Trade in value of SUVs is crashing

[zinfamous]

You know, we can fix all of this by doing away with NASCAR. I mean, How much fuel do those yahoos waste driving around in circles all day?

agreed?

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

You want numbers?

Going from a vehicle that gets 15mpg to one that gets 30mpg would save you $2000 a year if you're driving 15,000 miles a year. You may scoff at $2000 but to many people, that's a fair chunk of change. If you go to a car that gets 40mpg the difference grows to $2500 a year savings.

Another thing you fail to point out is that wage increases aren't keeping pace with inflation and the price of necessities like food have been going up steadily for the past couple years so this puts people who were just getting by into serious financial trouble. Text

BTW-I am calm. I think you could probably use a stress pill though.

Oh please, pulling out 30 & 40mpg numbers when so few people get those. Use real numbers like 15-25mpg. How many of us drive a 30mpg+ car? ~ $1100/year is money you can use somewhere else, yes, but people are making this out to be some world crisis by the looks of it. All I'm saying is calm down and do the math, then decide if you're gonna be in the shitt3r-type like JulesMaximus likes to laugh at. He's the one who started this thread with a point to make and it should surprise nobody that people will react to financial situations even in the slightest. Ignorantly, he's thinking it's justified in all cases too - how convenient. Do the math first... all people see are increasing numbers at the gas station and think their world is over and try to turn in their car (or like in Jules' case spend $7k on something else).

BTW, those Americans who were "just getting by" live in America where many carry a balance on their credit cards. Irresponsible financial penalties every month and they're crying to the world about something they have little control over?

Oh right, like I said, EVERYONE likes to complain. Not just SUV owners, Jules.

 

[SlickSnake]

Death of the SUV? I doubt it. No more so than the death of the van. That's why they have minivans and miniSUVs like the Ford Escape. Ever try to cram a family of 6 or more into a subcompact car? Now, the death of the gigantic dinosaur SUVs like the Expeditions and the Excursion, yea, maybe. But for about the same scratch as a loaded Expedition you can get a Lincoln Navigator, and which would you rather have if you could afford it?

My 6 banger 2wd Escape gets good gas mileage, and they come in 4 banger flavors, too. :thumbsup:

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: PricklyPete

Originally posted by: sao123

not for me... I drive my SUV till it falls apart... 200k Miles 12 years... when I trade it in, theres nothing left.
Believe me, I get my full value that i paid for.

Did you get full value out of that $41,176 worth of gas you spent over that $200K

(200,000 miles/ 17 mpg) * $3.50 = $41,176

If you had a 30mpg car...lets see what that would cost you...

(200,000 miles / 30 mpg) * $3.50 = $23,333

Obviously I'm guessing the fuel economy of your SUV...but I know few people who rarely get more than that on their regular runs (except for that magic trip they took when they got 25mpg on some fill up). I'm also guessing that prices average $3.50 over the course of your 200K miles. Lets assume prices are going to go up as much as they say...and lets give an average of $4.50

(200,000 miles/ 17 mpg) * $4.50 = $52,941

If you had a 30 mpg car...

(200,000 miles / 30 mpg) * $3.50 = $30,000

wow...a potential of saving nearly $23k over those 200k miles. Could you imagine if you were paying $8+ a gallon here in the UK....

A 30 mpg car is more than attainable with reasonable utility and capability.

First of all, you cant even compare with good gas prices?
a SUV on $4.50 a gallon vs a compact car on $3.50 a gallon, give me a break.


and secondly your wrong anyways... If i drove your 30mpg compact car, I'd need either to pay 3 other drivers, buy 2 more vehicles and maintain a fleet... or make 3 times as many trips.

soo...

200,000 miles / 17mpg * 3.50 a gallon = $41,176
or
600,000 miles / 30mpg * 3.50 a gallon = $70,000

Afterall, I do haul a full load nearly everywhere i drive. Not passengers mind you, but tools, & cargo. Believe me... im not some soccor mom who nedlessly drives an SUV... I use every square inch of it.
And I do get much better than 17mpg, I get closer to 21, as most of my driving is freeway.

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: PricklyPete

Originally posted by: sao123

not for me... I drive my SUV till it falls apart... 200k Miles 12 years... when I trade it in, theres nothing left.
Believe me, I get my full value that i paid for.

Did you get full value out of that $41,176 worth of gas you spent over that $200K

(200,000 miles/ 17 mpg) * $3.50 = $41,176

If you had a 30mpg car...lets see what that would cost you...

