Toyota, Honda overstating Horsepower ratings.

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: ballmode
this came from Detroit... hmm...

at least they admit to their mistakes the Toyota/Honda whatever.

No matter 10hp give or take I'm still gonna buy one over the Ford/GM/Dodge just for overall fit and finish, resale, reliability, etc.

Not that I shun the american stuff in general, just they haven't caught up to my high standards I look for in a car. Once they do, I'll be in the market

Are you saying American car makers don't admit to their mistakes. Hmm.....kind of strange since they make recalls for even the smallest mistake, i.e. Pontiac G6 owner's manual recall.

And as far as high standards are concerned you clearly haven't taken a look at the new GMT900's.

 

[spike spiegal]

and was 'one' by a "redneck" Californian who happens to be very articulate

I'd hate to see if he got a 'two'.

Jimmy could enter a golf cart in a Nextel Cup race and still finish the race in the top 20 by grey matter alone consdering the guy has 40 I.Q points over the average buyer of an American car. Not sure what your point is.

So, the Japanese are trying to market towards uneducated American car buyers (and UPS drivers) who feel the urge to buy large vehicles to make up for the fact they've emphasized unskiled labor over college degrees for that past 50 years, and are paying for it.

How does a Cobalt compare to a Civic and Corolla again?

 

[spike spiegal]

And as far as high standards are concerned you clearly haven't taken a look at the new GMT900's.

'High standards' meaning you can use half a tank of gas with your GMT900 to move appliances from your front porch to your back porch?

More proof we need to put General Motors on death watch. They are getting slaughtered in terms of market share, and they introduce another SUV.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: spike spiegal

And as far as high standards are concerned you clearly haven't taken a look at the new GMT900's.

'High standards' meaning you can use half a tank of gas with your GMT900 to move appliances from your front porch to your back porch?

More proof we need to put General Motors on death watch. They are getting slaughtered in terms of market share, and they introduce another SUV.

The new SUV's have class leading fuel economy and GM will be introducing full hybrid version later this year or later next year.

And the "high standards" i was referring to were the interiors on the GMT900's.

 

[IGBT]

..I test drove a 2005 Tacoma v6. It's hp/torque ratings were similar to my 92 Dakota wit a V8. Even though the numbers were similar the Toy.didn't feel anywhere near as torqie as my Dakota with near 100k on it.

 

[Aftermath]

Originally posted by: spike spiegal

And as far as high standards are concerned you clearly haven't taken a look at the new GMT900's.

'High standards' meaning you can use half a tank of gas with your GMT900 to move appliances from your front porch to your back porch?

More proof we need to put General Motors on death watch. They are getting slaughtered in terms of market share, and they introduce another SUV.

The GMT900 is pretty important to GM I think. A large part of their current sales are coming from SUV and pickup trucks. The current Silverado isn't all that competitive anymore, and new pickups from Nissan and Toyota are gunning for more market share. If GM lets the GMT800 sit and rot, it'll surely lose more market to the Japanese. Just because SUV's and pickups aren't what we "need" right now doesn't mean that GM should let that segment stagnate and get sucked up by the Japanese. GM needs to maintain that foothold.

 

[J Heartless Slick]

Originally posted by: IGBT
..I test drove a 2005 Tacoma v6. It's hp/torque ratings were similar to my 92 Dakota wit a V8. Even though the numbers were similar the Toy.didn't feel anywhere near as torqie as my Dakota with near 100k on it.

Do the two engines develop their torque peaks at different rpms?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: Xanis
lol, no one buys a camry for performance.... who cares if it gets 190hp?

and... GM gets flamed for only putting 220 hp in the Malibu MAXX...

The Malibu MAXX is ugly as hell. I don't care if it puts out 280hp. It looks like ass.

i dont argue looks.

Why not? It seems to me that looks are one of the most important considerations when purchasing a new car.

A Pontiac Aztek might drive like a Ferrari but I'd never know because I wouldn't be caught dead in the ugly mutha-fvcker.

 

[WyteWatt]

Is anyone really surprised by this? The Japenese have been pulling this crap on Americans since Pearl Harbor. It's amazing how so many people forget who our true enemies are.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: WyteWatt
Is anyone really surprised by this? The Japenese have been pulling this crap on Americans since Pearl Harbor. It's amazing how so many people forget who our true enemies are.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :laugh:MAO!

Good one.

 

[WyteWatt]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: WyteWatt
Is anyone really surprised by this? The Japenese have been pulling this crap on Americans since Pearl Harbor. It's amazing how so many people forget who our true enemies are.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :laugh:MAO!

Good one.

What's it like being a traitor to your country?

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: J Heartless Slick

Originally posted by: IGBT
..I test drove a 2005 Tacoma v6. It's hp/torque ratings were similar to my 92 Dakota wit a V8. Even though the numbers were similar the Toy.didn't feel anywhere near as torqie as my Dakota with near 100k on it.

Do the two engines develop their torque peaks at different rpms?

..I'am shure that's what it is. The V8 has better torque at lower rpm which is why the v6 felt like a slug.

 

[Sukhoi]

Originally posted by: WyteWatt

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: WyteWatt
Is anyone really surprised by this? The Japenese have been pulling this crap on Americans since Pearl Harbor. It's amazing how so many people forget who our true enemies are.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :laugh:MAO!

