Transferring Dell to other case

[Commontone]

I have a Dell Dimension 8200. I also have a nice Cooler Master Praetorian case that is not in use. Hopefully within the next 4-5 months I'll fill that case with a new computer, but in the meantime, I'm wondering how difficult (if possible) it would be to transfer the Dell motherboard to the Praetorian case. Both cases are ATX form factor.

I already have a good PSU for the Praetorian so I wouldn't need to transfer the Dell one; the motherboard is the only thing that gives me pause, the drives and such should be no problem.

I haven't poked around in the case too much but I imagine Dell makes removing the mobo a difficult thing to do. Anyone done this before?

 

[Zepper]

Welcome to the AT forums, if I hadn't cought you before.

Some Dell PCs use a proprietary pinout on the 20-pin ATX connector (same number of pins, but different arrangement). If that is not an issue with yours, then there are only two other things that may be. One is CPU cooling - Dell does weird things there at times, so you may have to invest in a standard CPU cooler. Finally, the plate on the back of the case where the ports that are on the mobo poke thru is probably non-standard, so if the plate there is not removable from the Dell and standard sized, so you could put it in the space in the C-M case, then you will have a big gap there around the ports where critters could wander in and out (IDK if you have a critter problem, but in the south I would often see cases where the critters had teken up residence... Beyond those, no problemo.

.bh.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: Zepper
Welcome to the AT forums, if I hadn't cought you before.

Some Dell PCs use a proprietary pinout on the 20-pin ATX connector (same number of pins, but different arrangement). If that is not an issue with yours, then there are only two other things that may be. One is CPU cooling - Dell does weird things there at times, so you may have to invest in a standard CPU cooler. Finally, the plate on the back of the case where the ports that are on the mobo poke thru is probably non-standard, so if the plate there is not removable from the Dell and standard sized, so you could put it in the space in the C-M case, then you will have a big gap there around the ports where critters could wander in and out (IDK if you have a critter problem, but in the south I would often see cases where the critters had teken up residence... Beyond those, no problemo.

.bh.

Even with the cooler you have to be careful, as they aren't always standard either. Our Dell's 2.533Ghz P4 is held down with a large wire that is just a larger version of the wires that hold down chipset coolers. No way to change the cooler on it. But since it's a passing sink, I'd have to aim a high speed fan at it or work a duct around it just like the Dell case does now.

 

[Commontone]

Originally posted by: Zepper
Some Dell PCs use a proprietary pinout on the 20-pin ATX connector (same number of pins, but different arrangement).

Thanks guys...Do you mean the 20-pin power supply connector? Because I'm already using my Blue Storm PSU in the Dell case (chopped part of the rear grill out so it would fit) and it seems to be fine.

I looked closer at the Dell case and (this may be what you were referring to) I see it has a flat cable running from the power/reset switch to the front panel usb/sound ports; then another bigger flat cable goes from there to the motherboard.

The CM case just has what I assume are standard connectors for the power switch, reset switch, and usb...small two-pin female connectors.

I don't care if the front panel usb or sound works on the CM case, I've never used those anyway. But how would I connect the power switch? Maybe there are some pins for it on the mobo somewhere in addition to the flat cable connection?

As for the cooling fan I just got an upgraded cpu/heatsink/fan combo on ebay, so that will be new, normal stuff.

 

[Zepper]

Take a look at this: Asrock NF6G Pix Gallery

The first pic shows the ports connector array all along the edge of the board facing you. The sixth pic shows the metal I/O shield in the upper left which fits into a standard case to cover the area around the ports to help keep the RFI/EMI in and critters out. If your Dell case doesn't have a plate like that around its ports that will fit the cutout in your new case then RFI/EMI and critters can go in and out... Comprende?

.bh.

 

[hans007]

im pretty sure you are screwed on an 8200 as that was not even a standard case (it was sort ofl ike atx with 5 slots).

if you had a really new dell, most were btx, and the newst ones are standard microatx / atx again. 8200 though, probably not gonna work for you.

 

[Commontone]

Originally posted by: Zepper
Take a look at this: Asrock NF6G Pix Gallery

The first pic shows the ports connector array all along the edge of the board facing you. The sixth pic shows the metal I/O shield in the upper left which fits into a standard case to cover the area around the ports to help keep the RFI/EMI in and critters out. If your Dell case doesn't have a plate like that around its ports that will fit the cutout in your new case then RFI/EMI and critters can go in and out... Comprende?

