Transgender boy wins Texas state girls wrestling title

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bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
I am very curious what the girls he was wrestling against thought. I can imagine the spectrum from outage to vociferous support. Would the reaction of the competitors affect anyone's opinion?

I imagine this law was written with the idea of boys competing in girls sports, not the other way around.

Other wrestlers were pissed off enough to file lawsuits while others refused to wrestle for their own safety.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/na...s-mat-texas/fAe6zoTkk2omeCPQx6ZW6H/story.html

Lisa Latham’s daughter was scheduled to face Beggs in the state tournament’s opening round, and throughout the previous week Latham tried to convince Taylor, a senior at nearby Clear Spring High, to forfeit, as Beggs’ opponents did the previous weekend.

On behalf of the father of one opponent, Baudhuin sent a certified letter in January petitioning the UIL to move Beggs to the boys division. This month he filed a lawsuit that asked for Beggs to be allowed to wrestle boys or removed from the championship tournament. For now, he said, the court has made no decision. The UIL issued a statement Friday that said the birth-certificate rule could change in the future (its legislative council meets in June), and Beggs’ school district determined his testosterone was ‘‘well below the allowed level.’’

Why, several girls asked the wrestling coach who'd asked to remain anonymous, was it OK for Beggs to receive hormones but not them? Why endure training and risk injury if there was no discernible path to victory?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,818
49,514
136
Other wrestlers were pissed off enough to file lawsuits while others refused to wrestle for their own safety.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/na...s-mat-texas/fAe6zoTkk2omeCPQx6ZW6H/story.html

The reason it's okay for him to get hormones and not them is that presumably these hormones were prescribed by a doctor in the course of medical treatment. Athletes use steroids all the time, they just have to be prescribed. That's the whole therapeutic use exception.

Again if people don't like the outcome that's fine, but your problem should be with Texas for passing a stupid law to make it this way.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,310
2,100
126
If she were transitioned I think her birth certificate would have reflected male instead of female. It's definitely a screwed up situation where she had an unfair advantage against the other wrestlers. The logical thing to do in this case is let her wrestle boys, but it could be worse. There's no easy answer for a male to female wrestler, he's always going to have an unfair advantage vs the female opponents even if taking estrogen. What do you tell the girls, deal with it?

Normally I agree with you Casanova, however this is a terrible idea. Babies dont choose gender. Whatever is between your legs at birth will determine what gets put on your certificate.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,403
8,199
126
It's not an easy topic. A born male moving to a female and competing against female sprinters or distance runners has an unfair advantage. A born female, moving to male and competing against males does not. I would imagine that the same holds true for wrestling. The older they are when having the conversion, the more the advantage.

It's really only an issue to me when you involve the competitive advantage that a transgender could have in sports. I couldn't give two shits what bathroom they shit in.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
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To me this is more of an ethics question, ethics of the competitor. The kid is smart enough to know she has a huge advantage. She really should not have competed or at least not compete in the finals.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
The reason it's okay for him to get hormones and not them is that presumably these hormones were prescribed by a doctor in the course of medical treatment. Athletes use steroids all the time, they just have to be prescribed. That's the whole therapeutic use exception.

Again if people don't like the outcome that's fine, but your problem should be with Texas for passing a stupid law to make it this way.

You never get tired of being stupid, do you?

If a person had difficulty walking and got a doctor to prescribe a wheelchair to aid their ability to get around would it then be ethical to use that vehicle to enter a marathon? In fact that very situation came up and it was shown that wheelchairs provide a HUGE advantage to marathons and the best racers can finish the race in about 75% of the time a runner needs. So a lawsuit followed and the rules were amended to reflect the common sense that just because a doctor says something is okay to lead their life that same thing could infer an unfair advantage in competition. What part of that are you too stupid to understand? Hell, don't even limit it to wheel, their are tons of drugs that can be proscribed by a doctor to treat a medical condition that are outlawed in sports because they provide a performance advantage. That's why 'roids and HGH are outside the rules you colossal dumbass. They have a legit medical purpose and provide an illicit athletic advantage. So the athlete is given a choice, take the drug and sit out forgo the drug and compete. It's that freaking simple. The BOY is juicing and gaining an advantage the girls are not allowed. If that kid wants to be a male he should MAN up and stop using the law as an excuse to beat up on little girls. That's something a MAN wouldn't even consider and that explains why YOU would.

