TPU Performance Summaries with newer games

[96Firebird]

How does improved amd driver performance lower kepler performance compared to maxwell?

It didn't?

Maxwell "2" is a new architecture, of course performance will increase as they figure out how to best optimize it.

 

[Gikaseixas]

Nvidia is focusing on Maxwell because this is their future weapon. Kepler support will not stop anytime soon, they usually support their older stuff pretty well.
AMD is really pushing to close the gap to Maxwell in absolute performance. And this is what pushes tech advances IMO. GPU's seem to be evolving at a faster pace than CPU's.

 

[SirPauly]

It didn't?

Maxwell "2" is a new architecture, of course performance will increase as they figure out how to best optimize it.

Maxwell performance has indeed increased over Kepler based on Techpowerup's introduction of titles:

The 970 offered 10 percent more relative performance over the GTX 780; and 10 percent less relative performance compared to the GTX 780ti at 1600p:


http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Palit/GeForce_GTX_970_JetStream/25.html

The 970 offers 14 percent more relative performance over the GTX 780; and 5 percent less relative performance compared to the GTX 780ti at 1600p:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Colorful/iGame_GTX_970/27.html


Basically a 5 percent relative swing -- something to keep an eye on.

 

[raghu78]

imho,

It wouldn't make sense to purposely neglect Kepler considering they are still selling Kepler and supporting many gamers with Kepler hardware.

Let's purposely neglect, forced obsolescence and completely disregard --too extreme. If this was true they wouldn't of offered DSR to Kepler. nVidia would of kept DSR for only Maxwell.

Didn't you get the memo that Nvidia EOL'd the GTX 770, GTX 780, GTX 780 Ti cards.

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nv...tx-780gtx-770-and-lowers-gtx-760-pricing.html

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...vidia-geforce-gtx-980-performance-review.html

"Much like NVIDIA’s launch of the GTX 680, the GTX 980 and GTX 970 will be highly disruptive cards for the entire graphics market. The GTX 980’s price of $549 undercuts the GTX 780 Ti by a massive $150 and even manages to be just a bit more expensive than AMD’s substantially lower performing R9 290X. As a matter of fact, it is so disruptive, NVIDIA is discontinuing their GTX 780 Ti and GTX 780 without announcing any price cuts. This is likely due to the fact that there are very few of these cards left in the channel. Meanwhile, the GTX 760 will fall to the lower $219 bracket"

there are still GTX 780 Ti cards left in the channel. but Nvidia would rather that you buy a $550 GTX 980 and $ 350 GTX 970 which is just 398 sq mm than the 561 sq mm GTX 780 Ti to improve their margins. They are more bothered about themselves than their poor partners who are stuck with 780 Ti inventory.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...CE&PageSize=30

 

[SlowSpyder]

I look at those graphs and wonder wth happened to Kepler? the 680 is getting smoked by Tahiti and the 290 is beating down the Titan.

I once mentioned on these forums that a 7970 with a healthy overclock would get you close to factory GTX780 performance. Got yelled at by a few members. Next month I'll have had my 7970 for three years. Best card I've ever owned. Made me a few bucks on the side, and even today at moderate overclocked speeds it is hanging with more recent and more expensive GPU's. Glad they stuck 3GB on it, too. Waiting to see what the next round of GPU's brings before I consider upgrading, but then have to decide on a second 7970 / R9 280X or a better single GPU card.

 

[raghu78]

Maxwell performance has indeed increased over Kepler based on Techpowerup's introduction of titles:

The 970 offered 10 percent more relative performance over the GTX 780; and 10 percent less relative performance compared to the GTX 780ti at 1600p:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Palit/GeForce_GTX_970_JetStream/25.html

The 970 offers 14 percent more relative performance over the GTX 780; and 5 percent less relative performance compared to the GTX 780ti at 1600p:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Colorful/iGame_GTX_970/27.html

Basically a 5 percent relative swing -- something to keep an eye on.

