Toyota reports record $14-billion profit ! ! Cha-Ching!

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: jupiter57

Originally posted by: iversonyin

Originally posted by: jupiter57
GM & Ford only "lost" as much as they did because they give their Top Executives multi-million dollar bonuses, usually far, far greater than the "losses" they post.
The American Tax system at it's best.

You like talking out of your a** don't you? Lets fire all the top executive and let monkeys run the companies because monkeys can do a better job for the price of a banana.

Getting a bit defensive here, are we?
I didn't even hint at the Top Executives being in any way incompetent, nor worth their pay!
I am in upper management myself, when we make a profit, my bonuses are good, when we don't turn a profit, I get no bonus.
These bonuses are paid AFTER all figures are done and we know how much actual profit we had, we don't count our bonuses as a "cost of doing business".
It just doesn't seem right to be able to post a "loss" when you have given your executives more in bonuses than the loss you claim to have suffered.
Say GM claims to have "lost" 2 Billion dollars. I would bet that if you scrutinized their accounting for the year, you would find that they indeed gave far more than that in "bonuses". Does this make sense to you?
Top executives usually earn a good paycheck, and many (not all) are worth it.
Seems you missed my point completely.

Comprehension is a good thing, try it.

i'm not an accountant, but i'm pretty sure you're violating GAAP.

 

[bctbct]

Toyota profits

Some people pay a lot for a car that costs less to build <golf clap>

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Sraaz
Good, imo. Get rid of our crappy American vehicles.

That's very short-sighted.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Sraaz
Good, imo. Get rid of our crappy American vehicles.

That's very short-sighted.

You mean just like American car manufacturers?

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Analog

Originally posted by: Turkish
Cool.

Btw, OP, you are still nothing but a dick.

Not sure what you are referring to. Perhaps you mistook this forum for P&N, Noob?

I think he's not content with your non-response to the same insult in this thread:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=38&threadid=2044721&enterthread=y

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: 1prophet
The problem is not with the cars but a cultural one that permeates most American businesses where short term, immediate profits are held above long term goals who's immediate results cannot be seen.

Bingo. Stock market is not supposed to work the way it is working now. Shareholders should have no say in business working. Don't like the business? sell the stocks.

Really, if American business culture is so bad, why has our economy been roaring, while the Japanese economy been in the toilet for the last 15 years? Aside from the auto sector they got nothing. And they will lose the auto sector to someone else sooner or later, like they lost the electronics, computer, memory, pretty much every sector where they had tough competition in. It may take a while, but it's almost inevitable.

Give anyone enough credit they can roar also, but the day is coming when the piper has to be paid along with the interest.

That's not the issue. Credit was dirt cheap in Japan during the time their economy has been in the toilet. They even had negative interest rates. They couldn't give the loan money away interest free. They simply ran out of ideas on how to make money, I guess.

It's very much the issue if you look at the main cause called instant gratification, cheapest is best, always low prices mentality, buy now worry about how to pay for it later, and later is here for the auto manufacturers.

This here goes into more depth about the difference in business philosophy or culture.

Learning From Toyota -- Again

Matheson's advice: "Anyone seeking to emulate Toyota's success should start with the first of Toyota's 14 management principles as outlined in Liker's book, The Toyota Way. "Base your management decisions on a long-term philosophy, even at the expense of short-term financial goals."

Excerpts from the Toyota Way:

Base your management decisions on a long-term philosophy, even at the expense of short-term goals.

Create continuous process flow to bring problems to the surface.

Use "pull" systems to avoid overproduction.

Level out the workload (heijunka). (Work like the tortoise, not the hare.)

Build a culture of stopping to fix problems, to get quality right the first time.

Standardized tasks are the foundation for continuous improvement and employee empowerment.

Use visual control so that no problems are hidden.

Use only reliable, thoroughly tested technology that serves your people and processes.

Grow leaders who thoroughly understand the work, live the philosophy and teach it to others.

Develop exceptional people and teams who follow your company's philosophies.

Respect your extended network of partners and suppliers by challenging them and helping them to improve.

Go and see for yourself to thoroughly understand the situation (genchi genbutsu).

Make decisions slowly by consensus, thoroughly considering all options; implement decisions rapidly.

