where the OP said they were a "TOTAL newbie"? It'll be enough to get used to Mdk/KDE as it is.

 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,160
1,634
126
Originally posted by: Megatomic
Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
Hmmm ... you will want to avoid Mandrake and KDE.

Perhaps Slackware with a small Window Manager of YOUR choice would be good. Blackbox, Icewm, fvwm, fluxbox, windowmaker(maybe?) take your pick.
Of the ones I mentioned, I've played around with Blackbox and Icewm ... I like them both, but I am lazy and have a faster CPU than I need with more RAM then I need on my linux box ... so I currently waste resources with KDE most of the time. (though I'm in the process of setting up a freebsd box and I'll probably go with either all CLI, or a lighter WM since it's a much slowwer box. Time for me to get used to IP Masquerading with Freebsd ...)
Did you miss the part where the OP said they were a "TOTAL newbie"? It'll be enough to get used to Mdk/KDE as it is.



No, I didn't miss it .... but since its a P166 with 32mb of ram, I figured that would be the best balance in simplicity / performance. It's not like I suggested some crazy "do it yourself" distro with only a CLI.

It's certainly not the easiest out there, but a dedicated newbie with a good brain and lots of time to kill could pull it off. Especially with all the linux howto's, man pages, and support forums available. It certainly wouldn't be easy, but sometimes its better to learn the hard way.
 

unixfool

Junior Member
Mar 27, 2004
23
0
0
Originally posted by: Farfrael
not with tha hardware spec you gave

Linux is nice but it is NOT a magical wand, there is no way you'll run any OS with a nice GUI on such a machine

WTF?

Linux CAN run on those specs....very easily.

You DO have to consider some light programs, desktop environments, and window managers, but it's entirely possible for Linux to run on the system that was mentioned.

IMO, you may want to look at Mandrake, Suse, and Fedora, although, don't select KDE and Gnome for use (and maybe not Windowmaker either). Good, light window managers are IceWM, XFCE4, Fluxbox, Blackbox, Hackedbox, Openbox, Kahakai...there are quite a few that I missed too.

Or, if you want to REALLY be elite, don't use an X server. Try to do everything via the commandline. You'll probably learn much more that way.

I'd suggest Debian, Slackware, Libranet, and maybe Fedora. I've no real feelings toward Suse and Mandrake. Oh...if anyone mentions Gentoo, I swear, I'm gonna go postal!
 

Bleep

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,972
0
0
Knoppix has fairly standard hardware requirements. It needs an Intel-compatible CPU (i486 or later) and 20MB of RAM for text mode, with at least 96MB for graphics mode with KDE. 128MB of RAM is recommended when using applications as resource-hungry as OpenOffice.org. As you'd expect, it requires a bootable CD-ROM drive, or a boot floppy and standard drive CD-ROM (IDE/ATAPI or SCSI). Finally, it also requires a standard SVGA-compatible graphics card and a serial, PS/2 standard, or IMPS/2-compatible USB mouse
as far as I am comcerned their are only 2 distros that will ever make it to market with any sucess and that is Mandrake and Fedora (the free ones that is) because it is mostly to difficult for a beginning computer person to even get it on the machine. How many have I tried? Most of them and basically they are all the same.


Bleep
 

unixfool

Junior Member
Mar 27, 2004
23
0
0
I've been messing with the 'Nixes since 1997. Using a distro that has "market share" won't get you a job, for one. A person attempting to get a job using Linux or Unix won't be able to catch a good break by just using Mandrake and/or Fedora. In fact, using those distros is like using training wheels on your bike. Market share has nothing to do with actually LEARNING to use Linux or Unix. It may be hard for a newb to learn but in the end, he's gonna have to use the commandline anyways to be truly productive. Secondly, there's no need to handhold a person, especially if they want to be educated. When learning, there's no easy or hard way...in fact, there's only one way...you can't learn by looking for the easy way out.

