Toyota, Honda overstating Horsepower ratings.

Analog

Lifer
Jan 7, 2002
12,755
3
0
It turns out Toyota Motor Corp. isn't as strong as it appears in at least one area -- under the hood.

Testing under stricter new horsepower standards reveals that most of the models in Toyota's lineup have less oomph than the company has advertised. Even though the engines are unchanged, the automaker had to lower the horsepower ratings on all but few 2006 Toyota, Lexus and Scion models. The reductions range from 4 to 20 horsepower compared with 2005 models.

Honda Motor Co., the No. 2 Japanese automaker, also has downgraded the horsepower ratings on several models, including most of its Acura luxury brand.

But while the Japanese automakers overstated their power, an analysis of data compiled by Edmunds.com shows domestic vehicles have generally been testing at or slightly above previously stated horsepower. The testing suggests Detroit's automakers may have suffered unfairly in the battle of perceptions.

While drivers may not notice the difference, said George Peterson, president of consulting firm AutoPacific Inc, "it does matter to the manufacturers because each one is engaged in what I would call a brochure war where they're competing for the best specifications. And the average American likes a bigger horsepower number than a smaller one."

Most notably for Toyota, the rating for its top-selling Camry, when equipped with a 3.3-liter V-6 engine, had to be reduced to 190 horsepower from 210.

The V-6 version of Toyota's Highlander sport utility vehicle dropped from 230 to 215, and the Lexus LS and SC 430 decreased by 12.

The revised ratings comply with standards adopted by the Society of Automotive Engineers.

The standards specify which components and accessories should be on during testing and what kind of oil and fuel to use. To claim an SAE-certified rating, an automaker also must conduct tests in the presence of an independent witness.

"The intent of the revision was to tighten up the specifications," said Gary Pollak, an SAE program manager. "There were a lot of areas that were loose and subject to interpretation."

Peterson doesn't expect Toyota or Honda to face the same kind of backlash that Hyundai Motor Co. did after inflating the horsepower ratings of its U.S. vehicles by as much as 10 percent for more than a decade. The South Korea-based automaker agreed in 2004 to pay $30 million to settle a lawsuit filed on behalf of 858,000 owners.

But for consumers who covet powerful engines and allow horsepower ratings to influence which vehicles they purchase, the revisions could chip away at Honda and Toyota's reputations.

Consumers haven't taken kindly to overhyped claims.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060313/AUTO01/603130350
 

xanis

Lifer
Sep 11, 2005
17,571
8
0
lol, no one buys a camry for performance.... who cares if it gets 190hp?
 

MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
45,885
66
91
Originally posted by: Xanis
lol, no one buys a camry for performance.... who cares if it gets 190hp?


and... GM gets flamed for only putting 220 hp in the Malibu MAXX...
 

AnonymouseUser

Diamond Member
May 14, 2003
9,943
107
106
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
Originally posted by: Xanis
lol, no one buys a camry for performance.... who cares if it gets 190hp?


and... GM gets flamed for only putting 220 hp in the Malibu MAXX...

When horsepower is all GM has over the competition, I can understand.
 

MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
45,885
66
91
Originally posted by: AnonymouseUser
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
Originally posted by: Xanis
lol, no one buys a camry for performance.... who cares if it gets 190hp?


and... GM gets flamed for only putting 220 hp in the Malibu MAXX...

When horsepower is all GM has over the competition, I can understand.

eh, the Camry gets 268hp in 07 anyways...
 

AnonymouseUser

Diamond Member
May 14, 2003
9,943
107
106
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
Originally posted by: AnonymouseUser
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
Originally posted by: Xanis
lol, no one buys a camry for performance.... who cares if it gets 190hp?


and... GM gets flamed for only putting 220 hp in the Malibu MAXX...

When horsepower is all GM has over the competition, I can understand.

eh, the Camry gets 268hp in 07 anyways...