(200,000 miles / 30 mpg) * $3.50 = $23,333

Obviously I'm guessing the fuel economy of your SUV...but I know few people who rarely get more than that on their regular runs (except for that magic trip they took when they got 25mpg on some fill up). I'm also guessing that prices average $3.50 over the course of your 200K miles. Lets assume prices are going to go up as much as they say...and lets give an average of $4.50

(200,000 miles/ 17 mpg) * $4.50 = $52,941

If you had a 30 mpg car...

(200,000 miles / 30 mpg) * $3.50 = $30,000

wow...a potential of saving nearly $23k over those 200k miles. Could you imagine if you were paying $8+ a gallon here in the UK....

A 30 mpg car is more than attainable with reasonable utility and capability.

First of all, you cant even compare with good gas prices?
a SUV on $4.50 a gallon vs a compact car on $3.50 a gallon, give me a break.


and secondly your wrong anyways... If i drove your 30mpg compact car, I'd need either to pay 3 other drivers, buy 2 more vehicles and maintain a fleet... or make 3 times as many trips.

soo...

200,000 miles / 17mpg * 3.50 a gallon = $41,176
or
600,000 miles / 30mpg * 3.50 a gallon = $70,000

Afterall, I do haul a full load nearly everywhere i drive. Not passengers mind you, but tools, & cargo. Believe me... im not some soccor mom who nedlessly drives an SUV... I use every square inch of it.
And I do get much better than 17mpg, I get closer to 21, as most of my driving is freeway.

A bit touchy? My math was correct...my typing...not. The result of $30,000 was with $4.50 a gallon price...I just didn't type that. Calm down.

To argue that an SUV is necessary to haul kit is also a bit overboard. There are many vans or wagons that do an admirable job and get considerably more gas mileage (although physics has its limits obviously). My statements were purely there to point out how much more money you are spending driving a 17mpg SUV vs. a 30mpg car. Sure it wouldn't work for you since you need a vehicle that can haul a substantial amount of kit, but you are a rare exception and those calculations are very real for MOST people who drive SUVs.

Whether they decide to spend their money on gas...or spend their money doing other things is totally up to them...I could really care less.

So gas on!

 

[desy]

I almost bought a car on the wkend to replace my mini-van and went to fuel economy.gov to crank out the numbers.
My Versa vs my Van vs a Malibu Max the Versa is cheaper by 1400 a yr cheaper to run than the van the Mailbu would be 700 at todays cost.
If the price were to rise 50% it would be 1000 difference between each with the Versa 2000 cheaper than the Van

If everything were to rise because fuel is a cost in everything , you would take a much bigger chunk of my dispoable income.
Not a problem yet but I guess thats the question, when does it erode enough that I'll have to make hard choices?

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: mugs

I would say that if you recently bought an SUV... you're pretty.

Fixed it for you.

Fixed better!

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
doubt it's dead, but i always get a little kick out of hearing them preparing it's coffin. but i've lived in TX where you are nobody unless you drive something big enough to play baseball in.

I live west of DFW and that's the mentality here. When I bought my car, my redneck coworkers laughed because I didn't buy a huge duallie like theirs.

 

[Eeezee]

Gas wasn't cheap and was still on the rise a year ago, so why are these SUVs less than a year old? People are so stupid

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Know what? Both sides need to just leave me and everyone else the fsck alone and mind their own business.

you don't seem to realize just how much everything is interconnected.

Okay, then I never want to see you bash/oppose/ridicule another fundie for trying to control your sex life, or your freedom of speech/expression, or your ability to view objectionable materials.

They have the SAME DAMN JUSTIFICATION you just gave.

who said i ever wanted to bash/oppose/ridicule a fundie?

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Know what? Both sides need to just leave me and everyone else the fsck alone and mind their own business.

you don't seem to realize just how much everything is interconnected.

Okay, then I never want to see you bash/oppose/ridicule another fundie for trying to control your sex life, or your freedom of speech/expression, or your ability to view objectionable materials.

They have the SAME DAMN JUSTIFICATION you just gave.

who said i ever wanted to bash/oppose/ridicule a fundie?

I do, bash, oppose, and ridicule fundies, because they are opposed to core western values like separation fo church and state, and science itself. Thinking that other people should use less resources is not an affront to any pillars of society, and what's more, other people wasting resources affects WORLD reserves, and fossil fuel affects everyone's climate. Amused doesn't GET that climate change impacts everyone, especially the poorest people in the world. Gay marriage doesn't affect anybody but gays.

If there is any moral equivalency, it's with embryonic stem cell research. If someone believes that creating an individual human in order to destroy it for research is equivalent to murder, which is wrong by every measure, he has every right to oppose it politically.


