TPU: First Intel Processor with AMD Radeon Graphics Within 2017

[BFG10K]

Looks like last year's rumor continues to persist with the claim AMD will give Intel finished iGPU dies to bundle with their processors.

If true I think this is fantastic news for AMD (and the consumer) as that deal alone would likely make them profitable. Even last quarter they were still bleeding cash.

https://www.techpowerup.com/230360/first-intel-processor-with-amd-radeon-graphics-within-2017

 

[jpiniero]

The whole purpose of it would be so that Intel can cost cut by laying off their IGP department, IMO.

It certainly would add fuel to the fire to the rumor that Navi would be fabbed at Intel's 10 nm.

 

[ThatBuzzkiller]

The MCM sounds like a bad idea ...

No reason to do that when Intel get's benefits from CPU and GPU integration. The only reason I can think of that Intel would want to use AMD graphics is because of better drivers, better software stack and better open source drivers ... (GL 4.5 conformant, radeonsi is better than i965, less issues with OpenCL, ROCm etc.)

 

[nathanddrews]

1. Hypothetical licensing idea picked up by tech site
2. Idea promoted on message boards
3. Speculative message board post by person that runs another tech site
4. https://media.giphy.com/media/rl0FOxdz7CcxO/giphy.gif

I'll admit, it is a fun idea to think about.

That news post contains 7 sentences, each containing the word "could".

 

[swilli89]

So THIS might be why AMD stock options are up 60% today... Incredible

 

[Headfoot]

Pump and dump stock rumor maybe?

 

[Madpacket]

I always thought this rumour was weird. I mean AMD is the on the verge of shaking up Intel with Ryzen. 3 more weeks apparently...

 

[NTMBK]

So the guy who made up this rumour in the first place has now repeated it again. Yay?

 

[Murloc]

this wouldn't make any sense for AMD.

APUs for use in HTPCs are the only thing they get recommended for atm, they're not going to give that away by allowing intel to make entry-level APUs with AMD graphics.
And now ryzen is coming out and the graphics part could be their competitive advantage in the low-end if the single-threaded performance doesn't reach intel.

The only rumour that is not pure conjecture is that intel and AMD have reached a licensing agreement. There's nothing weird about that and it absolutely doesn't mean they're going to share anything. AMD has licenses to intel stuff as well.

 

[littleg]

Wasn't this just about Intel licensing GPU patents from AMD? AMD have a cross-licensing deal with Nvidia IIRC so Intel need to license from one of them in order that their GPUs don't infringe.

 

[jpiniero]

this wouldn't make any sense for AMD.

AMD needs the money basically. I'm not saying it's real or not but it's not unrealistic that RTG would do this if it meant a nice profitable stream.

 

[VirtualLarry]

AMD needs the money basically. I'm not saying it's real or not but it's not unrealistic that RTG would do this if it meant a nice profitable stream.

Given the qty of processors that Intel ships, if this rumor is real, the agreement could afford AMD the ability to never have to worry about the WSA ever again, for the most part.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I think people are missing a blatantly obvious reason why this could be true but not be some crazy shakeup of the market: Apple.

I think this is a custom setup for Macbook Pros. I don't see Apple switching to Zen in their laptops soon. Zen seems to be competitive on desktop (by design, it seems tailored for that versus how Intel has been tailoring their designs towards mobile), but that's quite different from laptops, and there's a lot of lower level software work that companies have done to improve laptops power efficiency because they could focus on Intel's chips. That will take time to develop for AMD so I think we'll see Intel maintain an advantage in mobile. We know Apple is sticking with AMD's graphics, so it makes sense for them to make the Intel CPU and AMD GPU work together better. They have the money and clout to make it happen for sure. So Intel and AMD work together to appease Apple, and neither one needs to do much to accomplish it, so they're not really buddying up too much that would hurt them if they go head to head more. And Apple uses that leverage to keep AMD and Intel willing to appease them (after all, Apple could leverage Zen or even their own ARM CPU against Intel, and Nvidia GPU against AMD).

I think Apple is going to take an Intel CPU and AMD GPU and put them one one of their small boards (Apple has been shrinking the size of the their motherboards, at this point it practically is MCM or even an interposer). The memory setup makes for interesting speculation, would they go for an IRIS chip and use it as a graphics buffer (like Microsoft does on Xbox One), or might we see HBM (just in small quantities, like 1-2GB), or maybe just a large pool of DDR4 (since I don't think gaming performance is much of a focus for Apple on laptops, they might view the benefits of the shared memory space for the CPU and GPU as being the more important factor).