The Camry is bigger than the Malibu, so they aren't direct competitors anyway.
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,197
4
76
Originally posted by: AnonymouseUser
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
Originally posted by: AnonymouseUser
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
Originally posted by: Xanis
lol, no one buys a camry for performance.... who cares if it gets 190hp?


and... GM gets flamed for only putting 220 hp in the Malibu MAXX...

When horsepower is all GM has over the competition, I can understand.

eh, the Camry gets 268hp in 07 anyways...

The Camry is bigger than the Malibu, so they aren't direct competitors anyway.

A whole inch. That may be a lot for some, but it's not that big.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,749
584
126
Are you telling me my 1987 honda civic with performance exhaust might not be able to win a race with a mustang? WTF have I been spending all this money on this thing for! Arrrghh!
 

edro

Lifer
Apr 5, 2002
24,326
68
91
I could care less about that small amount of horsepower... but when they are competing directly with domestic cars, and winning... part of that win could have to do with people doing a side by side comparison and going with the Toyota or Honda based on horsepower.

We all know that Toyota and Honda are both far superior to domestic auto makers, but some people don't and base their purchase of price and horsepower alone.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Ford or Chevy sue, or at least use this in some new ad compaign.

 

RagingBITCH

Lifer
Sep 27, 2003
17,618
2
76
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: AnonymouseUser
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
Originally posted by: AnonymouseUser
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
Originally posted by: Xanis
lol, no one buys a camry for performance.... who cares if it gets 190hp?


and... GM gets flamed for only putting 220 hp in the Malibu MAXX...

When horsepower is all GM has over the competition, I can understand.

eh, the Camry gets 268hp in 07 anyways...

The Camry is bigger than the Malibu, so they aren't direct competitors anyway.

A whole inch. That may be a lot for some, but it's not that big.

Yea, next to you I'm a giant
 

DougK62

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2001
8,035
6
81
Originally posted by: edro
I could care less about that small amount of horsepower... but when they are competing directly with domestic cars, and winning... part of that win could have to do with people doing a side by side comparison and going with the Toyota or Honda based on horsepower.

We all know that Toyota and Honda are both far superior to domestic auto makers, but some people don't and base their purchase of price and horsepower alone.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Ford or Chevy sue, or at least use this in some new ad compaign.

How much less could you care?

 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,483
8,344
126
All I have to say is "meh". You test drove the car. You thought it felt fast enough/quick enough.

The revision in ratings isn't going to make it drive any slower today than it did yesterday.

 

FeuerFrei

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2005
9,144
929
126
Isn't this last year's news? Like last fall?
The revised ratings comply with standards adopted by the Society of Automotive Engineers.
Yeah I was right it is old news.
 

I Saw OJ

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2004
4,923
2
76
Who really cares? I doubt little miss new Camry buyer really cares about 20hp. Besides 190hp is plenty for a car like that.



Seth
 

edro

Lifer
Apr 5, 2002
24,326
68
91
Originally posted by: DougK62
Originally posted by: edro
I could care less about that small amount of horsepower... but when they are competing directly with domestic cars, and winning... part of that win could have to do with people doing a side by side comparison and going with the Toyota or Honda based on horsepower.

We all know that Toyota and Honda are both far superior to domestic auto makers, but some people don't and base their purchase of price and horsepower alone.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Ford or Chevy sue, or at least use this in some new ad compaign.
How much less could you care?
I really couldn't care less about your post.
 

Ryan

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
27,519
2
81
Originally posted by: MasterAndCommander
what about the EPA number...pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease don't tell me they lied about those!

As with the SAE numbers, these are both ratings that the manufacturers do not assign to their engines at their own will - the EPA ratings, as well as engine HP ratings are calculated using third party calculations.
 

zoiks

Lifer
Jan 13, 2000
11,787
3
81

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Originally posted by: Xanis
lol, no one buys a camry for performance.... who cares if it gets 190hp?


The point is the dishonesty, not the horsepower.
 
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