Trade in value of SUVs is crashing

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Throckmorton


Amused, you know oil companies get government subsidies, right? And you know they drill federal land, right? Any strawman argument about "freedom" and "controlling other people" is moot, when we all give tax money and public owned resources to the oil industry to indirect subsidize your fuel use-- even with today's high prices you aren't paying the real cost.


This is all irrelevant anyway. High prices due to increased demand = declining sales of inefficient vehicles. What else do you want/expect, and what does that have to do with freedom?

Good GAWD you missed the point completely. You are blinded by your own hypocrisy.

Arguing with you isn't worthwhile when all you do is fall back on "you don't understand". Your argument boils down to "mind your own business and don't tell me what to do", and you follow that with one non sequiter after another. Why don't you go ahead and explain what exactly you mean? I've never seen anyone so upset over people judging one another. Is your dream for everyone to join hands and sing cumbaya while having gay sex in a Ford Excursion with seats made of fetus skin?

Again, you cannot see past your own hypocrisy. You are just as fascist as the right wingers, only you have your own justification for moralizing and wishing to control the actions of others.

You poo-poo at their justifications while using the same damn justifications for your own busybody moralizing.

Where did you read that I want to control the actions of others? There's a difference between wanting people to act properly, and wanting to control them.

Really? So you would never enter a thread started by a fundie telling people who, when and how they may have sex and bash them? You would never protest to someone saying media must be censored to protect the people?

They use the same justifications as you do for your busybody moralizing. And you know damn well if you could get laws passed forcing people to "act properly" (according to your own morals) you would. To deny it now is simply absurd. Not after your previous defense of personal safety laws.

Face it. You are a fundie with a different cause. You're no different. Not one fscking bit. You just have a separate set of behaviors you demand people comply with. You think you know better than others how they should "act properly" and you run around not only preaching your gospel, but supporting laws that force them to "act properly."

Of course I would enter such a thread and argue. But if gay sex became prohibitively expensive, I wouldn't blame them and say "you wanted this all along". I'd either pay more for the gay sex or stop having it, if I were gay.

Seat belt laws and the like affect people other than the driver, like other motorists, ER doctors, etc... And are regulated by the same bodies that construct the roads. You're still free to not wear a seatbelt and drive a non street-legal vehicle on your own private roads.

 

[mikej007]

Originally posted by: Person A[/b]

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[compman25]

That's it, I'm getting a Canyonero now.

 

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: vi edit
Would you two please take it to PM or just drop it? You've been going at it in a couple different threads and the rest of us don't want to have to dig through the nested quotes that have little to do with the rest of the discussion.

Hey, speak for yourself. I enjoy reading their argument, and if they took it to PMs, there goes my entertainment!

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
People being more logical means they consider the costs and benefits more carefully, and fossil fuel use, which was previously just barely an afterthought, is now foremost.

How can I possibly undermine your freedom just by expressing my opinion?

he's undermining your freedom to express his opinion by expressing his opinion that you're undermining others freedom

Originally posted by: Amused
You just have a separate set of behaviors you demand people comply with.

the only set of behavior i want anyone to comply with is personal responsibility.

 

[PokerGuy]

Originally posted by: amdskip
Good, its about time people start making some logical decisions.

What a stupid thing to say. Sure, it might be illogical to you, but I made a perfectly logical decision to buy a nice big SUV. I'd like to see you fit in all the stuff you need to travel with 3 or 4 small children and a dog into whatever smaller vehicle you have. Good luck with that.

So no, it's not an illogical decision, it's perfecly logical, but it also means people who bought those SUV's now have to deal with the consequences of owning a gas guzzler. That's just part of the total equation.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy

Originally posted by: amdskip
Good, its about time people start making some logical decisions.

What a stupid thing to say. Sure, it might be illogical to you, but I made a perfectly logical decision to buy a nice big SUV. I'd like to see you fit in all the stuff you need to travel with 3 or 4 small children and a dog into whatever smaller vehicle you have. Good luck with that.

So no, it's not an illogical decision, it's perfecly logical, but it also means people who bought those SUV's now have to deal with the consequences of owning a gas guzzler. That's just part of the total equation.