Become a learning organization through relentless reflection (hansei) and continuous improvement (kaizen).

What does that have to do with credit? Credit was dirt cheap in Japan, and their economy hasn't roared. SO you are wrong that cheap credit is all it takes. Toyota may be doing well, but Japanese economy has gone nowhere in 15 years.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Sraaz
Good, imo. Get rid of our crappy American vehicles.

That's very short-sighted.

You mean just like American car manufacturers?

I think he means like America haters.

 

[Yreka]

Originally posted by: NFS4
I don't feel sorry for Detroit one bit.

Ow come on.. Have some heart.. Have you seen their football team ?

 

[Antisocial Virge]

My parents have a Toyota with over 400K Km on it and its going strong, they only buy Toyotas now. I wonder why...

 

[Tommy2000GT]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: Tommy2000GT
Toyota FTW. I used to be a Ford fan but they have nothing that interests me except for mustangs.

I bought a 2006 toyota tacoma double cab 4x4. It was the only truck crew cab 4x4 truck that got over 20mpg.

No it's not, the Colorado Crew cab 4x4 actually gets the same mileage, although it isn't much competition to the Taco.

a Colorado is a huge POS. It has an anemic 5cyl engine (yes it has 240hp but it's also a torqueless wonder), horrible build quality, tiny, and looks cheap.

a Taco will sh*t all over a Colorado in every category

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Goo
Toyota/Honda is selling car base on their past reputation alone, nothing more. Everyone and their dog have a toyota/Honda and they try to tell everyone how good their car WAS.

If you check out the 06 recall, Toyota and Honda are recalling left right and center. And people talking about how jap company renew their model every 4-5yrs.. Guess what, Corolla have been the same since 2000.

I had a 1997 corolla, I have now a 2001 corolla, and my mom has a 2006 corolla, all cars are very different

so no, they are not the same

 

[compuwiz1]

Hooray for Toyota. Boohiss for American cars, all you want, but we created this problem. We should have never let them be imported to begin with. Very smart people, who managed to get a foothold in this market and build a superior quality car.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Hooray for Toyota. Boohiss for American cars, all you want, but we created this problem. We should have never let them be imported to begin with. Very smart people, who managed to get a foothold in this market and build a superior quality car.

Why not nuke them?

Again.

 

[Czar]

One story I saw on discovery about Toyota. They set a seemingly impossible goal to one of their Brazilian factories, reduce the cost of the 4cyl engine from $10.000 per engine down to $5.000 per engine.... and they did it. Smarter manufacturing, smarter engineering, less materials and so on. Thats how Toyota works

 

[Eli]

lol.. I'm only about 1/3rd of the way down the first page, but I must comment.

I've seen the "But their losses cause people to suffer" comment a few times...

Uh, yeah? It happens. Companies fold every day because another company offers something better. The only difference between any of the Big 3 and two competing corner bakeries are the number of dollars and people effected.

It's pretty much how capitalism works, is it not? Fortunately, these companies are big enough to be able to afford a few years of red while they get their sh!t together.

If they chose to not get their sh!t together, they will suffer the consequences.

 

[angminas]

I'm not reading this whole thread.

I saw this coming about 15 years ago, and so did anybody who knew anything about cars and didn't wear blinders. (People older and wiser than me at the time probably saw it no later than 1985(?), when the first Acuras came over.) If Toyota were an American company, they'd have reached this point a long time ago. A lot of people don't want to send their hard earned American dollars to a bunch of <insert racist comment>s overseas, and the fact that they will do so says a lot. I prefer to buy American products when I reasonably can- even to the point that people make fun of me for checking labels and avoiding Wal-Mart- but I drive Toyota, have in the past, and will continue to do so in the future, until American manufacturers offer me what Toyota has been for many years. The difference in quality per dollar is nothing short of extraordinary.

Toyota has EARNED my business. By comparison, American cars at large are an insult.

 

[desy]

So your lazy research on cars is just as lazy as your ability to read the whole thread.

A lot of the quality overlaps as proved out by some of the links provided.
If you want to stick with one brand your whole life whithout ever testing the market thats your perogative, but to me I'd be sad if I was stuck to so little choice.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: desy
So your lazy research on cars is just as lazy as your ability to read the whole thread.