Amused, you know oil companies get government subsidies, right? And you know they drill federal land, right? Any strawman argument about "freedom" and "controlling other people" is moot, when we all give tax money and public owned resources to the oil industry to indirect subsidize your fuel use-- even with today's high prices you aren't paying the real cost.


This is all irrelevant anyway. High prices due to increased demand = declining sales of inefficient vehicles. What else do you want/expect, and what does that have to do with freedom?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Amused, you know oil companies get government subsidies, right? And you know they drill federal land, right? Any strawman argument about "freedom" and "controlling other people" is moot, when we all give tax money and public owned resources to the oil industry to indirect subsidize your fuel use-- even with today's high prices you aren't paying the real cost.

the oil companies pay royalties to drill for oil/gas on federal lands. we're not 'giving' public owned resources to the oil companies, they are paying for them. which also happens to be the reason why lumping royalties in with taxes and claiming the government makes more money than the oil companies is intellectually dishonest.

and amused would point out that he's against subsidies anyway.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton


Amused, you know oil companies get government subsidies, right? And you know they drill federal land, right? Any strawman argument about "freedom" and "controlling other people" is moot, when we all give tax money and public owned resources to the oil industry to indirect subsidize your fuel use-- even with today's high prices you aren't paying the real cost.


This is all irrelevant anyway. High prices due to increased demand = declining sales of inefficient vehicles. What else do you want/expect, and what does that have to do with freedom?

Good GAWD you missed the point completely. You are blinded by your own hypocrisy.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Amused, you know oil companies get government subsidies, right? And you know they drill federal land, right? Any strawman argument about "freedom" and "controlling other people" is moot, when we all give tax money and public owned resources to the oil industry to indirect subsidize your fuel use-- even with today's high prices you aren't paying the real cost.

the oil companies pay royalties to drill for oil/gas on federal lands. we're not 'giving' public owned resources to the oil companies, they are paying for them. which also happens to be the reason why lumping royalties in with taxes and claiming the government makes more money than the oil companies is intellectually dishonest.

and amused would point out that he's against subsidies anyway.

We're not giving them public owned resources for free, but for pretty cheap. If we didn't let them drill, supply of oil would be lower and presumably prices would be higher, so we've been subsidizing low prices for a long time. I know he's against subsidies, which is why I brought htem up.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
We're not giving them public owned resources for free, but for pretty cheap. If we didn't let them drill, supply of oil would be lower and presumably prices would be higher, so we've been subsidizing low prices for a long time. I know he's against subsidies, which is why I brought htem up.

they're now almost at 1/5 which is a little better than industry average. prior to that it'd been at 1/8, the old industry standard, and then 1/6, which is about current average, iirc. could they get more? probably. but it isn't out of line with regular market rates.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Throckmorton


Amused, you know oil companies get government subsidies, right? And you know they drill federal land, right? Any strawman argument about "freedom" and "controlling other people" is moot, when we all give tax money and public owned resources to the oil industry to indirect subsidize your fuel use-- even with today's high prices you aren't paying the real cost.


This is all irrelevant anyway. High prices due to increased demand = declining sales of inefficient vehicles. What else do you want/expect, and what does that have to do with freedom?

Good GAWD you missed the point completely. You are blinded by your own hypocrisy.

Arguing with you isn't worthwhile when all you do is fall back on "you don't understand". Your argument boils down to "mind your own business and don't tell me what to do", and you follow that with one non sequiter after another. Why don't you go ahead and explain what exactly you mean? I've never seen anyone so upset over people judging one another. Is your dream for everyone to join hands and sing cumbaya while having gay sex in a Ford Excursion with seats made of fetus skin?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Throckmorton


Amused, you know oil companies get government subsidies, right? And you know they drill federal land, right? Any strawman argument about "freedom" and "controlling other people" is moot, when we all give tax money and public owned resources to the oil industry to indirect subsidize your fuel use-- even with today's high prices you aren't paying the real cost.


This is all irrelevant anyway. High prices due to increased demand = declining sales of inefficient vehicles. What else do you want/expect, and what does that have to do with freedom?

Good GAWD you missed the point completely. You are blinded by your own hypocrisy.

Arguing with you isn't worthwhile when all you do is fall back on "you don't understand". Your argument boils down to "mind your own business and don't tell me what to do", and you follow that with one non sequiter after another. Why don't you go ahead and explain what exactly you mean? I've never seen anyone so upset over people judging one another. Is your dream for everyone to join hands and sing cumbaya while having gay sex in a Ford Excursion with seats made of fetus skin?

Again, you cannot see past your own hypocrisy. You are just as fascist as the right wingers, only you have your own justification for moralizing and wishing to control the actions of others.