We aren't denying that there's a use for them, the issue is that people were buying them without thinking about what they would do when gas prices go up, and so it's now an issue, which is why their value is dropping.

I don't think he meant to target you specifically or someone else, it's just a general statement. On a seperate note, could a minivan not handle what you're talking about? This isn't the first time in history that people have a few kids, pets, etc. to haul around

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Crucial
Sounds like a great time to buy one.

Agreed. I'm sick of these $100 delivery charges for a 4 mile drive to deliver landscaping stuff or furniture.

Do you have U-Haul or something similar in the area?

You can get a 19.99 uhaul van anywhere...

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Captante

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: mugs

I would say that if you recently bought a full-sized SUV other then as a work-truck or a second vehicle ... you're pretty short-sighted.

Fixed it for you.

Fixed again.

DING DING DING... my parent's have owned an exploder or similar for a good part of the decade, yet the car consumes less gas then my a6. Why? Because the don't use it as a daily driver...

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Originally posted by: compman25
That's it, I'm getting a Canyonero now.

haha

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy

Originally posted by: amdskip
Good, its about time people start making some logical decisions.

What a stupid thing to say. Sure, it might be illogical to you, but I made a perfectly logical decision to buy a nice big SUV. I'd like to see you fit in all the stuff you need to travel with 3 or 4 small children and a dog into whatever smaller vehicle you have. Good luck with that.

So no, it's not an illogical decision, it's perfecly logical, but it also means people who bought those SUV's now have to deal with the consequences of owning a gas guzzler. That's just part of the total equation.

You made a logical decision, considering the costs associated with it, and like you said you have to deal with the consequences. How does what amdskip said conflict with that?

 

[StrangeRanger]

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
We aren't denying that there's a use for them, the issue is that people were buying them without thinking about what they would do when gas prices go up, and so it's now an issue, which is why their value is dropping.

I don't think he meant to target you specifically or someone else, it's just a general statement. On a seperate note, could a minivan not handle what you're talking about? This isn't the first time in history that people have a few kids, pets, etc. to haul around

When you bought your last car did you really think to yourself, "Gee, I wonder what gases prices are going to be like in 1-2 yrs?" Did you honestly expect gas prices to jump the way they have?

As for mini-vans, they pretty much get suck-ass mileage too. I've owned SUV's, mini-vans and trucks and they all suck for fuel economy.

Some folks have no choice, they need a large vehicle for work, have a large family, have to carry a wheel chair etc. Do I enjoy plopping $90 into my vehicle, hell no, but I have no choice.

Personally I think it's all fvcking bullshit. As someone mentioned, the subsidies and land grants the oil companies get are re-god-damn-diculous! The net profits the oil companies are making are insane! It's all pocket-lining and ass-licking by W and his buddies.
j

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: StrangeRanger

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
We aren't denying that there's a use for them, the issue is that people were buying them without thinking about what they would do when gas prices go up, and so it's now an issue, which is why their value is dropping.

I don't think he meant to target you specifically or someone else, it's just a general statement. On a seperate note, could a minivan not handle what you're talking about? This isn't the first time in history that people have a few kids, pets, etc. to haul around

When you bought your last car did you really think to yourself, "Gee, I wonder what gases prices are going to be like in 1-2 yrs?" Did you honestly expect gas prices to jump the way they have?

As for mini-vans, they pretty much get suck-ass mileage too. I've owned SUV's, mini-vans and trucks and they all suck for fuel economy.

Some folks have no choice, they need a large vehicle for work, have a large family, have to carry a wheel chair etc. Do I enjoy plopping $90 into my vehicle, hell no, but I have no choice.

Personally I think it's all fvcking bullshit. As someone mentioned, the subsidies and land grants the oil companies get are re-god-damn-diculous! The net profits the oil companies are making are insane! It's all pocket-lining and ass-licking by W and his buddies.
j

Which makes putting more of my money into their pockets even more distasteful.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
<---Hugs his 10 year old 20 mpg V8 turbo diesel truck.

Too bad the fuel costs 30% more then regular gasoline, giving it the same cost as the regular gas V8 trucks to fuel up.