This is exactly what many of us have been telling, that in many of the newer titles R9 290X beats GTX 780 Ti. Ryse, Shadow of Mordor, COD AW, Civilization Beyond Earth, Dragon Age Inquisition, Farcry 4 are all faster on R9 290X. You can see multiple reviews for these games before coming to this conclusion. AC Unity is one game which performs better on Nvidia cards consistently.

 

[RussianSensation]

It's not Maxwell's performance that increased over Kepler. If that was the case then Maxwell would be beating 290X by even greater amounts. The opposite is true -- 290X is even closer to 980 than 2 months ago and yet Maxwell is destroying 780/780Ti. Do you honestly think AMD made some miracle where 290X is beating 780Ti and 7970Ghz is enroaching on 780/Titan? Tahiti is maxed out as it's 3 years old. The drivers for Kepler are not optimized anymore because 970/980 still perform well.

Saying that Maxwell is NV's new architecture and therefore it should be the focus is backwards. There are soooo many Kepler owners and so few 970/980 owners. If anything NV should be focused on Kepler for another 12 months at least.

 

[3DVagabond]

+ 2

It's good that AMD is trying harder. They may have rolled over and shown their underbelly to Intel, but they don't look like they have any intention of doing so with Nvidia....which is for the betterment of us all.

I wish their CPU department would show the same initiative..

I've seen this comparison a number of times in the last few days. Way more than I typically do. You can't really compare AMD vs Intel and AMD vs nVidia. nVidia is no Intel!

AMD and nVidia go back and forth and trade blows and insults. Intel's the 400lb gorilla in the corner of the room that occasionally AMD and/or nVidia manages to annoy slightly.

 

[xthetenth]

I'd contend that has more to do with the fact that AMD is no AMD when it comes to CPUs and GPUs.

 

[SirPauly]

Didn't you get the memo that Nvidia EOL'd the GTX 770, GTX 780, GTX 780 Ti cards.

Sure, but they're still selling Kepler derivatives like the GTX 760, which is not EOL at this time

 

[Erenhardt]

Sure, but they're still selling Kepler derivatives like the GTX 760, which is not EOL at this time

True, but it was selling regardless of its already weak perf/$

 

[nine9s]

This is exactly what many of us have been telling, that in many of the newer titles R9 290X beats GTX 780 Ti. Ryse, Shadow of Mordor, COD AW, Civilization Beyond Earth, Dragon Age Inquisition, Farcry 4 are all faster on R9 290X.

Perhaps the newer games/and drivers for them are not optimized yet, and the brute force of the 290X gives it a relative edge. I do not know - just throwing this out as a possible variable.

 

[netxzero64]

at the end of the day, we consumers get to pick whatever we want, if you got the money then go for the best that you think will suit your hunger for performance. both companies offer good gpus, its just a matter of preference and how thick your wallet is.

 

[.vodka]

Or, perhaps we're just seeing the effect of having GCN on both the the XB1/PS4 in these latest games when run on the PC. In the consoles you have a weak CPU aided by a strong compute GPU to make up for some of its deficiencies...

GCN is a compute monster in comparison to Kepler as Anand's reviews have shown over the years, that could be one of the reasons behind its lackluster showing in these games. Maxwell on the other hand isn't as weak on that regard and could explain what's going on lately, in addition to being the target of current efforts by nV's driver team.

Unity being the exception, I think the gap between these two will just get bigger and bigger. Have you seen what the Catalyst Omega driver update brings to the table on AMD's side? It's an exciting end of year.

 

[Enigmoid]

Or, perhaps we're just seeing the effect of having GCN on both the the XB1/PS4 in these latest games when run on the PC. In the consoles you have a weak CPU aided by a strong compute GPU to make up for some of its deficiencies...

