[TPU] AMD Radeon HD 7000 Series Won't Fully Support DirectX 11.2

[csbin]

http://www.techpowerup.com/189262/amd-radeon-hd-7000-series-wont-fully-support-directx-11-2.html

Graphics processors based on first-generation Graphics CoreNext micro-architecture, slotted inside the "Southern Islands" and "Sea Islands" families, and branded under Radeon HD 7000 and Radeon HD 8000 (OEM) series, don't fully support Microsoft DirectX 11.2 API. Exclusive with the upcoming Windows 8.1 operating system, the Direct3D component of DirectX 11.2 introduces a handful of revolutionary consumer 3D features, such as "D3D tiled resources," which is analogous to OpenGL mega-textures; HLSL shader linking, frame-buffer scaling, etc.

In an interview with German publication c't Magazin, AMD engineer Laylah Mah pointed out that a feedback routine Microsoft deployed in the final specification of DirectX 11.2 turned out different from the one AMD anticipated. Mah stressed that the incompatibility is not at the level of the hardware, but the driver. The GPUs inside next-generation consoles like Microsoft Xbox One and Sony PlayStation 4 aren't fundamentally different from current AMD GPU micro-architecture, and at least one of the two, Xbox One, will leverage the latest DirectX.

 

[paul878]

No one is going to cry over it.

 

[DiogoDX]

No suprise. GCN lauch in 2012 with DX11.1 and Kepler with DX11.0. Only next cards will be full DX11.2.

 

[KingFatty]

So it's an issue with the current software drivers only, not the hardware? Why doesn't the title say the current drivers don't fully support it? Is the title just wrong?

Why is this even news? I mean honestly, I am curious why this is being posted as something that is worth posting? I think I'm missing the point.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

I dunno KingFatty, I just figured I had reading fail again... But that's how I read it.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The new features of DX11.2 don't require new hardware, just software support which will happen when it matters.

 

[FalseChristian]

The new features of DX11.2 don't require new hardware, just software support which will happen when it matters.

Are you sure? So even my old GTX 460 1GBs would support Direct X 11.2 thru the drivers?

 

[RussianSensation]

The new features of DX11.2 don't require new hardware, just software support which will happen when it matters.

The fact that only Windows 8.1 supports DX11.2 would automatically make this feature set a failure for the next 2-3 years. It will take a long time for the industry to migrate to Windows 8.1 on a % basis. Right now, most users who have migrated to Windows 8 are laptop users, not desktop. This is a classic example of MS trying to get people to upgrade from Windows 7 and failing.

By the time next generation games even start using DX11.2, we'll have long upgraded to next generation's GPUs that support such features anyway.

 

[balane]

Edit: Wrong thread, apologies.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Ofcourse it doesnt support it. It will be CPU handled if anything by the wrapper.

But does it matter? Not at all!

 

[3DVagabond]

Are you sure? So even my old GTX 460 1GBs would support Direct X 11.2 thru the drivers?

Not sure if serious? >:-I

 

[Shmee]

The way I read this, the drivers/software simply aren't out yet for the support. I would think they would work with current GCN cards when released, but there will likely be better cards out then.

 

[3DVagabond]

The way I read this, the drivers/software simply aren't out yet for the support. I would think they would work with current GCN cards when released, but there will likely be better cards out then.

Agreed. At this point in time they don't support it. That doesn't mean they won't support it, as the title says.

 

[zlatan]

OK. Enough with this kind of misunderstanding.
Let's see the facts:
- DX11.2 will be supported by any DX11 or DX11.1 GPUs.
- Tiled Resources support is not mandatory, it's just an option.

I created a list that contains the most relevant gaming features in DX11.1/11.2 and the hardware support for it.

Mandatory features:
Logic operations in the Output Merger:
NVIDIA Kepler: Yes
NVIDIA Fermi: Yes
AMD GCN: Yes
AMD VLIW4/5: Yes
Intel Gen7.5: Yes
Intel Gen7: No

UAV-only rendering:
NVIDIA Kepler: Yes
NVIDIA Fermi: Yes
AMD GCN: Yes
AMD VLIW4/5: Yes
Intel Gen7.5: Yes
Intel Gen7: Yes

UAV in non-pixel-shader stages:
NVIDIA Kepler: No (technically yes, but the DX limit this option in feature_level_11_0)
NVIDIA Fermi: No (technically yes, but the DX limit this option in feature_level_11_0)
AMD GCN: Yes
AMD VLIW4/5: No (technically yes, but the DX limit this option in feature_level_11_0)
Intel Gen7.5: Yes
Intel Gen7: No

Larger number of UAVs:
NVIDIA Kepler: No (8)
NVIDIA Fermi: No (8)
AMD GCN: Yes (64)
AMD VLIW4/5: No (8)
Intel Gen7.5: Yes (64)
Intel Gen7: No (8)

