Toyota fixes arent working.

[FelixDeCat]

Using electronics instead of physical manipulators is a very bad idea:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Govt-...html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Some Toyota owners say they're still having trouble with unintended acceleration after their recalled cars were repaired, and the Transportation Department said Wednesday it is looking into their complaints.

Stewart Stogel, 49, of Mount Vernon, N.Y., said his 2009 Camry accelerated to about 15 mph on a street near his home on Saturday, five days after a dealership trimmed the gas pedal and installed new brake override software as part of the floor mat recall. The car didn't stop for several seconds even though he pressed on the brakes. Stogel said he barely avoided going down an embankment and hitting a wall.

"At first the brakes didn't engage at all," said Stogel, a freelance journalist. "Just as I approached Terrace Avenue, the wheels were able to get some traction, and all of the sudden the engine did disengage."

Carolyn Kimbrell, 59, a retired office assistant in Whitesville, Ky., said her 2006 Toyota Avalon accelerated last weekend as she pulled up to her mailbox near her home -- about a week after the car had been fixed. Kimbrell had just returned from a shopping trip to the mall with her 9-year-old granddaughter.

Kimbrell's car dealer on Feb. 20 inserted a small piece of metal into the gas pedal mechanism to eliminate friction that was causing the pedal problems. The dealer is scheduled to provide a separate fix to prevent the accelerator pedal from becoming trapped in the floor mat. But now Kimbrell said she wonders if the company's fix will solve the problem.

"It just scares you," Kimbrell said. "If I had been trying to stop at a busy intersection, that would have been bad."

Way to drive a perfectly good thread off-topic.
AT Mod
gillbot

I'll be reviewing this with ZV later and handing out vacations as seen fit.

 

[geno]

Using electronics instead of physical manipulators is a very bad idea:

Just because one company can't get it right doesn't mean it should ruin the entire concept.

 

[Bignate603]

Just because one company can't get it right doesn't mean it should ruin the entire concept.

My thoughts exactly. There are plenty of other car companies that are implementing electronic pedals without any problem at all.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Just because one company can't get it right doesn't mean it should ruin the entire concept.

Why do you support the idea? I think why upset the apple cart, when proven technology works? There is nothing to gain but some future automaker pulling the same stunt. If 10 years from now its the industry standard and it NEVER happens again (thus I wont be stuck with a car with NO resale value), Ill take it back. But Im rather skeptical of them reinventing the wheel for no apparent reason.

 

[ultimatebob]

Just because one company can't get it right doesn't mean it should ruin the entire concept.

Audi can't seem to get it right, either. The "gas pedal position sensor" failed on my 2003 Audi A4, causing the same uncontrolled acceleration issue that all of the Toyota people have been experiencing. To add insult to injury, the warranty had just expired 1,000 miles ago so I got stuck with $150 repair bill to fix it.

Oh... and just like Toyota, Audi's customer relations department tried to blame it on the damn floor mats when I called to complain :|

 

[FelixDeCat]

Audi can't seem to get it right, either. The "gas pedal position sensor" failed on my 2003 Audi A4, causing the same uncontrolled acceleration issue that all of the Toyota people have been experiencing. To add insult to injury, the warranty had just expired 1,000 miles ago so I got stuck with $150 repair bill to fix it.

Oh... and just like Toyota, Audi's customer relations department tried to blame it on the damn floor mats when I called to complain :|

Using microchips to replace something that your foot and one wire attached to the throttle has done reliably for over 100 years is just stupid.

We need to bring these scoundrels to justice.

 

[Engineer]

Using microchips to replace something that your foot and one wire attached to the throttle has done reliably for over 100 years is just stupid.

We need to bring these scoundrels to justice.

I had a friend with a 1980's Ford Escort EXP that had the throttle cable get stuck through the cruise control mechanism. Was going nearly 90 mph when he popped the clutch, turned off the engine and coasted into a weigh station. Just saying!

 

[Bignate603]

Why do you support the idea? I think why upset the apple cart, when proven technology works? There is nothing to gain but some future automaker pulling the same stunt. If 10 years from now its the industry standard and it NEVER happens again (thus I wont be stuck with a car with NO resale value), Ill take it back. But Im rather skeptical of them reinventing the wheel for no apparent reason.

Yes, because mechanical linkages have never failed

 

[Gothgar]

wow.... that sucks

 

[Itchrelief]

Why do you support the idea? I think why upset the apple cart, when proven technology works? There is nothing to gain but some future automaker pulling the same stunt. If 10 years from now its the industry standard and it NEVER happens again (thus I wont be stuck with a car with NO resale value), Ill take it back. But Im rather skeptical of them reinventing the wheel for no apparent reason.