You poo-poo at their justifications while using the same damn justifications for your own busybody moralizing.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: amdskip
Good, its about time people start doing what I think they should do.

Fixed

Oh! The irony!

No irony. There is a constant theme in my posts and it's amazing to me that you've completely missed it.

Actually, it's kind of hard to miss your consistent smugness or your constant support for the overdog, let alone your primitive and inexcusably naieve "rugged individualism" stance.

Like I said, you missed it completely.

Funny how people want freedom and special rights for themselves, but if someone has something they think they don't, or is doing something they don't agree with they want to rob that person of their freedom.

When I have advocated taking away the rights and/or freedoms of ANYONE, rich or poor?

And individualism is naive and primitive? Wow... It's the very basis for the founding of this country.

I'm glad you think it's enlightened to want to be a mindless drone. But I'd rather be me and free, thank you.

Non sequiter. Someone points out that people will be more logical in their purchases, and you turn it into a freedom issue. Isn't everyone still free to make bad choices?

Why don't you stop crying about people judging you, your friends, or whomever? We get the point- you value freedom, but you hate when somebody's use of his freedom is critized.

Why is it illogical for me to buy an SUV or truck? I can afford to put gas in it.
He hates, and I hate when you use your "freedom" to try to undermine mine.

People like you say, I should drive SUV's because you can't afford to, thus I shouldn't be allowed to either. You are also the people that say that I shouldn't have guns because you think they are scary, therefore no one should have them so you aren't scared.

Don't tell us how to live our life and what to buy and we'll stop calling you communists.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Throckmorton


Amused, you know oil companies get government subsidies, right? And you know they drill federal land, right? Any strawman argument about "freedom" and "controlling other people" is moot, when we all give tax money and public owned resources to the oil industry to indirect subsidize your fuel use-- even with today's high prices you aren't paying the real cost.


This is all irrelevant anyway. High prices due to increased demand = declining sales of inefficient vehicles. What else do you want/expect, and what does that have to do with freedom?

Good GAWD you missed the point completely. You are blinded by your own hypocrisy.

Arguing with you isn't worthwhile when all you do is fall back on "you don't understand". Your argument boils down to "mind your own business and don't tell me what to do", and you follow that with one non sequiter after another. Why don't you go ahead and explain what exactly you mean? I've never seen anyone so upset over people judging one another. Is your dream for everyone to join hands and sing cumbaya while having gay sex in a Ford Excursion with seats made of fetus skin?

Again, you cannot see past your own hypocrisy. You are just as fascist as the right wingers, only you have your own justification for moralizing and wishing to control the actions of others.

You poo-poo at their justifications while using the same damn justifications for your own busybody moralizing.

Where did you read that I want to control the actions of others? There's a difference between wanting people to act properly, and wanting to control them.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Throckmorton


Amused, you know oil companies get government subsidies, right? And you know they drill federal land, right? Any strawman argument about "freedom" and "controlling other people" is moot, when we all give tax money and public owned resources to the oil industry to indirect subsidize your fuel use-- even with today's high prices you aren't paying the real cost.


This is all irrelevant anyway. High prices due to increased demand = declining sales of inefficient vehicles. What else do you want/expect, and what does that have to do with freedom?

Good GAWD you missed the point completely. You are blinded by your own hypocrisy.

Arguing with you isn't worthwhile when all you do is fall back on "you don't understand". Your argument boils down to "mind your own business and don't tell me what to do", and you follow that with one non sequiter after another. Why don't you go ahead and explain what exactly you mean? I've never seen anyone so upset over people judging one another. Is your dream for everyone to join hands and sing cumbaya while having gay sex in a Ford Excursion with seats made of fetus skin?

Again, you cannot see past your own hypocrisy. You are just as fascist as the right wingers, only you have your own justification for moralizing and wishing to control the actions of others.

You poo-poo at their justifications while using the same damn justifications for your own busybody moralizing.

Where did you read that I want to control the actions of others? There's a difference between wanting people to act properly, and wanting to control them.

Really? So you would never enter a thread started by a fundie telling people who, when and how they may have sex and bash them? You would never protest to someone saying media must be censored to protect the people?

They use the same justifications as you do for your busybody moralizing. And you know damn well if you could get laws passed forcing people to "act properly" (according to your own morals) you would. To deny it now is simply absurd. Not after your previous defense of personal safety laws.

Face it. You are a fundie with a different cause. You're no different. Not one fscking bit. You just have a separate set of behaviors you demand people comply with. You think you know better than others how they should "act properly" and you run around not only preaching your gospel, but supporting laws that force them to "act properly."