HLSL FLG:
NVIDIA Kepler: Yes
NVIDIA Fermi: Yes
AMD GCN: Yes
AMD VLIW4/5: Yes
Intel Gen7.5: Yes
Intel Gen7: Yes

------------------------------------------

Optional features:
Tiled Resources support:
NVIDIA Kepler: Yes (tier1)
NVIDIA Fermi: No (tier0)
AMD GCN: Yes (tier2)
AMD VLIW4/5: No (tier0)
Intel Gen7.5: no (tier0)
Intel Gen7: No (tier0)

Feature level support:
NVIDIA Kepler: 11_0
NVIDIA Fermi: 11_0
AMD GCN: 11_1
AMD VLIW4/5: 11_0
Intel Gen7.5: 11_1
Intel Gen7: 11_0

Conservative Depth Output:
NVIDIA Kepler: No
NVIDIA Fermi: No
AMD GCN: Yes
AMD VLIW4/5: Yes
Intel Gen7.5: No
Intel Gen7: No

 

[KingFatty]

It just baffles me when you see a thread title that is divorced from reality and the very article that it puts up for support.

Like posting a thread titled "the sky is pink!" and citing a link to wikipedia for support where the wikipedia article says "the sky is definitely blue not pink"

Is the title for this thread a typo? Or did the first post cite the incorrect article?

 

[Red Hawk]

The fact that only Windows 8.1 supports DX11.2 would automatically make this feature set a failure for the next 2-3 years. It will take a long time for the industry to migrate to Windows 8.1 on a % basis. Right now, most users who have migrated to Windows 8 are laptop users, not desktop. This is a classic example of MS trying to get people to upgrade from Windows 7 and failing.

By the time next generation games even start using DX11.2, we'll have long upgraded to next generation's GPUs that support such features anyway.

If it really becomes critical, I expect Microsoft can bring it to Win 7 with a platform update. The industry will migrate, as features of D3D 11.2 will be used in next-gen consoles. I think you'll see support for 11.2 in PC games a lot quicker than we saw support for 10 or 11. It remains to be seen just how much of a performance godsend "tiled resources" is going to be; it may be that a GPU and OS running 11.2 gets a lot more performance with high-res textures than it would without 11.2.

 

[ShintaiDK]

If it really becomes critical, I expect Microsoft can bring it to Win 7 with a platform update. The industry will migrate, as features of D3D 11.2 will be used in next-gen consoles. I think you'll see support for 11.2 in PC games a lot quicker than we saw support for 10 or 11. It remains to be seen just how much of a performance godsend "tiled resources" is going to be; it may be that a GPU and OS running 11.2 gets a lot more performance with high-res textures than it would without 11.2.

The platform update is not full support. Just some of the features.

 

[moonbogg]

So this answers people who ask what card to get for future proofing.

 

[cmdrdredd]

So this answers people who ask what card to get for future proofing.

None of them...you need to buy a future GPU to be future proof.

 

[Red Hawk]

The platform update is not full support. Just some of the features.

I'm not talking about the current platform update that brings some support for 11.1 over to Win7. I'm saying that if Microsoft feels it is critical, they can bring 11.2 over to Win7 through a platform update.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I'm not talking about the current platform update that brings some support for 11.1 over to Win7. I'm saying that if Microsoft feels it is critical, they can bring 11.2 over to Win7 through a platform update.

Not really. Because you would need the new kernel too. Since you need to support the newer WDDM driver. MS made sure it couldnt happen.

 

[TerryMathews]

Not really. Because you would need the new kernel too. Since you need to support the newer WDDM driver. MS made sure it couldnt happen.

Please. If Wine can make DirectX run on the Linux kernel, Microsoft can make 11.2 run on the Windows 7 kernel.

Obviously due to architectural changes, it would have to be a fork of the existing code base to allow for differences in the platforms but there's no reason why those shared libraries can't make the appropriate call conversions.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Please. If Wine can make DirectX run on the Linux kernel, Microsoft can make 11.2 run on the Windows 7 kernel.

Obviously due to architectural changes, it would have to be a fork of the existing code base to allow for differences in the platforms but there's no reason why those shared libraries can't make the appropriate call conversions.

Because something is possible, it doesnt mean it performs, its reliable or is something worthwhile.

 

[TerryMathews]

Because something is possible, it doesnt mean it performs, its reliable or is something worthwhile.

Apples and oranges. Wine is a reverse engineered library. Microsoft has the full tech specs for 11.2 as they wrote it.

The parent post said Microsoft could port it back to Windows 7 if they felt they needed to. You've explained why they won't, and I agree with you they won't. I do not agree with your statement that they can't.

 

[Sable]

I'm not sure I understand the problem/relevance. A future version of DX isn't supported by cards that came out 18 months ago. This is a surprise how?!