 

[Headfoot]

I think people are missing a blatantly obvious reason why this could be true but not be some crazy shakeup of the market: Apple.

I think this is a custom setup for Macbook Pros. I don't see Apple switching to Zen in their laptops soon. Zen seems to be competitive on desktop (by design, it seems tailored for that versus how Intel has been tailoring their designs towards mobile), but that's quite different from laptops, and there's a lot of lower level software work that companies have done to improve laptops power efficiency because they could focus on Intel's chips. That will take time to develop for AMD so I think we'll see Intel maintain an advantage in mobile. We know Apple is sticking with AMD's graphics, so it makes sense for them to make the Intel CPU and AMD GPU work together better. They have the money and clout to make it happen for sure. So Intel and AMD work together to appease Apple, and neither one needs to do much to accomplish it, so they're not really buddying up too much that would hurt them if they go head to head more. And Apple uses that leverage to keep AMD and Intel willing to appease them (after all, Apple could leverage Zen or even their own ARM CPU against Intel, and Nvidia GPU against AMD).

I think Apple is going to take an Intel CPU and AMD GPU and put them one one of their small boards (Apple has been shrinking the size of the their motherboards, at this point it practically is MCM or even an interposer). The memory setup makes for interesting speculation, would they go for an IRIS chip and use it as a graphics buffer (like Microsoft does on Xbox One), or might we see HBM (just in small quantities, like 1-2GB), or maybe just a large pool of DDR4 (since I don't think gaming performance is much of a focus for Apple on laptops, they might view the benefits of the shared memory space for the CPU and GPU as being the more important factor).

99.9% chance its a fake rumor, since there is absolutely zero indication it came from anyone who would know anything like this

 

[Snarf Snarf]

Didn't Canard PC have that binary string in one of their issues that said AMD GPU inside Intel CPU or something to that effect? CPC has way more credibility in the industry and is often an exclusive source of leaks.

 

[whm1974]

I doubt this will happen considering that Intel has enough resources to vastly improve their iGPU tech and drivers to match or even exceed AMD's own iGPU. Of course anyone wants higher performance graphics can simply buy and install a video card anyway, so this may be rather pointless for Intel to do.

 

[beginner99]

I doubt this will happen considering that Intel has enough resources to vastly improve their iGPU tech and drivers to match or even exceed AMD's own iGPU. Of course anyone wants higher performance graphics can simply buy and install a video card anyway, so this may be rather pointless for Intel to do.

Came here to pretty much write this. What would be the point of such a product? Intel could just do a GT4e part again to appease to apple. if this happens it makes no sense if it is a entry-midrange product. Intel could easily pull that one of. And if it is rather in the high end, AMD would cannibalize it's own Zen APUs. No.

While with this new intel EMBI tech it would probably be possible and make some sense, I still don't see it.

 

[Despoiler]

The source is still Kyle @ HardOCP. That guy has zero credibility. On top of that, this rumor is proven dumb using knowledge we already have. Intel and every other company on the planet needs to licence core graphics patents in order to produce GPUs. The only source of those patents are Nvidia and AMD. Intel had been licensing those patents from Nvidia for something like 1.5 billion over 5 years. That licensing deal is expiring. They need to renew with someone. The kernel of truth to this rumor is that it's likely AMD. There isn't going to be an AMD GPU or any GCN tech in any Intel product.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Intel *just* got to the point where their IGP is scratching at the heels of market where the sub-$100 cards have traditionally sat. Why on earth would they give up that position to pay AMD to do the same thing?

 

[GodisanAtheist]

While this news is certainly garbage, it would be nice to see AMD's APUs come closer to their theoretical throughput with the help of some architecture tricks Intel (and AMD themselves in the consoles) used to bypass the memory bandwidth chokepoint their APUs run into (L3 Caching, L3 Caching everywhere). Maybe HBM will fill this roll sooner rather than later.

AMD looks like its lining up all the right tech, it just needs to get past its arch nemesis: competent execution.

 

[jpiniero]

There isn't going to be an AMD GPU or any GCN tech in any Intel product.

Even if those RTG GPUs are fabbed at Intel factories?

 

[SlickR12345]

Intel needs the licence, AMD needs the money so it could happen, especially since Intel's licence with Nvidia is ending.

 

[BFG10K]

I doubt this will happen considering that Intel has enough resources to vastly improve their iGPU tech and drivers to match or even exceed AMD's own iGPU.