Never could understand why people focus on a GUI-ized distro. It's fine if all you ever want to do is use GUI (Windows users) but why even use Linux if all you want to do is use fancy interfaces? There are tons of OSs that are already GUI-dependent.

On the home desktop, maybe, but in the REAL world, you're eventually gonna have to go beyond the GUI, market share or not.
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
0
0
Command line is vital to a deep understanding of Unix and linux. Aviod depending on GUI tools, using them is one thing and they can be convienent to have around, but relying on them is quite a bit different.

As far as market share goes, Linux is Linux is Linux is Linux. The distros are all the same things, just packaged differently.

A newbie would be well served using Fedora because it has the largest user base so the likelyhood of that person finding accurate command by command instuctions is much higher then anything else.

Good package managers is something that is wonderfull to have. Apt is great and is used in Fedora/Redhat, and it originated from Debian. Fedora also uses Yum installed by default, this makes it easy to apply updates and patches.

But it also depends heavily on the newbie, there are plenty of people around that would have a hard time with Fedora, but would have a great time with Debian or Slackware. It just depends on their mentality and attitude, like how profitent do you want to be? How quikly do you want to learn? How much BS can you put with in a OS?

The way I figure it any distro that you can think of 90% of the skills you pick up will be directly applicable to every other distro out their. 70-80% will be directly applicable to any Unix version out there (except maybe the odd balls like HP-UX).
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Originally posted by: drag
A newbie would be well served using Fedora because it has the largest user base so the likelyhood of that person finding accurate command by command instuctions is much higher then anything else.

How much does that really help someone? You can look at statistics, and research, and I'd bet that someone that has to work through a problem on their own learns more than a person that is given the answer.

Yeah, it's nice to find a how-to once in a while, but I personally like experimenting and figuring things out on my own. Maybe I'm the exception though

The way I figure it any distro that you can think of 90% of the skills you pick up will be directly applicable to every other distro out their. 70-80% will be directly applicable to any Unix version out there (except maybe the odd balls like HP-UX).

 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
0
0
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Originally posted by: drag
A newbie would be well served using Fedora because it has the largest user base so the likelyhood of that person finding accurate command by command instuctions is much higher then anything else.

How much does that really help someone? You can look at statistics, and research, and I'd bet that someone that has to work through a problem on their own learns more than a person that is given the answer.

Yeah, it's nice to find a how-to once in a while, but I personally like experimenting and figuring things out on my own. Maybe I'm the exception though

Your right of course, but when your having trouble with the basics, like getting your nic card working, it's realy going to make it difficult to learn anything. But like I said before, some people benifit more often and quicker from using Slackware vs Fedora or Mandrake.
The way I figure it any distro that you can think of 90% of the skills you pick up will be directly applicable to every other distro out their. 70-80% will be directly applicable to any Unix version out there (except maybe the odd balls like HP-UX).


ME being stupid.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Originally posted by: drag
Your right of course, but when your having trouble with the basics, like getting your nic card working, it's realy going to make it difficult to learn anything. But like I said before, some people benifit more often and quicker from using Slackware vs Fedora or Mandrake.

I like the way you said that. "Your right of course. . ." Getting a NIC working should be a non-issue, in my opinion. Building the NIC drivers into the kernel instead of as modules or not at all (slackware :| :heart will solve this. Basic documents on how to load a module could also save it, if appropriate measures are taken (like man afterboot on OpenBSD ).

I really wish distros would pay attention to NICs more anyways. Debian didn't have my driver installed (stupid modules), Slackware I don't think had either (modprobes failed). And I was using a popular NIC, Intel something or other. Didn't even work with my tulip cards, but put in a crappy RealTek card and you're good to go! :disgust:

But really, if you didn't bother to find out how to load a module when you researched linux, how ready are you going to be for "the rest of it?"

Oh well. There isn't a perfect solution for everything, hence the "need" for 13,729,387,492,039,485.02 Linux distributions.


ME being stupid.

That was more of a comment on HPUX and less of a comment on your comment.
 
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