A lot of the quality overlaps as proved out by some of the links provided.
If you want to stick with one brand your whole life whithout ever testing the market thats your perogative, but to me I'd be sad if I was stuck to so little choice.

Having choice is wonderful, and I fully agree with you there.. but here's the thing though.. It doesn't matter on the business side of things if you don't have your sh!t together.

If Company A has a better product than Company B, but Company B has better marketing and product recognition, causing Company A to fold... that is life. Too bad. Game over, try again?

Obviously thats a simplified view, but you get the point. Cognitive reality is a pretty strange thing, as it completely depends on individual perception and therefor is unique. A person can believe in something so much, that it is true to them even if it is false in reality.

I'll probably get flamed for this, but the only example I can think of is prayer. You can believe all you want that God brought you what you asked for, but in reality, you brought it to yourself by thinking about it and holding that idea in your mind.

That's how all great inventions, or any invention for that matter, have been created. It didn't exist until someone held the idea in their head and created it.

/rambling

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Of course our own Congress is cheering them on and trying to keep the Big 3 from selling their profitable cars with some ridiculous CAFE standards.
Guess who is going to bail out the pension systems of the Big 3 if they go under? The taxpayers who insured them. So before you cheer for GM's demise, maybe you need to think about what that would mean.

Originally posted by: senseamp
Well, yeah, but when people use Toyota to make a point about Japanese business culture being superior to ours, it's just laughable. Toyota is the exception. Mainly because of mistakes by our automakers, mainly having to do with their commitment to providing their retirees with pensions and healthcare. I think their other decisions sort of flow out of their huge liabilities. If you are spending so much money on pensions, it dictates what products you can sell and still be profitable. You need to sell high margin trucks and SUVs because economy cars don't have the profits to pay for your fixed costs. It also takes money away from R&D. I think the government needs to take some of the Big 3's pension liabilities to allow them to recover, because if the Big 3 go under, the government will have to swallow all of their pension liabilities, since they are government insured.

We need to clear something up so you stop spreading misinformation. The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) acts just like a traditional insurance company except it is administered by the government and a not for profit venture. Companies pay a premium into the company to insure their pension liabilities. There is NO taxpayer money flowing into this fund. It is not backed by the full faith and credit of the US Federal government either. If, really when, the PBGC goes insolvent the people with pensions insured by them will simply be out of luck and stuck with Social Security as their only income source if they did not do personal planning for retirement.

The problem with the PBGC today is the incoming premiums are nowhere near the amount needed to make all the payouts. Because of this retired pensioners drawing from the fund are receiving far below the amount they would be if the company they worked for had not turned it's pensions over to the PBGC. I know retired pilots that at one time were receiving $10K a month from their airline when it was solvent who now receive about $2-3K a month from the PBGC.

The system is broken because companies are abusing it and dumping their pensions that THEY promised to pay in order to save money. Ignoring the problem isn't going to solve anything but that seems to be the MO of our Congress these days. The only way the taxpayer could end up eating these costs is if the Congress takes action to bail them out but it is not automatic since the PBGC is NOT government insured. The taxpayer SHOULD not be shouldering this burden either and it would be a terrible idea to let mismanaged companies dump their responsibilities onto the taxpayer. Rewarding bad behavior just leads to more bad behavior.

It is very likely that anyone relying on pension benefits from the PBGC will be left with nothing at some point in the future. My suggestion to anyone holding a pension from a company in an at-risk industry is to save as much as you can. You should have been doing that from the day you started working but if you haven't been and don't start now you will very likely be out of luck.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: fisheerman
This thread is kinda funny because last night while watching the shield with the girl I couldn't believe all of the commercials from the "BIG 3" pushing their mustangs, chargers, SUVs etc.

Not that I am against these vehicles ( i actually have a suburban) but we were talking about the train wrecks we call auto companies.

Who are these all knowing, outrageously paid executives of these companies that are making the decisions?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what the problem is!

Gas is 3.00+ a gallon and all you can pimp is gas guzzling cars and SUVs that cost the average citizen a 100+ dollars to fill up. gee we don't know why we are getting beat. oh yeah it the unions!