I agree with rbV5. While there's surely a lot of people that drive full size pickups just as a people mover, its kind of amusing on AT since people on here do kind of fawn over performance sedans that barely get any better gas mileage. (I'm sorry, but "over 20" (highway I assume) isn't really anything to lord over some one driving a V8 truck that gets like 17-18 highway...especially when you're probably filling that thing up with premium fuel, further muting any difference in cost)

The fact is MOST people drive a car that they don't really need, wasting a lot of fuel. And its starting to become a more expensive luxury.

 

[potato28]

The SUV will still survive, its one of the only efficient ways of transporting like 8 people and all their gear to go skiing and boarding. Gets great gas mileage once you factor in all the extra weight that you're carrying.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: irishScott
Getting an SUV is fine if you have a valid use for it. Problem is it's become a status symbol (something I will never understand). Downward social comparisons ftl.

A status symbol is other people's perception just as much. Without what other people think about it, what do you really have? An owner with something he chose. And sometimes those owners are actually satisfied with it. It's everyone else's problem if they think more.

Social comparisons are indeed FTL.

BTW, I don't understand how SUVs are perceived status symbols when cars like Chevy Malibus can run just as much ($28k out the door in that other thread)? I mean, where the fvck did this SUV owners are rich mentality come from? It's YOUR problem if you think that.

 

[DrPizza]

What's amusing is that I've already met a few idiots who need their gas guzzlers (hauling their campers or boats on the weekend, etc.), but have spent over $10,000 on an extra vehicle just to "save money" on gas. i.e. "We'll make an extra $300 a month car payment, just to avoid paying an extra $100 a month for gas.

My wife has a Grand Caravan for her commuter. Gas price? Ouch. It's the family vehicle though. Not many other vehicles really fit our needs except for worse gas guzzlers along the SUV line.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
What's amusing is that I've already met a few idiots who need their gas guzzlers (hauling their campers or boats on the weekend, etc.), but have spent over $10,000 on an extra vehicle just to "save money" on gas. i.e. "We'll make an extra $300 a month car payment, just to avoid paying an extra $100 a month for gas.

My wife has a Grand Caravan for her commuter. Gas price? Ouch. It's the family vehicle though. Not many other vehicles really fit our needs except for worse gas guzzlers along the SUV line.

Oh man, don't get me started on recreational vehicles. I know a guy who bought a Ford F-250 and a huge trailer to haul his family around once a year for a week or two. How do you rationalize that? You could rent one of those things 50 times over for what he spent on that rig. And all it does is sit on the side of his house...looking like the eyesore that it is. There's an industry that's got to be hurting...boat sales too.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: DrPizza
What's amusing is that I've already met a few idiots who need their gas guzzlers (hauling their campers or boats on the weekend, etc.), but have spent over $10,000 on an extra vehicle just to "save money" on gas. i.e. "We'll make an extra $300 a month car payment, just to avoid paying an extra $100 a month for gas.

My wife has a Grand Caravan for her commuter. Gas price? Ouch. It's the family vehicle though. Not many other vehicles really fit our needs except for worse gas guzzlers along the SUV line.

Oh man, don't get me started on recreational vehicles. I know a guy who bought a Ford F-250 and a huge trailer to haul his family around once a year for a week or two. How do you rationalize that? You could rent one of those things 50 times over for what he spent on that rig. And all it does is sit on the side of his house...looking like the eyesore that it is. There's an industry that's got to be hurting...boat sales too.

Woohooo! I hope the prices drop on used campers from people who can't see continued owning of them with gas prices this high. I'm looking to upgrade; or rather, add a second camper to the collection. Our pop-up is perfect for the weekend get-a-ways, but I'd rather have something larger, perhaps with a better kitchen. I understand your point about people who hardly ever use them. But, there are some people who use them very frequently. The next half dozen or so properties up the road from me are summer/hunting camps. A few of them have really nice trailers and are occupied virtually every weekend from mid-April to late Fall. The land and camper/trailers was probably a great investment for those people who spend the family time with their kids away from the city. But, I know a lot of people who only have a $30k camper for the status among their camping friends.

 

[potato28]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
What's amusing is that I've already met a few idiots who need their gas guzzlers (hauling their campers or boats on the weekend, etc.), but have spent over $10,000 on an extra vehicle just to "save money" on gas. i.e. "We'll make an extra $300 a month car payment, just to avoid paying an extra $100 a month for gas.