(?) Yes, I understand that! My question was about the power switch, and connecting it to the motherboard.

"im pretty sure you are screwed on an 8200 as that was not even a standard case (it was sort ofl ike atx with 5 slots)."

My Cooler Master case is ATX, and has more than 5 slots...I'm not sure I follow.

The Dell mobo looks almost identical in size to the Intel D850MV's on ebay (what it is, basically) which are ATX.

As long as I can somehow connect the CM case's power switch, I'm willing to try it (can anyone comment on that angle?); at worst, I'll have a chance to clean the Dell case.

 

[Zepper]

Yup, Dell does things the way it is easy for them to crank out boxes, not necessarily what would be easy for you later. As long as the flat cable coming from the front panel fits onto pins on the mobo, you'll just have to figure out which pins are for the power switch and which for the reset switch, power LED, HDD LED, etc and your CM's front panel connectors will work fine. Sometimes the mobo has a legend printed on it next to the connector in small letters or you can find the front panel pinout on Dells support site or around the web. Me, I'd just get out my trusty meter and find out for myself.

.bh.

 

[DerwenArtos12]

To make everything a lot easier and more definite for you, if you could take a high resolution picture(1600x1200 or up) we could actually tell you for almost completely certain if it'll work or not.

 

[Commontone]

I don't have a camera at the moment, unfortunately. However, I found the pinout information for the front panel stuff at Dell's support forum.

Front panel

I will try it and see. The strange thing is, according to that thread the 8200 uses a special proprietary power supply, and it must be used in a new case. However I've been using my FSP Blue Storm as the PSU for about 6 months now, with no noticeable issues. How is that possible?

 

[Commontone]

I thought of another solution...the Intel D850MV motherboard is only $25 or so on ebay. I could get one of those, which are standard ATX and not Dell, and all problems would be solved. The only thing is I don't know if I could reinstall XP on a different mobo, might have to buy another copy of it....

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Originally posted by: Commontone
I thought of another solution...the Intel D850MV motherboard is only $25 or so on ebay. I could get one of those, which are standard ATX and not Dell, and all problems would be solved. The only thing is I don't know if I could reinstall XP on a different mobo, might have to buy another copy of it....

IMHO the EULA for Windows XP states that a single license for windows xp is good for one computer. If you have to replace a major component of that computer due to failure or obsolescence and all the other components remain the same then the EULA should either be carried over or re-applied to the new installation but, only in the circumstance that the old hardware not be used in conjunction with the same license of windows xp. I've never taken the BAR exam but, I'm fairly sure I'm right here.

 

[Commontone]

Hmmm...I'm sure you're right, Derwen. I guess I just have to decide if it's worth spending $120 (mobo + XP) to use a nicer case.

The Intel motherboard BIOS would probably not be so locked up as with Dell; I bet some overclocking would be possible. That's probably worth it right there, I could boost my 2.6GHz P4 a bit and delay the new computer for a while yet.

 

[Zepper]

You could always use Linux on your mutt if you aren't locked into some applications that are windwoes dependent. Free software for most any application in the Linux world. Or you could try to wheedle something out of M$ customer svc. - sometimes they make a concession for someone in the position of upgrading a mobo or such - worth a shot.

.bh.

 

[Commontone]

No Linux for me, I need to use Windows. I'm actually a happy Windows user. I've had this computer seven years, and have had very little trouble with Windows, even with switching a lot of hardware in and out.

Does anyone know of a good source for motherboard screws and standoffs?

 

[Zepper]

sometimes geeks.com has packets of scews and stuff like you get with a case or mobo, sometimes with a HDD and floppy cable too. Remember, not all standoffs for all cases are the same height - I had a case once that had two heights of standoffs... They are normally 1/4" high, but I've seen both higher and lower and I have some of each here. If you are in or near a larger city that supports one or more Mom&Pop computer stores or service shops, they usually have a coffee can full of misc parts (some may be so organized as to keep them sorted) and will help you out at a small cost. www.cyberguys.com usually has a good selection, but they don't properly label their screws. The coarse thread screws that come with most cases are no. 6-32 (most case screws, mobo mounting, HDDs, etc), the fine thread or ISO screws (for floppy and optical drives, etc.) are 3mm Metric (aka M3 size). Standoffs have a number of thread sizes too - the female thread can be different than the male so be sure you get the size you need. Places like McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com), you can choose whatever size you need but you will usually have to buy more than you need.