I'll bet you were always picked last in gym class, weren't you?
 
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GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
Would a non transgender female that injected testosterone also be allowed?

Of course not and that's the point. Because it's a transgender the liberal guilt idiots are afraid to see the reality of the situation. They somehow have managed to convince themselves that its evolved and open-minded to go beyond acceptance of transgender and instead make it a class that gains rights people of natural gender are not allowed. Of course a boy would not be allowed in a girls division. And of course a girl would not be allowed to wrestle while openly doping. But because the girl wants to be a boy she's suddenly a victim and is allowed to game the system to the detriment of all the girls who are competing honestly on a level playing field.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,818
49,514
136
You never get tired of being stupid, do you?

If a person had difficulty walking and got a doctor to prescribe a wheelchair to aid their ability to get around would it then be ethical to use that vehicle to enter a marathon? In fact that very situation came up and it was shown that wheelchairs provide a HUGE advantage to marathons and the best racers can finish the race in about 75% of the time a runner needs. So a lawsuit followed and the rules were amended to reflect the common sense that just because a doctor says something is okay to lead their life that same thing could infer an unfair advantage in competition. What part of that are you too stupid to understand? Hell, don't even limit it to wheel, their are tons of drugs that can be proscribed by a doctor to treat a medical condition that are outlawed in sports because they provide a performance advantage. That's why 'roids and HGH are outside the rules you colossal dumbass. They have a legit medical purpose and provide an illicit athletic advantage. So the athlete is given a choice, take the drug and sit out forgo the drug and compete. It's that freaking simple. The BOY is juicing and gaining an advantage the girls are not allowed. If that kid wants to be a male he should MAN up and stop using the law as an excuse to beat up on little girls. That's something a MAN wouldn't even consider and that explains why YOU would.

I'll bet you were always picked last in gym class, weren't you?

Keep these coming, they are hilarious.

This is as simple as can be. The state legislature FORCED him to compete against women. If you don't like it, take it up with conservatives.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
Normally I agree with you Casanova, however this is a terrible idea. Babies dont choose gender. Whatever is between your legs at birth will determine what gets put on your certificate.


Oh I agree, I don't buy the gender spectrum arguement or the idea that one can change their sex. If the argument is what it says on your birth certificate though that would this situation if she were to be transitioned, as I think the certificate changes after you transition.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
Keep these coming, they are hilarious.

This is as simple as can be. The state legislature FORCED him to compete against women. If you don't like it, take it up with conservatives.


What if the situation were reversed and it was a male transitioning to female. What would your solution be? Per Obama the male has to be able to compete against the females, do you agree with that?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,818
49,514
136
What if the situation were reversed and it was a male transitioning to female. What would your solution be? Per Obama the male has to be able to compete against the females, do you agree with that?

No, I think it should be left up to the discretion of the people running the sport. As long as everyone who wants to compete has an avenue to do so I'm good with it.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
No, I think it should be left up to the discretion of the people running the sport. As long as everyone who wants to compete has an avenue to do so I'm good with it.


And not the federal government? So you are in agreement with Trump then that these issues are best addressed at the local level instead of Obama's approach that they have to be allowed to play based on the gender they identify with no matter what?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,818
49,514
136
And not the federal government? So you are in agreement with Trump then that these issues are best addressed at the local level instead of Obama's approach that they have to be allowed to play based on the gender they identify with no matter what?

I believe issues like this are best determined at the local level, but I am definitely not in agreement with Trump on transgender issues as a whole. His idea that states should be able to force people into certain bathrooms is irrational.
 

tynopik

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2004
5,245
500
126
No, I think it should be left up to the discretion of the people running the sport. As long as everyone who wants to compete has an avenue to do so I'm good with it.

that is illogical and sexist

saying one gender can do something and the other can't

if a girl can compete with the boys, you can't deny the boys the right to compete with the girls


As long as everyone who wants to go to the bathroom has an avenue to do so I'm good with it.