My wife has a Grand Caravan for her commuter. Gas price? Ouch. It's the family vehicle though. Not many other vehicles really fit our needs except for worse gas guzzlers along the SUV line.

Its quite true, or some people will buy a cheap used vehicle, but after 3 months are having to dump massive amounts of money into it to get it fixed.

 

[lokiju]

Jules or anyone else for that matter, why do you take such personal issue with people that don't see eye to eye with your point of view?

Why not just not own an SUV and be content with that?

Why get all worked up about what random people drive that you've never meet IRL?

Things will fix themselves given enough time, when gas was cheaper, MPG wasn't much of a thought, now that it cost more, people will sell their SUV's and get high MPG cars if possible, when the time is right for them and their situations.

I don't give two shits what some stranger does with their money/life honestly.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: rbV5
OK, how about if you DON'T own a SUV, or large truck and yet you complain about someone elses decisions and the price of someone elses fuel..wtf does that make you then? Just curious.

well, if people didn't drive giant trucks there would be less demand for gasoline and so the price would be lower.

Well, it's easier to blame iconic SUV owners than weak dollar policies and our involvment in the Middle East. Its easier to blame SUV owners than Gov policies for fuel economy standards. Its easier to blame SUV owners than speculators in the commodities markets and its certainly easier to blame lump all SUV owners as the bad guy when its "they" instead of "Me"

 

[Old Hippie]

Originally posted by: lokiju
Jules or anyone else for that matter, why do you take such personal issue with people that don't see eye to eye with your point of view?

Why not just not own an SUV and be content with that?

Why get all worked up about what random people drive that you've never met IRL?

Things will fix themselves given enough time, when gas was cheaper, MPG wasn't much of a thought, now that it cost more, people will sell their SUV's and get high MPG cars if possible, when the time is right for them and their situations.

I don't give two shits what some stranger does with their money/life honestly.

:thumbsup:

Quite a few among us that know the best lifestyle decisions for everybody.

I've lived long enough to realize, I know very little, if anything.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: DrPizza
What's amusing is that I've already met a few idiots who need their gas guzzlers (hauling their campers or boats on the weekend, etc.), but have spent over $10,000 on an extra vehicle just to "save money" on gas. i.e. "We'll make an extra $300 a month car payment, just to avoid paying an extra $100 a month for gas.

My wife has a Grand Caravan for her commuter. Gas price? Ouch. It's the family vehicle though. Not many other vehicles really fit our needs except for worse gas guzzlers along the SUV line.

Oh man, don't get me started on recreational vehicles. I know a guy who bought a Ford F-250 and a huge trailer to haul his family around once a year for a week or two. How do you rationalize that? You could rent one of those things 50 times over for what he spent on that rig. And all it does is sit on the side of his house...looking like the eyesore that it is. There's an industry that's got to be hurting...boat sales too.

Woohooo! I hope the prices drop on used campers from people who can't see continued owning of them with gas prices this high. I'm looking to upgrade; or rather, add a second camper to the collection. Our pop-up is perfect for the weekend get-a-ways, but I'd rather have something larger, perhaps with a better kitchen. I understand your point about people who hardly ever use them. But, there are some people who use them very frequently. The next half dozen or so properties up the road from me are summer/hunting camps. A few of them have really nice trailers and are occupied virtually every weekend from mid-April to late Fall. The land and camper/trailers was probably a great investment for those people who spend the family time with their kids away from the city. But, I know a lot of people who only have a $30k camper for the status among their camping friends.

I know there are. But for every person who uses it frequently I'd bet there are 10 who use it rarely. It's like our neighbor who put a spa in his back yard. He used the thing for the first few months but then he started using it less and less and now he rarely uses it at all. I see the cover up maybe once or twice a year (it's easy to see because it sticks up over the top of our fence).

Anyway, it was merely an observation.

 

[desy]

Its why I don't worry for NA in the long haul
There is so much overcapacity in our sytem with so much resource simply as waste that food, clothing, and shelter shouldn't be a problem.
Nobody should have to die is what I'm getting at ,where the rest of the world?