And screws used on drives should have a thread length of 3/16" or less or be shimmed out with washers, etc. Most Cooler Master and Silverstone products come with drive screws that are too long for safety with all drives.

Good luck,
Bill

 

[frankenhud]

Hi, this is actually Commontone. I had to create another account since my computer is on the fritz and can't retrieve login info.

My funding situation made it clear I wasn't about to buy a new mobo and XP so I went ahead and put the Dell motherboard in the new case. It was tricky getting it out, but once I did I just had to drill a few holes with the Dremel and it now fits perfectly with the Cooler Master screws/standoffs. I modified the stock Cooler Master I/O plate and used it; some of the ports actually fit perfectly. I found the pinout information for the front panel, and for now just have the power switch hooked up and it works.

Unfortunately, something's wrong. I installed everything in the new case exactly as it was, but it likes to hang on the BIOS screen. I started messing with the hard drive master/slave/CS jumpers to see if it helped, and sometimes (but not consistently) it would go to the pre-windows Dell splash screen, then hang there.

One time it said "failed at checkpoint 'writ' " but this hasn't happened again. I can't find anything about that error on the Dell website. Would flashing the BIOS help, if it's possible?

This is really, really irritating...I was so happy to get the mobo fit into the case, and now this garbage. I was careful with everything; is it possible the motherboard got damaged somehow? Any help, any help at all would be appreciated.

 

[DerwenArtos12]

I would try just re-setting the bios. If there is no jumper or switch turn off power at the back of the PSU, unplug the power cable, make sure the board drains completely and pull out the CMOS battery, keep it out for a minimum of 30-60 seconds so that the bios chip has a chance to fully drain of power and re-set. Pop the battery back in, plug in the power calbe, flip the switch on teh back of the PSU and fire it up. Also, it is possible for the bios to be detecting the lack of other front panel connections due to the now open circuits, try connecting everything up front.

 

[frankenhud]

Thanks Derwen...I was able to connect the LEDs to the mobo with the info I had, but not the USB/sound/reset button (the Dell didn't really have a separate reset button).

I reset the BIOS. When it started up, it said "Invalid system configuration" and proceeded to auto configure the hard drives. It then displayed the drive info and said "Please run setup". However, hitting F2 like normal did not run setup, it just hung there.

I turned it off again, waited for the mobo light to go out, turned it on again. This time it seemed to start up normally, and I tried to hit F2 to enter setup, but it just hung at the Dell screen. It seems like the keyboard is slow; I hit numlock to see if it was working, and it took five seconds for the keyboard light to turn off. I went away for a minute, and came back to see the Windows splash screen, however, the bar at the bottom was moving *very* slowly, like one segment every 10 seconds. The system lights on the back were at "normal."

Why would it move so slowly? The hard drive seems louder, but I thought that was just from being in an aluminum case as opposed to plastic. Now I wonder if it got damaged somehow.

 

[DerwenArtos12]

My guess is that your bios became corrupted and the system is running the processor at a multiplier of 1 so your system is running at 166 or 200mhz. That does not however explain the slow keyboard. If it were my system i would completely tear it back apart, check the backside of the motherboard for long tree's and re-assemble slowly and carefully, it could be a grounding issue.

 

[frankenhud]

I actually flashed the BIOS with a newer version, using a DOS boot disk (god, never dreamed I'd use one of those again). That seemed to solve a lot. It will now boot up and go into Windows. It seems fine, but then it will suddenly shut off or reboot. I'm just glad the motherboard and hard drive seem basically functional; hopefully I can sniff out the problem. Thanks again all for your help.