The same argument has been posted for every major technological invention since, oh, maybe the wheel. Or maybe the hand-axe.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Yes, because mechanical linkages have never failed

And using a stupid microchip is far more reliable and fool proof?

 

[FelixDeCat]

I had a friend with a 1980's Ford Escort EXP that had the throttle cable get stuck through the cruise control mechanism. Was going nearly 90 mph when he popped the clutch, turned off the engine and coasted into a weigh station. Just saying!

The early Escort was one of Ford's major lemons. We owned an '82 Wagon. It was good looking and fun. But after 65,000 miles the engine locked up and it was game over. :'(

 

[mjrpes3]

If they treated the core of the electronic braking system the same way NASA treats the electronics and programming of the space shuttle, this wouldn't have happened. But this is a private business where as long as failure is below the threshold they set for litigation payout when failures do happen, you aren't going to get a system that lives up to the super rigorous standards we should expect from something as critical as reliably stopping the fucking vehicle.

 

[Eli]

I too dislike the idea of drive by wire, but not because of these problems necessarily... it just feels unnecessary in general.

I would be interested to know what the real advantages are.

 

[bobsmith1492]

Why do you support the idea? I think why upset the apple cart, when proven technology works? There is nothing to gain but some future automaker pulling the same stunt. If 10 years from now its the industry standard and it NEVER happens again (thus I wont be stuck with a car with NO resale value), Ill take it back. But Im rather skeptical of them reinventing the wheel for no apparent reason.

Fly-by-wire greatly improved airplanes' reliability, lowered their weight, and made them more easily controllable. Cars are smaller so it may not be as big of a difference, though.

 

[FelixDeCat]

I too dislike the idea of drive by wire, but not because of these problems necessarily... it just feels unnecessary in general.

I would be interested to know what the real advantages are.

And dont even get me started on push button starters. Now you cant even disengage the engine in an emergency if the computer wont let you.

 

[Eli]

And dont even get me started on push button starters. Now you cant even disengage the engine in an emergency if the computer wont let you.

Well, in all fairness.. you just have to hold the button for a few seconds. But yeah, I agree with the sentiment.

I'd probably replace the button with a keyswitch.

 

[waggy]

And dont even get me started on push button starters. Now you cant even disengage the engine in an emergency if the computer wont let you.

yes you can. but you gotta hold it for like 3 seconds. wich in a emergency i don't see many doing.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

yes you can. but you gotta hold it for like 3 seconds. wich in a emergency i don't see many doing.

Seems like an eternity especially when you'd like your hands free to do other things.

Additionally, isn't the typical engine brake override thing a delay anyway? The engine won't cut off till you press the brake for 2-3 seconds. Otherwise you could accidentally mispress and then imagine your car stopping in the middle of the highway... That'd be retarded. I don't see why this person is complaining. As for unintended acceleration... it's so rare and yet you're telling me someone's experiencing it already? AGAIN?

 

[0roo0roo]

Using microchips to replace something that your foot and one wire attached to the throttle has done reliably for over 100 years is just stupid.

We need to bring these scoundrels to justice.

isn't fly by wire on planes though?
who else uses this?
whats the redundancy? if any

 

[Cdubneeddeal]

Can we beat this Toyota topic into the ground any further?

 

[GagHalfrunt]

A lot of these reports are going to be psychosomatic or just plain scams. Every Toyota person that stabs at the brake, misses and hits the gas instead is going to blame a faulty repair and thousands of others are going to keep complaining hoping to get a new car out of it.

 

[HarryLui]

Educate all drivers what to do when the engine accelerate by itself... regardless to brand, type of transmission.

Pop it in neutral and use the steering and brake to get the car into a safe stop.

 

[darkswordsman17]

And using a stupid microchip is far more reliable and fool proof?

Pull your head out of your ass. No one said it was, they're pointing out that its really not any less reliable either. It does give their other computers better control of the drivetrain, so there is a reason why they would want it on their cars.

Hell, why bother with vehicles that have any chips in them at all? Buy a bicycle, this way you can have all the mechanical control you want.

 

[dman]

Educate all drivers what to do when the engine accelerate by itself... regardless to brand, type of transmission.

Pop it in neutral and use the steering and brake to get the car into a safe stop.

The problem is, we're assuming the driver can and should be able to perform said safety overrides.