Toyota dominating NASCAR.. Who would have thought..

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JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,472
867
126
Wait what??? How are you saying it's "not Nascar" when a Nascar event is held there? I know it's not your typical go left forever oval, but Nascar lists the track on their site, and Wiki even says as well. I'll admit I don't know much about Nascar.

Watkins Glen is a race track. Not just an event on the nascar calendar. That's all I'm saying.

NASCAR races at Fontana Motor Speedway too but the venue exists outside of that race and holds other racing events including Indycar.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,472
867
126
Surprised? I'm not surprised. If you ever have something great and want it even better, give that task to the Japanese who will find a way to do it better than you. This is pretty much a standard constant in anything automotive, and other industries. I mean, it just is what it is.

Then once other companies get back on somewhat level footing they get praised for not sucking as they once did. It's funny.

I don't watch NASCAR but I sure would if Honda jumped in just so I could watch Toyota and Honda go at it. I much prefer dirt tracks.

Honda sucks shit in F1 right now.
 

Railgun

Golden Member
Mar 27, 2010
1,289
2
81
Honda sucks shit in F1 right now.

O RLY. Not as bad as others me thinks. But yeah...still sucky. Arguably, anyone that isn't in first, one could say they suck shit.

8 McLaren 12
9 Renault 6
10 Sauber 0
11 Manor 0

Toyota dominates. McLaren makes the ECU and fuel injection. IIRC some blocks are manufactured out of England as well. I'm sure there are a lot of non-US parts for a typically US race. At this point, who cares who is winning races.
 
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JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,472
867
126
O RLY. Not as bad as others me thinks. But yeah...still sucky. Arguably, anyone that isn't in first, one could say they suck shit.

8 McLaren 12
9 Renault 6
10 Sauber 0
11 Manor 0

Toyota dominates. McLaren makes the ECU and fuel injection. IIRC some blocks are manufactured out of England as well. I'm sure there are a lot of non-US parts for a typically US race. At this point, who cares who is winning races.

If you're going to quote Constructors Championship standings you might as well quote the whole thing. It kind of paints a different picture than what you posted.

Mercedes 157
Ferrari 109
Red Bull 94
Williams 65
Toro Rosso 26
Haas 22
Force India 14
McLaren 12
Renault 6
Sauber 0
Manor 0

McLaren are back markers who can barely finish a race. They have two world championship drivers and they have scored only 12 points so far this season and it is due mostly to the Honda engine's unreliability and lack of competitiveness.

I'm sure Ferrari care who is winning races.
 
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Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,723
325
126
I'm offended that you used the word "sport" so many times when referring to watching Dale, Ricky and Bobby drive in loops for half a day

If you believe that you don't have a clue how physically punishing driving a race car is. I think nascar is boring a hell, but the top level drivers still deserve respect for what they do.
 

SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,461
82
86
If you believe that you don't have a clue how physically punishing driving a race car is. I think nascar is boring a hell, but the top level drivers still deserve respect for what they do.

Shit, just driving straight for a few hours on the interstate is bad enough, let alone no A/C, noisy as hell, bumper-to-bumper traffic at +180MPH amongst a bunch of other ill tempered drivers.
 

exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
8
91
Couple of perspectives....

First, I never attended a NASCAR race until last year's BoA 500 race in Charlotte. It was pretty enjoyable, but our group left after about 2/3 of the race (albeit the seats we got were free...). The atmosphere was pretty cool, and yes we were able to bring our own cooler, which is pretty nice too, but it did get a bit boring after a while. I certainly would not pay $50+/seat to go, but it was pretty fun.

Second, living in Charlotte for a couple years, you do hear a lot about NASCAR. The consensus I heard was hardcore fans are pretty tired with 'modern' NASCAR. Restricter plates, almost no difference between the cars and the focus of marketing to 'seek out other types of fans' definitely rubs them the wrong way. Long-time fans are deserting the sport and not many newer ones are attending. Thats not a recipe for success. Sort of like if MLB baseball tried to market the sport to non-baseball fans and eschewed some of the things that make baseball likeable to their longtime fans. You certainly have to change, but you have to be inclusive, rather than disruptive.

Anyways, the feel in some of the big NASCAR cities is that the sport is imploding somewhat, but maybe thats an opportunity to rebuild back to what the fans like. It is not my cup of tea personally, but it does have a decent history. Will be interesting to see where it goes...
 

Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,149
57
91
When did Ford ask for government assistance? They sold off a ton of assets to avoid getting a government bailout and it paid off for them.

And they took a government loan as well. Not to mention going to Congress with GM and also asking them to bail GM out, because if GM failed, the vendors would fail, and then Ford would have failed because they get their parts from the same vendors.
 

Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,149
57
91
Toyota engines really ARE American engines. They were designed by Toyota Racing Development of America, which pretty much was comprised of American Nascar racers/engineers.