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: Commontone

Originally posted by: Zepper
Take a look at this: Asrock NF6G Pix Gallery

The first pic shows the ports connector array all along the edge of the board facing you. The sixth pic shows the metal I/O shield in the upper left which fits into a standard case to cover the area around the ports to help keep the RFI/EMI in and critters out. If your Dell case doesn't have a plate like that around its ports that will fit the cutout in your new case then RFI/EMI and critters can go in and out... Comprende?

(?) Yes, I understand that! My question was about the power switch, and connecting it to the motherboard.

"im pretty sure you are screwed on an 8200 as that was not even a standard case (it was sort ofl ike atx with 5 slots)."

My Cooler Master case is ATX, and has more than 5 slots...I'm not sure I follow.

The Dell mobo looks almost identical in size to the Intel D850MV's on ebay (what it is, basically) which are ATX.

As long as I can somehow connect the CM case's power switch, I'm willing to try it (can anyone comment on that angle?); at worst, I'll have a chance to clean the Dell case.

what i meant is the hole pattern on the board is probably not standard either. on top of it only having 5 slots.

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Originally posted by: hans007

Originally posted by: Commontone

Originally posted by: Zepper
Take a look at this: Asrock NF6G Pix Gallery

The first pic shows the ports connector array all along the edge of the board facing you. The sixth pic shows the metal I/O shield in the upper left which fits into a standard case to cover the area around the ports to help keep the RFI/EMI in and critters out. If your Dell case doesn't have a plate like that around its ports that will fit the cutout in your new case then RFI/EMI and critters can go in and out... Comprende?

(?) Yes, I understand that! My question was about the power switch, and connecting it to the motherboard.

"im pretty sure you are screwed on an 8200 as that was not even a standard case (it was sort ofl ike atx with 5 slots)."

My Cooler Master case is ATX, and has more than 5 slots...I'm not sure I follow.

The Dell mobo looks almost identical in size to the Intel D850MV's on ebay (what it is, basically) which are ATX.

As long as I can somehow connect the CM case's power switch, I'm willing to try it (can anyone comment on that angle?); at worst, I'll have a chance to clean the Dell case.

what i meant is the hole pattern on the board is probably not standard either. on top of it only having 5 slots.

It's standard, it's just standard BTX.

 

[frankenhud]

UH-OH.....

So the pc was up and running, and would occasionally shut off spontaneously, but worked fine when it was running. I was thinking the BIOS battery might be worn out; it was 7 years old, after all, and on top of that I'd been turning the PC on and off all day yesterday and today.

Then I saw a newer bios version than the one I had flashed. I couldn't leave well enough alone, and decided to flash it in, hoping that might solve the problem. The pc was staying on for a minimum of 10 minutes or so before shutting down, so I thought I'd be fine for the minute or two it would take to boot up the floppy and flash the bios. I was totally wrong. When the bios was 30% erased, the PC shut off.

I've tried some methods for recovering from a bad flash, but nothing's worked so far. I tried putting the flash program in autoexec.bat on the floppy, but the drive never even lights up. I don't have video either. It looks like I may be going without a PC for two or three weeks until I can get a new motherboard and copy of XP

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Originally posted by: frankenhud
UH-OH.....

So the pc was up and running, and would occasionally shut off spontaneously, but worked fine when it was running. I was thinking the BIOS battery might be worn out; it was 7 years old, after all, and on top of that I'd been turning the PC on and off all day yesterday and today.

Then I saw a newer bios version than the one I had flashed. I couldn't leave well enough alone, and decided to flash it in, hoping that might solve the problem. The pc was staying on for a minimum of 10 minutes or so before shutting down, so I thought I'd be fine for the minute or two it would take to boot up the floppy and flash the bios. I was totally wrong. When the bios was 30% erased, the PC shut off.

I've tried some methods for recovering from a bad flash, but nothing's worked so far. I tried putting the flash program in autoexec.bat on the floppy, but the drive never even lights up. I don't have video either. It looks like I may be going without a PC for two or three weeks until I can get a new motherboard and copy of XP

You should be able to just get a new motherboard. The EULA, IMHO, does allow for windows xp to be transfered to a new computer, just not used simultaneously on more than one without a corporate license. I would get a new motherboard, plop it in there, fir up a windows xp disk and run a repair install, that will clear out the registry and allow you to essentially continue using the same install. You may have to call microsoft during the activation but, I've not had a problem in doing exactly this in quite a few years.