Good one.

What's it like being a traitor to your country?

LOL imtim83.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

Originally posted by: NFS4
Troll bait? You posted this same exact sh!t 6 months ago Same source too.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...hreadid=1665874&enterthread=y&arctab=y

my thoughts exactly! i remember that post, too.

and this doesn't have anything to do with dishonesty. it has to do with a new industry standard for HP measurement, replacing the old standard and the standards that came before it, and that will result in different figures. were automakers lying when they posted the old EPA figures? no. they were just posting the results of a specific test, and everyone else was using the same test, and whether or not it reflected the real world was beside the point. just the same as today. just the same as the HP issue. so give it a rest already. and it's not like the japanese tried to cover it up. Honda (for example) has not been any more shy about advertising their new HP figures than the figures from the old tests. And the performance figures are the same. And as Zemmervolt mentioned, Detroit did the exact same thing.

The reference Zemmervolt made to the switch from gross to net ratings is not the same thing. That was an actual change in what was being measured.

As far as I can tell, this recent change is not a change in what is being measured, it is closing some loopholes, that apparently were only used by some manufacturers, which is why some brands have not had to revise their hp numbers.

btw, I introduced the word dishonesty into the thread, I think, but not to say that there necessarily is dishonesty in this, but to point out to someone that that is the reason why it's a story, not because the hp difference makes a functional difference.

However, there is a marketing advantage to having 200 hp or greater, versus having just under 200 hp, whch leads me to think that Toyota might have stretched the old rules to get over 200.

The SAE has revised the procedure. This is not a clarification of earlier standards, it is a revision. SAE net hp requires that all tests be conducted with all accessories attached and everything except the A/C compressor running. No automaker can test without having the alternator or PS pump attached and have a valid SAE number. Remember that the numbers published before were sanctioned by the SAE, so it's not as though any company was doing something sneaky. To have an SAE sanctioned number (which all the old HP ratings from Honda and Toyota were) you have to have an SAE representative present. So in order for Toyota and Honda to have been fudging the numbers, the SAE would have had to have been in cahoots.

Despite my having grow up just an hour or so from Detroit and having a soft spot in my heart for the "freep" (Detroit Free Press) the simple fact is that they skew everything automotive in favor of the Big 3.

ZV

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: WyteWatt

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: WyteWatt
Is anyone really surprised by this? The Japenese have been pulling this crap on Americans since Pearl Harbor. It's amazing how so many people forget who our true enemies are.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :laugh:MAO!

Good one.

What's it like being a traitor to your country?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :laugh:MAO!

Even better!

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: WyteWatt

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: WyteWatt
Is anyone really surprised by this? The Japenese have been pulling this crap on Americans since Pearl Harbor. It's amazing how so many people forget who our true enemies are.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :laugh:MAO!

Good one.

What's it like being a traitor to your country?

I remember seeing a picture of a parking lot during a Pearl Harbor survivors meeting. It was almost 50% Honda/Toyota/Lexus. They understand that you can't hold the current generation accountable for the sins of the previous generation.

ZV

 

[kimagurealex]

Parking lot is one of the main reasons why I decide to go for a Porsche Cayenne S over those Japanese SUV and BMW X5.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: Ryan

Originally posted by: NFS4
Troll bait? You posted this same exact sh!t 6 months ago Same source too.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...hreadid=1665874&enterthread=y&arctab=y

ROTFLMO!!! PWONED@!!

BAHAHA REPLIFORCE

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Actually the 95 Maxima had 190hp, and that engine was still a lot better than Honda and Toyota competition even up to 2002. The VQ just has a ton of low end torque that just keeps on giving through the rev band.

Man, my dad had one of those Maximas. F*cking beautiful car. Would've been mine too, but the A/C broke in 2003 and fixing it wouldn't have been very logical, wasn't worth enough to warrant paying alot to fix the A/C.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: kimagurealex
Parking lot is one of the main reasons why I decide to go for a Porsche Cayenne S over those Japanese SUV and BMW X5.

Um, what? Is that like liking lamp?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
*Sigh*

Torque > HP

HP != Torque

HP = (Torque * rpm) / 5252

 

[psteng19]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Actually the 95 Maxima had 190hp, and that engine was still a lot better than Honda and Toyota competition even up to 2002. The VQ just has a ton of low end torque that just keeps on giving through the rev band.

The 2000 Maxima SE Anniversary Edition had 227 hp out of the 3.0 liter (as well as the I30).

 

[boyRacer]

Originally posted by: Sukhoi

Originally posted by: WyteWatt

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: WyteWatt
Is anyone really surprised by this? The Japenese have been pulling this crap on Americans since Pearl Harbor. It's amazing how so many people forget who our true enemies are.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :laugh:MAO!

Good one.

What's it like being a traitor to your country?

LOL imtim83.

yeah he's a bigger e-thug now because of his new username.

 

[boyRacer]

Originally posted by: NFS4
Troll bait? You posted this same exact sh!t 6 months ago Same source too.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...hreadid=1665874&enterthread=y&arctab=y

 

[Ryan]

Ah ha - found out the reason for the HP differences:

"The new SAE standards DO NOT let you put premium in the engines while testing despite the engines requiring premium. Basically, every engine in the Acura linup requires premium. There are dynos on other forums of Accord V6's making 6-8 whp just by putting premium."