You need more than just resources. Intel lost billions on Larrabee and they continue to lose billions trying to get into mobile space.

Non-Iris Intel GPUs are unusable for any kind of non-trivial gaming and are far slower than AMD’s iGPUs. The only reason Intel “wins” that market is because they’re bundled with processors that have a near-monopoly in x86 space.

As for Iris, there’s no market for it. It’s too expensive to go into low-end processors targeting a budget gamer, and you’d have to be moron to buy a $300 CPU just to game on it.

The rumor’s probably untrue, but if Intel could bundle AMD iGPUs on their low end CPUs to suit a budget gamer while being cheaper than Iris and faster, that makes a bit of sense.

 

[whm1974]

You need more than just resources. Intel lost billions on Larrabee and they continue to lose billions trying to get into mobile space.

Non-Iris Intel GPUs are unusable for any kind of non-trivial gaming and are far slower than AMD’s iGPUs. The only reason Intel “wins” that market is because they’re bundled with processors that have a near-monopoly in x86 space.

As for Iris, there’s no market for it. It’s too expensive to go into low-end processors targeting a budget gamer, and you’d have to be moron to buy a $300 CPU just to game on it.

The rumor’s probably untrue, but if Intel could bundle AMD iGPUs on their low end CPUs to suit a budget gamer while being cheaper than Iris and faster, that makes a bit of sense.

Yeah, but I think Intel just figures that anyone who wants or needs graphics performance will simply buy a video card, well on the desktop anyway. Stuff like Iris is only makes sense for notebooks and Mini-PCs.

 

[lopri]

I think people are missing a blatantly obvious reason why this could be true but not be some crazy shakeup of the market: Apple.

I think this is a custom setup for Macbook Pros. I don't see Apple switching to Zen in their laptops soon. Zen seems to be competitive on desktop (by design, it seems tailored for that versus how Intel has been tailoring their designs towards mobile), but that's quite different from laptops, and there's a lot of lower level software work that companies have done to improve laptops power efficiency because they could focus on Intel's chips. That will take time to develop for AMD so I think we'll see Intel maintain an advantage in mobile. We know Apple is sticking with AMD's graphics, so it makes sense for them to make the Intel CPU and AMD GPU work together better. They have the money and clout to make it happen for sure. So Intel and AMD work together to appease Apple, and neither one needs to do much to accomplish it, so they're not really buddying up too much that would hurt them if they go head to head more. And Apple uses that leverage to keep AMD and Intel willing to appease them (after all, Apple could leverage Zen or even their own ARM CPU against Intel, and Nvidia GPU against AMD).

I think Apple is going to take an Intel CPU and AMD GPU and put them one one of their small boards (Apple has been shrinking the size of the their motherboards, at this point it practically is MCM or even an interposer). The memory setup makes for interesting speculation, would they go for an IRIS chip and use it as a graphics buffer (like Microsoft does on Xbox One), or might we see HBM (just in small quantities, like 1-2GB), or maybe just a large pool of DDR4 (since I don't think gaming performance is much of a focus for Apple on laptops, they might view the benefits of the shared memory space for the CPU and GPU as being the more important factor).

Yah. Maybe Apple threatened Intel and pitted Zen against Intel's CPUs. Desktop Macs have not been meaningfully updated for a while and Mac users are thirsty of new hardware. Considering Apple's influence in the industry (look at the latest Windows laptops), that will be a huge risk for Intel to take. It may have been a amenable solution to both, if begrudged, parties. Furthermore Intel never liked this edram business that is not profitable to them. With ever-increasing screen resolution, edram would have to subsequently be enlarged, and that must have been an unpalatable option for Intel.

Oh, and I have heard that the cross-licensing deal with NVIDIA is about to expire. So Intel will have to pay someone anyway. It was going to be NVIDIA, AMD, or Imagination (which appears as if it were Apple's subsidiary these days), and going with AMD should be substantially cheaper if only because they already have an ongoing legal relationship. AMD has been doing this kind of custom work forever and Intel will be relieved of GPU developments which have been perennially lagging behind.

As to AMD, as mentioned above, this is a familiar field for them. They have also an interest to fend off NVIDIA, and presence in Apple's hardware has no downside, as long as they are not losing money. They also share this boat called x86 with Intel - whether they like it or not, the truth is that AMD would be in a worse situation than Intel were x86 to falter in its fight against ARM, an ecosystem NVIDIA is heavily invested in. So against ARM, particularly NVIDIA, the two are united.