GCN is a compute monster in comparison to Kepler as Anand's reviews have shown over the years, that could be one of the reasons behind its lackluster showing in these games. Maxwell on the other hand isn't as weak on that regard and could explain what's going on lately, in addition to being the target of current efforts by nV's driver team.

Unity being the exception, I think the gap between these two will just get bigger and bigger. Have you seen what the Catalyst Omega driver update brings to the table on AMD's side? It's an exciting end of year.

I think this is more the point. Next gen game engines are being designed for GCN and likely are more BW and compute heavy.

 

[AdamK47]

Or, perhaps we're just seeing the effect of having GCN on both the the XB1/PS4 in these latest games when run on the PC. In the consoles you have a weak CPU aided by a strong compute GPU to make up for some of its deficiencies...

GCN is a compute monster in comparison to Kepler as Anand's reviews have shown over the years, that could be one of the reasons behind its lackluster showing in these games. Maxwell on the other hand isn't as weak on that regard and could explain what's going on lately, in addition to being the target of current efforts by nV's driver team.

Unity being the exception, I think the gap between these two will just get bigger and bigger. Have you seen what the Catalyst Omega driver update brings to the table on AMD's side? It's an exciting end of year.

I see you are new here. You shouldn't be posting logical comments like this. You have to pick a side. Either AMD or Nvidia. You are supposed read into data and twist it to conform to a pro-AMD or pro-Nvidia opinion. There are already a few good examples of that in this thread. That's how the game is played here.

 

[.vodka]

Oh, I know. Long time reader here, felt it was time to start participating but I'll do it my way, thank you.

---------------------------------------

What is more interesting is that not only GCN is distancing itself from Kepler but is also closing in on Maxwell as shown some posts back, at high resolutions. If the latter continues (and certainly will with how >1080p displays are being pushed), it'll be fun to see the 980 drop its price like a sinking stone in the future and watch the outrage among the owners. Then 290/x will get cheaper and everyone wins.

At least we now have what could be the beginning of a "driver war", since I don't think NV will stand still to AMD's omega driver release. That'll hold us all over until 2015, Big Maxwell (GM200/210? can't remember which one is it exactly right now) and 390x can't get here soon enough.

 

[Rezist]

I'm just happy with how well my 7950 is holding up, for how old it is and how little I paid due to the dipping price prior to the mining craze I'm very happy with my investment. The 970 almost made me upgrade, had nVidia priced competitively in Canada I woulda got one.

 

[Carfax83]

GCN is a compute monster in comparison to Kepler as Anand's reviews have shown over the years, that could be one of the reasons behind its lackluster showing in these games. Maxwell on the other hand isn't as weak on that regard and could explain what's going on lately, in addition to being the target of current efforts by nV's driver team.

I don't think compute is a heavy factor in this. The Titan is strong in compute, yet it's still lagging.

It's just drivers. Nvidia is understandably focusing their efforts on improving Maxwell's performance, but that doesn't mean they've neglected Kepler. One driver update could easily reverse this trend.

 

[notty22]

I see you are new here. You shouldn't be posting logical comments like this. You have to pick a side. Either AMD or Nvidia. You are supposed read into data and twist it to conform to a pro-AMD or pro-Nvidia opinion. There are already a few good examples of that in this thread. That's how the game is played here.

I'm interpreting the same things. It's sad. It was almost less annoying to read about the get rich mining kiddies that would upgrade hardware for free FOREVER.:thumbsdown:

 

[Silverforce11]

I'm interpreting the same things. It's sad. It was almost less annoying to read about the get rich mining kiddies that would upgrade hardware for free FOREVER.:thumbsdown:

It's a well known fact for the past years, Radeons could have printed money via Bit/Alt-coins. While no longer the case or a factor in purchasing decisions, it doesn't rule out what is actual history.

I thought the non biased post you guys are talking about from .vodka would have made it clear that such dissing (kiddies?) due to brand loyalty is not just lame, it's uncalled for.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Nvidia is understandably focusing their efforts on improving Maxwell's performance...