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: amdskip
Good, its about time people start doing what I think they should do.

Fixed

Oh! The irony!

No irony. There is a constant theme in my posts and it's amazing to me that you've completely missed it.

Actually, it's kind of hard to miss your consistent smugness or your constant support for the overdog, let alone your primitive and inexcusably naieve "rugged individualism" stance.

Like I said, you missed it completely.

Funny how people want freedom and special rights for themselves, but if someone has something they think they don't, or is doing something they don't agree with they want to rob that person of their freedom.

When I have advocated taking away the rights and/or freedoms of ANYONE, rich or poor?

And individualism is naive and primitive? Wow... It's the very basis for the founding of this country.

I'm glad you think it's enlightened to want to be a mindless drone. But I'd rather be me and free, thank you.

Non sequiter. Someone points out that people will be more logical in their purchases, and you turn it into a freedom issue. Isn't everyone still free to make bad choices?

Why don't you stop crying about people judging you, your friends, or whomever? We get the point- you value freedom, but you hate when somebody's use of his freedom is critized.

Why is it illogical for me to buy an SUV or truck? I can afford to put gas in it.
He hates, and I hate when you use your "freedom" to try to undermine mine.

People like you say, I should drive SUV's because you can't afford to, thus I shouldn't be allowed to either. You are also the people that say that I shouldn't have guns because you think they are scary, therefore no one should have them so you aren't scared.

Don't tell us how to live our life and what to buy and we'll stop calling you communists.

People being more logical means they consider the costs and benefits more carefully, and fossil fuel use, which was previously just barely an afterthought, is now foremost.

How can I possibly undermine your freedom just by expressing my opinion?

 

[vi edit]

Would you two please take it to PM or just drop it? You've been going at it in a couple different threads and the rest of us don't want to have to dig through the nested quotes that have little to do with the rest of the discussion.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: amdskip
Good, its about time people start doing what I think they should do.

Fixed

Oh! The irony!

No irony. There is a constant theme in my posts and it's amazing to me that you've completely missed it.

Actually, it's kind of hard to miss your consistent smugness or your constant support for the overdog, let alone your primitive and inexcusably naieve "rugged individualism" stance.

Like I said, you missed it completely.

Funny how people want freedom and special rights for themselves, but if someone has something they think they don't, or is doing something they don't agree with they want to rob that person of their freedom.

When I have advocated taking away the rights and/or freedoms of ANYONE, rich or poor?

And individualism is naive and primitive? Wow... It's the very basis for the founding of this country.

I'm glad you think it's enlightened to want to be a mindless drone. But I'd rather be me and free, thank you.

Non sequiter. Someone points out that people will be more logical in their purchases, and you turn it into a freedom issue. Isn't everyone still free to make bad choices?

Why don't you stop crying about people judging you, your friends, or whomever? We get the point- you value freedom, but you hate when somebody's use of his freedom is critized.

Why is it illogical for me to buy an SUV or truck? I can afford to put gas in it.
He hates, and I hate when you use your "freedom" to try to undermine mine.

People like you say, I should drive SUV's because you can't afford to, thus I shouldn't be allowed to either. You are also the people that say that I shouldn't have guns because you think they are scary, therefore no one should have them so you aren't scared.

Don't tell us how to live our life and what to buy and we'll stop calling you communists.

We're not trying to undermine your freedom. We're simply criticizing you for your choices. You criticize people who you don't agree with. Someone doesn't agree with you and you label them a communist...yeah, that's productive...and accurate. :roll:

I say you shouldn't drive an SUV because it's bad for the environment, it's wasteful for you to cruise around in it by yourself getting 12 mpg, and it is extremely shortsighted and selfish for people to worry only about themselves and not be concerned with using up the finite resources of the planet. That's my opinion.

To sum it up, yes, I'm happy that SUV sales and popularity is declining.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Originally posted by: PricklyPete

Originally posted by: KB

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Crucial
Sounds like a great time to buy one.

Agreed. I'm sick of these $100 delivery charges for a 4 mile drive to deliver landscaping stuff or furniture.

Yeah, spending an extra $200/month in gas is a far better choice.

I bet iamwiz is thinking the same thing as I am - buying it, not to commute with, but to move stuff every once in a while. So to drive 4 miles a month would be 2.00 dollars not 200.

Plus the burden of an asset depreciating at break-neck speed.

That's why they are looking at used probably
Buy it after the initial insane deflation .... then keep it for 10-20 years of light usage until it finally dies ...

 

[irishScott]

Getting an SUV is fine if you have a valid use for it. Problem is it's become a status symbol (something I will never understand). Downward social comparisons ftl.