Since they didn't make an OHV V-8, they were allowed to design and engine from scratch. So they took the GM and Ford engines and tried to use the best of all of them in their new engine.

Personally, I think it's BS for all the manufacturers that use engines that have never been available in a production car.

They should go back to requiring factory blocks and sheet metal. Make them actual "stock cars" again. There's a reason that Nascar's popularity and TV ratings have been steadily dropping for years.

People don't want to see everyone race the exact same body. They want to see the manufacturers produce special bodies like the Monte Carlo SS or the Superbird so they'll be eligible. They want to see them use engines that look something like what you can see in a car in a showroom. At least be derived from one.
They want to argue when Nascar lets Ford alter their Thunderbird sheet metal because it wasn't competitive.

Not what they have today.
 

Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,723
325
126
Toyota engines really ARE American engines. They were designed by Toyota Racing Development of America, which pretty much was comprised of American Nascar racers/engineers.

Since they didn't make an OHV V-8, they were allowed to design and engine from scratch. So they took the GM and Ford engines and tried to use the best of all of them in their new engine.

Personally, I think it's BS for all the manufacturers that use engines that have never been available in a production car.

They should go back to requiring factory blocks and sheet metal. Make them actual "stock cars" again. There's a reason that Nascar's popularity and TV ratings have been steadily dropping for years.

People don't want to see everyone race the exact same body. They want to see the manufacturers produce special bodies like the Monte Carlo SS or the Superbird so they'll be eligible. They want to see them use engines that look something like what you can see in a car in a showroom. At least be derived from one.
They want to argue when Nascar lets Ford alter their Thunderbird sheet metal because it wasn't competitive.

Not what they have today.

It would be a lot more interesting if there had to be homogulation models for sure. Its part of why I like to watch touring cars a lot more. Then again its still a lot of turning left.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,389
1,778
126
Toyota has an unfair advantage because most of their cars are made of thin, cheap metal anyways.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,573
5,096
136
When did Ford ask for government assistance? They sold off a ton of assets to avoid getting a government bailout and it paid off for them.

The company’s (Ford's) president and CEO testified that his company would suffer if Congress did not pass legislation to provide financial support to the ailing auto industry. He urged Congress to pass the bill (the Automotive Industry Financing Program--part of the TARP legislation).

Mulally, Dec. 5, 2008: In particular, the collapse of one or both of our domestic competitors would threaten Ford because we have 80 percent overlap in supplier networks and nearly 25 percent of Ford’s top dealers also own GM and Chrysler franchises.


He also asked Congress to authorize a credit line of up to $9 billion for Ford in case the economy got worse and the company needed it.

Mulally, Dec. 5, 2008: In addition to our plan, we are also here today to request support for the industry. In the near-term, Ford does not require access to a government bridge loan. However, we request a credit line of $9 billion as a critical backstop or safeguard against worsening conditions as we drive transformational change in our company.

In a Jan. 30, 2009, report on the bailout program, the Congressional Research Service noted that Ford “is counting on $5 billion from the DOE loan program to support a $14 billion plan to reorient its lineup toward more fuel-efficient vehicles.” On June 23, 2009, the Department of Energy announced it would provide $5.9 billion to Ford “to transform factories across Illinois, Kentucky, Michigan, Missouri, and Ohio to produce 13 more fuel efficient models.”

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/09/ford-motor-co-does-u-turn-on-bailouts/


So, technically Ford didn't partake directly from TARP, but Mulally very much encouraged the gov't to bail out GM and Chrysler. And Ford did get a $9B line of credit from the gov't during this period of time.....just in case.
 

ControlD

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2005
5,440
44
91
http://www.factcheck.org/2011/09/ford-motor-co-does-u-turn-on-bailouts/


So, technically Ford didn't partake directly from TARP, but Mulally very much encouraged the gov't to bail out GM and Chrysler. And Ford did get a $9B line of credit from the gov't during this period of time.....just in case.

As they should have. It made good business sense for Ford to do so. For selfish reasons I'm glad it all went down the way it did, but I'm probably not familiar enough with the economics involved to know if the bailout was the best thing for the country or not.
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,740
452
126
Toyota has an unfair advantage because most of their cars are made of thin, cheap metal anyways.

Are you talking NASCAR or the public vehicles? I have no idea about NASCAR, but if you're talking about cars in the general public you're very wrong. As a supplier for the exposed steel (painted body panels) of most of the major auto companies I can't go into specifics, but I can tell you my preference in a general sense. Based on what I've seen by visiting and providing support to many automotive customers, and seeing each customer's orders and their quality demands from us, I will most likely stay with Toyota and Lexus for quite some time. Based on what I've seen, the big 3 are only getting the quality of steel they're getting as a side benefit of often using the same suppliers that have to meet the Toyota standard. Anybody who thinks it's the other way around is an ignorant troll.
 
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