Why is this understandable? A lot of people are still running Kepler hardware, you'd think Nvidia would have no trouble focusing on Kepler and Maxwell at the same time given their resources.

 

[RussianSensation]

Or, perhaps we're just seeing the effect of having GCN on both the the XB1/PS4 in these latest games when run on the PC. In the consoles you have a weak CPU aided by a strong compute GPU to make up for some of its deficiencies...

GCN is a compute monster in comparison to Kepler as Anand's reviews have shown over the years, that could be one of the reasons behind its lackluster showing in these games. Maxwell on the other hand isn't as weak on that regard and could explain what's going on lately, in addition to being the target of current efforts by nV's driver team.

Unity being the exception, I think the gap between these two will just get bigger and bigger. Have you seen what the Catalyst Omega driver update brings to the table on AMD's side? It's an exciting end of year.

I am not sure that I buy the compute argument for these latest games. The compute heavy titles such as Dirt Showdown, Sleeping Dogs, Sniper Elite or Hitman Absolution, where AMD specifically targeted and marketed heavy use of compute shaders for certain graphical effects and AA modes, do not show 780Ti getting blown away by a 290X and if anything it's keeping up with a stock 980 and is beating 290X.

There is little mention of heavy DirectCompute used in FC4 or Shadow or Mordor or The Crew, instead a lot of focus is on HBAO+, which doesn't really perform tangibly faster on 290 series and tessellation used for GodRays, and we know Kepler is better than Tahiti and Hawaii at tessellation. It's understandable why in a game like Civ:BE or DAI AMD should have a slight advantage since those are GE titles and AMD had close relationship with the developer throughout the development process. How does one explain the poor performance of Kepler in FC4 and the Crew, GW titles?

It was almost less annoying to read about the get rich mining kiddies that would upgrade hardware for free FOREVER.:thumbsdown:

Mining kiddies? A single 1 GPU upgrade path from HD4890->6950->7970 produced $5000-10000 USD over the 5-year period where mining was very profitable. That means 3 GPUs following the same upgrade path in 1 tower would have made $15,000-30,000 in profits after all electricity costs.

The gamers on our forum who mined didn't intend to quit their day jobs and retire in the Bahamas from mining but those who did it right made 5 figures with just dual 7970s. If you can tell me of how I can buy $1000-1500 of GPUs today and have them make me $15,000-30,000 in the next 5 years simply running in my rig doing nothing but crunching and me opening an app and pressing Start, I am all ears.

Look you missed out on thousands of dollars and $0 GPU upgrades by buying only NV cards for the last 5 years but there is no need to downplay that mining has been the greatest videocard perk of all time. The beauty of it was that you could convert bitcoins into USD and there was no requirement to spend that $ on hardware upgrades, but it's an option. So yes, if chosen to spend the bitcoin profits that way, it means free GPU hardware for life (as well as free HD4000-5000-6000-7000-etc. upgrades during the mining craze). You can choose to ignore it or not believe it, but those are the facts.

 

[el etro]

And this is what pushes tech advances IMO. GPU's seem to be evolving at a faster pace than CPU's.

That's why we need as soon as we can techs like HBM and ARM processors in the GPU die, for eliminating the CPU need/overhead.

 

[Headfoot]

I once mentioned on these forums that a 7970 with a healthy overclock would get you close to factory GTX780 performance. Got yelled at by a few members. Next month I'll have had my 7970 for three years. Best card I've ever owned. Made me a few bucks on the side, and even today at moderate overclocked speeds it is hanging with more recent and more expensive GPU's. Glad they stuck 3GB on it, too. Waiting to see what the next round of GPU's brings before I consider upgrading, but then have to decide on a second 7970 / R9 280X or a better single GPU card.

Anybody who bought a 7970 at launch has certainly gotten their money's worth out of them. Same with 5850/5870 buyers. Really great value @1080p. Especially if you mined at all at the right time.