TPU: nVidia Forbids GeForce Driver Deployment in Data Centers

[BFG10K]

A good opportunity for AMD perhaps?

https://www.techpowerup.com/239994/nvidia-forbids-geforce-driver-deployment-in-data-centers

 

[Charlie22911]

I really hate how skummy nVidia is, we really need a healthier AMD and this seems like a good way to help make that happen.

 

[Shmee]

Yes pretty scummy, but can this be true of older drivers or only for new ones going further?

 

[Krteq]

Japanese site compares nvidia to a First Order from Star Wars

wirelesswire.jp - A "First Order" Rising? NVIDIA's New Policy Limits GeForce Data Center Usage: Universities and Research Centers In A Pinch

Yes pretty scummy, but can this be true of older drivers or only for new ones going further?

There is no date or version mentioned in GeForce EULA (section 2.1.3) - so it applies to all versions, previous, current and future ones... in other words, you can't deploy and use any GeForce driver at datacenters, research centers, universities etc.

 

[prtskg]

It's good for open CL ecosystem. I'm kind of happy to be honest. Hopefully AMD gets more business and we get more competition.

 

[Kenmitch]

Is it legally enforceable in the end. I'd imagine that new drivers with the updated terms of service would be while the older drivers wouldn't. Not sure if you can just sell a product and let it run wild and then decide to update the terms of service to limit the use of the product.

 

[raghu78]

It's good for open CL ecosystem. I'm kind of happy to be honest. Hopefully AMD gets more business and we get more competition.

This is why monopolies are bad in any industry. Nvidia's CUDA dominance allows them to do whatever they like in GPU HPC markets. AMD needs to improve their execution and deliver competitive alternatives based on a robust ROCm / OpenCL ecosystem.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

New industry where Datacenters sub-lease space in people's apartments and homes to put servers?

 

[Phynaz]

So what? GeForce isn't an enterprise compute card. Is anyone bitching actually running Geforce cards in a datacenter?

 

[thecoolnessrune]

So what? GeForce isn't an enterprise compute card. Is anyone bitching actually running Geforce cards in a datacenter?

Yes? Inference and training using GPUs is the CS Field's hot ticket. Of course if University Students (and schools with short budgets), hobbyists, and private developers could get by with using the compute of consumer cards over enterprise cards, that would be very appealing to them. Hell, ASUS even markets a server for that specific purpose (it has a special lid to accommodate the fact that consumer GPUs have their power connectors on the top of the card rather than the back).

You could also reasonably expect that a company would put limits on supportability, warranty, etc, but not necessarily geo-fencing GPUs from a particular area. They don't have such geo-fencing in place for things like maritime environments, volcanoes, or on my front porch.

So yeah, I can totally see why with NVIDIA's current roll, they can make this sort of policy. They own the market. But you'd have to have your head up your arse for a couple years (or be incredibly daft) to not see why there wouldn't be a huge population of card users who would be upset by this policy.

 

[DeathReborn]

I wonder if this was brought on by a company trying to get Quadro/Tesla level support for GeForce cards without paying the going rate.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Doesn't NVidia own a cloud-gaming company? Wouldn't this clause prevent another cloud-gaming company from springing up, and using consumer GeForce cards to power their servers? That's probably what this is all about.

I can't imagine that NV wants to force university students to have to buy Tesla cards, just to do their undergrad research projects.... or do they? :/

 

[kawi6rr]

This is why monopolies are bad in any industry. Nvidia's CUDA dominance allows them to do whatever they like in GPU HPC markets. AMD needs to improve their execution and deliver competitive alternatives based on a robust ROCm / OpenCL ecosystem.

This is why I don't understand why so many on this forum hate AMD so much. Having competition is better for the consumer I only wish there was another supplier to take it to both AMD and Nvidia.

 

[kawi6rr]

Doesn't NVidia own a cloud-gaming company? Wouldn't this clause prevent another cloud-gaming company from springing up, and using consumer GeForce cards to power their servers? That's probably what this is all about.

I can't imagine that NV wants to force university students to have to buy Tesla cards, just to do their undergrad research projects.... or do they? :/

I would think not but you never know.

 

[Charlie22911]

I can’t imagine they’d be able to enforce this though. How would they even know if someone is in breach of their EULA?

 

[Arachnotronic]

This is why I don't understand why so many on this forum hate AMD so much. Having competition is better for the consumer I only wish there was another supplier to take it to both AMD and Nvidia.

Have no fear...

SANTA CLARA, Calif., Nov. 8, 2017 – Intel today announced the appointment of Raja Kodurias Intel chief architect, senior vice president of the newly formed Core and Visual Computing Group, and general manager of a new initiative to drive edge computing solutions. In this position, Koduri will expand Intel’s leading position in integrated graphics for the PC market with high-end discrete graphics solutions for a broad range of computing segments.

https://newsroom.intel.com/news-releases/raja-koduri-joins-intel/

 

[Shmee]

Fear is the path to the dark side. I sense much fear in this.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Doesn't NVidia own a cloud-gaming company? Wouldn't this clause prevent another cloud-gaming company from springing up, and using consumer GeForce cards to power their servers? That's probably what this is all about.