Hello McFly.................................

So here it is

To all of the execs at the Big 3 here is a little secret

Make some cars that gets 15% better gas mileage than the competition import sedans (Accord, Camry) and has some symbliance of style! I think you can probably divert some of the borrowed money that you run on and get this right

damn is it that hard to figure out?

And for those who DO continue to buy those cars, make a Corvette and Cobra that doesn't have the interior of a Cavalier or Taurus.

And good for Toyota for building a quality product that people will pay for. The only thing I have ever had go bad on a 1995 Camry and a 2006 Avalon is a oil filter every 3000 miles and a timing belt every 60,000 miles.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: angminas
I'm not reading this whole thread.

I saw this coming about 15 years ago, and so did anybody who knew anything about cars and didn't wear blinders. (People older and wiser than me at the time probably saw it no later than 1985(?), when the first Acuras came over.) If Toyota were an American company, they'd have reached this point a long time ago. A lot of people don't want to send their hard earned American dollars to a bunch of <insert racist comment>s overseas, and the fact that they will do so says a lot. I prefer to buy American products when I reasonably can- even to the point that people make fun of me for checking labels and avoiding Wal-Mart- but I drive Toyota, have in the past, and will continue to do so in the future, until American manufacturers offer me what Toyota has been for many years. The difference in quality per dollar is nothing short of extraordinary.

Toyota has EARNED my business. By comparison, American cars at large are an insult.

Many Toyota's sold here are actually built here in American factories by American workers, so don't feel too bad about that =D

 

[angminas]

Originally posted by: desy
So your lazy research on cars is just as lazy as your ability to read the whole thread.

A lot of the quality overlaps as proved out by some of the links provided.
If you want to stick with one brand your whole life whithout ever testing the market thats your perogative, but to me I'd be sad if I was stuck to so little choice.

I looked for my last car for a month before buying it. I took a bus 500 miles to the dealership and spent an hour looking it over. I did a Carfax. I spent 1/3 as much as I would have on the next best car for my needs I had found up to that point (which I drove 120 miles to look at).

I pay attention to more than just the internet when I determine quality, with cars and everything else.

I've owned Ford, Oldsmobile, Mercury, Subaru, and Toyota. I have also driven Hyundai, Chevrolet, and Honda. And I don't mean just one test drive.

Did you really think pretending you could read my mind was going to make you look better than me? If you feel like editing out your message, I'll edit out this one.

 

[desy]

Edit my comments!
I don't think so this is the internet baby.
Snap judgements, half truths, trolling, baiting, its all good. . .

 

[Amoreena]

Give me a big 3 car that is stylish and gets good mpgs and I'd buy it.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Ktulu
I see you're point. But as of late Toyota's quality has gone down, while GM's has gone up significantly. I won't say GM's cars are better than Toyota's, because they're not, but they don't suck (except for the Malibu). It's almost as if people won't even give them a chance anymore.

Latest quality/reliability results from JD Power and Consumer Reports:

reliabilitysmr.jpg
2006133a.gif

Well, from that Chart, Toyota's best selling I4 Camry has only Average reliability. Lower than Sonata or Fusion triplets, or Mazda3. That car is their bread and butter in America, and they can't even get it right. The people who are paying more for the Camry because of "reliability" are just wasting money, and could be driving a much nicer looking, better handling, and more reliable Fusion for less money.

What?? Toyota is ranked first!!?!?

Additionally, have you read the reviews on the fusion? The fusion can't hold a candle to the Accord and Camry.

I generally prefer Toyotas for my mid-sized trucks (Tacoma's are amazing!!) as well as regular SUV's (4-Runner). I generally prefer Honda's for Cars (Civic, Accord...). Not to mention their luxury line (Lexus and Acura respectively) just make it even better.

I've driven a Mazda 3 and to be honest, while the car looks pretty nice, it still has nothing on the Civic. I don't even know how you can say that the Fusion or the Mazda 3 is way better than the Honda or Toyota equivalent.

This thread is full of people who are completely and utterly blind towards the flaws of our cars here in America. Fusion and Mazda 3 are a step in the right direction (As are Acadia etc...) but they have a long way to go with the Toyotas and Hondas continually being refined and improved.

-Kevin