FTFY
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Win? A legal loophole allows a person to compete while juicing giving him/her/it a huge strength advantage over the competition and to you that's a win? If some bleeding heart politicians allowed me to beat up 8 year old kids and steal their trophies I'd consider myself a winner for not doing it even if the law said it was okay.

If this girl wants to become a boy, more power to her/him. She/he is entitled to live her/his life any way he/she chooses. But he/she has no business competing against actual girls who are not injecting themselves with a steroidal advantage. There's a reason juicing is a no-no in sports and this kid "competing" in an event that's decided in a laboratory rather than in the gym is an insult to all the kids out there playing fairly.

All indications are that he wanted to play against boys but due to Texas law he was not allowed to and forced to play against girls. What would you have him do?
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
What if the situation were reversed and it was a male transitioning to female. What would your solution be? Per Obama the male has to be able to compete against the females, do you agree with that?

Personally, I think trans either direction should have to compete with boys. Yeah, that might make it hard for many to win, but you know, most people can't compete at a varsity level.

Also, I think at an Olympic level, you would you see some men willing to transition to female just to win. People have shown at that level they'll do whatever it takes and don't mind extreme cheating to do it.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
That's the problem with birth certs. They should reflect the biological truth, or we might see a situation where a M2F competes in the olympics and...there's no paper trail telling the truth. Instead, the paper trail tells a lie.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
I believe issues like this are best determined at the local level, but I am definitely not in agreement with Trump on transgender issues as a whole. His idea that states should be able to force people into certain bathrooms is irrational.


why would one best be decided at a local level and the other not (sports vs restrooms)? What about locker rooms/showers?
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,139
5,074
136
From the OP's article
The family of Mack Beggs has said he would rather be wrestling boys, but state policy calls for students to wrestle against the gender listed on their birth certificates.

From Skorpi0s link
Q: Why is Beggs allowed to compete in girls' wrestling?

A: The University Interscholastic League (UIL), which governs high school sports in Texas, passed a policy in February 2016 (which went into effect on Aug. 1 that year) that officially defined gender by what's marked on a person's birth certificate, or other similar identification documents. Beggs' birth certificate indicates female, as that was his assigned sex at birth.

Texas is also one of a handful of states that separates girls' and boys' wrestling. In other states, boys and girls compete against each other.


Problem is Texas being Texas
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,818
49,514
136
why would one best be decided at a local level and the other not (sports vs restrooms)? What about locker rooms/showers?

Because everyone needs to be able to use public restrooms and not everyone needs to play sports. It's important to err on the side of caution when it comes to fundamental rights.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
Because everyone needs to be able to use public restrooms and not everyone needs to play sports. It's important to err on the side of caution when it comes to fundamental rights.


Title 9 (which I agree with and support wholeheartedly) disagrees with you. Otherwise we'd have plenty of places saying girls don't need to play sports. And to be honest I don't agree with schools spending money on sports in general, but if they do girls need equal access.

And no school keeps anyone from using the restroom, the question is how best to handle the very few cases of transgender students.

You never answered regarding locker rooms/showers, how would you address that and should it be a federal or state/local issue to solve?
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
Because everyone needs to be able to use public restrooms and not everyone needs to play sports. It's important to err on the side of caution when it comes to fundamental rights.


And that is exactly why if anyone is taking any performance enhancing drug doctor prescribed or not, transgender or not, they should be barred from competitive sports, because like you said

"Because everyone needs to be able to use public restrooms and not everyone needs to play sports."
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,818
49,514
136
Title 9 (which I agree with and support wholeheartedly) disagrees with you. Otherwise we'd have plenty of places saying girls don't need to play sports. And to be honest I don't agree with schools spending money on sports in general, but if they do girls need equal access.

You should go back and read my previous post where I said everyone needs to have access who wants it.

And no school keeps anyone from using the restroom, the question is how best to handle the very few cases of transgender students.

I'm very sure you know what I meant.

You never answered regarding locker rooms/showers, how would you address that and should it be a federal or state/local issue to solve?

Federal.
 
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