I can't imagine that NV wants to force university students to have to buy Tesla cards, just to do their undergrad research projects.... or do they? :/

I think like you said, this is about Datacenters offering compute for cheap. Inference and training are in high demand, and renting server time, especially for grads just getting their feet wet, costs a lot less. What NVIDIA wants is these Datacenters using their suggested platform to deliver these services. Look at the Datacenter in Japan above. They're using a bunch of consumer GPUs, and then selling that compute capacity to customers. NVIDIA wants to make sure it's getting the correct cut of the pie. A GTX 1080 Ti goes for $800, a Quadro P6000 goes for $4,500, and a Tesla P40 goes for a whopping $8,000. With the standard code grads are putting together, there's almost no difference in compute performance (it's FP32). But NVIDIA wants customers making use of its FP16 throughput, which NVIDIA will be happy to remind you is massively gimped on its consumer cards.

Datacenter Service Providers will of course complain that people don't need all the FP16 or FP64 horsepower of a professional GPU, but their costs will extend massively. NVIDIA will then happily remind them of their GRID Virtual Workstation licensing, which will let them virtualize and distribute their Tesla horsepower to multiple users (for a per user fee of course).

Datacenters were trying to skirt the true costs of NVIDIA's training and inference ecosystem, and NVIDIA has fired back in a way that not only gives them way more money per chip produced, but also opens a gateway for them to license more software on an annual basis, further increasing revenue.

As others have said, NVIDIA is a machine. It has making money down to a science.

 

[BFG10K]

So what? GeForce isn't an enterprise compute card.

What's an "enterprise compute" card? And is it different to a "mining" or "machine learning" card?

I didn't realize we needed a different piece of hardware based on arbitrary description labels.

Is my mouse allowed to perform enterprise mouse clicks, or is it just for home mouse clicks?

How about my monitor? Is it allowed to display enterprise images, or just home ones?

Is anyone bitching actually running Geforce cards in a datacenter?

Did you even read the link in the OP?

 

[Guru]

Its complete bullocks, its not enforceable and doesn't have any legal standing at all. They can't order you around and tell you how to use a product which you purchased. We have a century of court rulings and common law that recognizes at least in the physical sphere that anything you purchase you own and can use it, modify it and resell it freely.

The whole "data centers" term is also subjective, what is a data center? It could be literally any computer than holds any sort of data, which is ALL computers or it could be computers for just one specific data or computers with over 5TB of data, etc... its literally just a blanket word that can mean anything and nothing.

So to me this is purely a garbage PR move to try and scare off certain consumers of using their overpriced turds like the Titan XP, Titan X, Titan Volta, etc.... for actual professional work.

 

[Genx87]

Datacenter is pretty specific. Nobody is going to consider your apartment a data center. They are targeting customers who reside within data centers selling time on their servers using a consumer grade card to run code.

I'm curious what prompted this move more than the move itself.

And honestly didn't know their consumer cards could run the same code\tools as their professional and HPC level cards. Thought that was blocked at the driver level.

 

[Rifter]

This is why I don't understand why so many on this forum hate AMD so much. Having competition is better for the consumer I only wish there was another supplier to take it to both AMD and Nvidia.

I dont think its that so many hate AMD its just alot are calling it how it is, which to the AMD fanboys is taken as hate. I dont hate AMD, right now im actually running a all AMD system, im just willing to call it how it is, Vega is a complete disaster they are selling at 1080Ti prices with less than 1080 performance at over a year later, it is what it is a disaster. And AMD shows absolutely no signs of being able to take on Nvidia any time soon, maybe in 2019-2020 they will mount a comeback with whatever follows Navi. But for now for gamers Nvidia is the only option at a reasonable price.

Sure Nvidia could stumble with Volta and give AMD a chance at a comeback with Navi, but the odds are against that, Nvidia has been executing launches like a well oiled machine while the Vega launch went like CIG executing the Star citizen launch.

To the topic of the OP this comes as no surprise, Nvida has proven in the past to be shady and loves to lock you down as much as possible. I think VL may be right and this is to force datacenters into the pro cards only when offering cloud compute services.

 

[Headfoot]

Its complete bullocks, its not enforceable and doesn't have any legal standing at all. They can't order you around and tell you how to use a product which you purchased. We have a century of court rulings and common law that recognizes at least in the physical sphere that anything you purchase you own and can use it, modify it and resell it freely.

The whole "data centers" term is also subjective, what is a data center? It could be literally any computer than holds any sort of data, which is ALL computers or it could be computers for just one specific data or computers with over 5TB of data, etc... its literally just a blanket word that can mean anything and nothing.

So to me this is purely a garbage PR move to try and scare off certain consumers of using their overpriced turds like the Titan XP, Titan X, Titan Volta, etc.... for actual professional work.

That's why they are limiting the drivers, and not the goods, which is 100% legal and legally effective.

 

[Phynaz]

I can't imagine that NV wants to force university students to have to buy Tesla cards, just to do their undergrad research projects.... or do they? :/

Larry, please find an example of a university student that bought a Geforce card (with their own money) that was installed in a University data center.

 

[Phynaz]

Datacenter is pretty specific. Nobody is going to consider your apartment a data center. They are targeting customers who reside within data centers selling time on their servers using a consumer grade card to run code.

100% this.