Transgender boy wins Texas state girls wrestling title

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realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
So you would also say that any kid that is prescribed and taking testosterone for any reason should be banned from competing in highschool sports?

I believe that some sports do this very thing. A medical condition that requires medication that gives an advantage would seem very unfair.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
So you would also say that any kid that is prescribed and taking testosterone for any reason should be banned from competing in highschool sports?

Generally speaking when they are prescribed this it is because they have Low-T. But as I and others have said before, men's sports is more of an open league, that should just have supplemental restrictions, like testosterone prescriptions that are being abused or are not medically necessary, steroids, HGH, etc. But it can have hormone therapy FTM. Women's leagues should be only for people born that sex, period.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126

There are limitations.

The individual sports federations and organizations need to decide on the eligibility of transsexual athletes in their sport, and a TUE will only be considered for eligible athletes. The hormones administered to MtF athletes (estrogen, anti-androgens) are not prohibited in sports. Only FtM athletes who take androgens require a TUE. As testosterone administration influences performance measures, it is important that the criteria for the granting of a TUE ensure that FtM athletes have physiological androgen exposure comparable with, but no more than, eugonadal men. This is best ensured by using standard testosterone doses as for androgen deficient men. At the same time, it needs to be remembered that actual levels of circulating testosterone and their determination of muscle mass and strength in males are subject to considerable inter-individual variability.

So MtF (male to female) taking estrogen and anti-androgens are not prohibited because they lessen ability. FtM have to get approval because testosterone is different.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,502
4,596
136
So basically you're saying that this person has a choice of either rejecting their gender identity or no longer competing in a sport they have spent years preparing for, all because officials in Texas passed a stupid rule.

I've got a better idea, get rid of the stupid rule. Problem solved.

Yes. She has a choice of taking drugs to make her ineligible to compete or not.

Choices are sometimes hard.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,699
15,942
136

I'm not an endrochronolgyst(spelling?) or a subject matter expert but I do remember reading a sports page about that topic. They have dosage/concentration limits that are pretty low. I doubt someone doing reassignment is on a minimal dose.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,843
10,242
136
What would be the legal argument to allow girls into men's events, but not men into women's events? To me, it can only be that men are inherently better at most sports because of a biological advantage. The problem with that is many people push the idea that everyone is equal in every way. You would have to legally establish that men are superior which would piss off a whole lot of people.

Basically a top league and an under league, just like divisions in college supports or high school sports. I doubt you'd find many people that honestly thought women on average were as good at sports as men on average. But if there was an amazing WNBA player that could hang with the men, why not let her? Or the more likely sport, LPGA. I think there are multiple cases throughout the years of women suing to get into a men's league, not sure why they should have to go throw all of that just let them in if they are good enough, which basically none of them would be.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
So this means 'you're free to compete at the cost of your gender identity'. Do you see the horror in that now?

What's wrong with the NCAA rules?

Obama didn't agree with the NCAA rules. His order was any student has to be allowed to play under the gender they identify with. A MTF transgender athlete has to be allowed to play against females, no exceptions. Trump didn't necessarily do away with that - it could still be the case - but he defers to the state and local levels to make that call rather than a blanket order from Uncle Sam saying they have to be allowed to play.

It sounds like many here are in agreement with Trump but just don't want to admit it.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
Obama didn't agree with the NCAA rules. His order was any student has to be allowed to play under the gender they identify with. A MTF transgender athlete has to be allowed to play against females, no exceptions. Trump didn't necessarily do away with that - it could still be the case - but he defers to the state and local levels to make that call rather than a blanket order from Uncle Sam saying they have to be allowed to play.

It sounds like many here are in agreement with Trump but just don't want to admit it.

To be honest personally, I think the amount of money blown from state tax dollars for professional sports to build huge stadiums is stupid, to support someone playing a child's game, instead of spending the money educating children.

Trump is currently wanting to starve kids, while on golf outings at Mar-a-Lago almost every weekend since he has taken office.

Think about that one, and get back to me.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
To be honest personally, I think the amount of money blown from state tax dollars for professional sports to build huge stadiums is stupid, to support someone playing a child's game, instead of spending the money educating children.

Trump is currently wanting to starve kids, while on golf outings at Mar-a-Lago almost every weekend since he has taken office.

Think about that one, and get back to me.

I agree the staggering amount of money spent on sports is stupid, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

After I think about that, what am I supposed to get back to you about?
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
I agree the staggering amount of money spent on sports is stupid, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

After I think about that, what am I supposed to get back to you about?

I guess you would have to think a bit more, I suppose.

But divert from your other response I guess, yeah lets go back on topic.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,884
569
126
To be honest personally, I think the amount of money blown from state tax dollars for professional sports to build huge stadiums is stupid, to support someone playing a child's game, instead of spending the money educating children.

Trump is currently wanting to starve kids, while on golf outings at Mar-a-Lago almost every weekend since he has taken office.

Think about that one, and get back to me.
Educating children? What for? So they can continue to participate and grow this system of greed, manipulation and the worship of material goods? That's basically what the education is. It's designed by the elites so the elites can remain in power. Your future generations are going to be even more robotic than the older generations. The young of today have completely and totally lost the sense of independent thinking. But yes, continue spending more and more money to fund their indoctrination ... I mean education.

Trump wants to starve kids? Mmkay. It's not like the previous elites before him actually cared either. If they did, America wouldn't be spending trillion dollars on its military war machine. The spending on the military war machine continues under Democrats and Republicans. Trump is just continuing this madness.

Imagine this for a second: Instead of spending $600 billion to fund your war machine to kill innocent people, why not spend only $300 billion and use the rest to help mankind in a true way?

That will never happen because the elites won't let that happen. Even worse, they are indoctrinating the youth into worship the system built by the elites.

But yeah, continue pumping more money into the system, hoping it gets better somehow.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,751
4,558
136
Educating children? What for? So they can continue to participate and grow this system of greed, manipulation and the worship of material goods? That's basically what the education is. It's designed by the elites so the elites can remain in power.
We're going to stick it to the elites by not sending our kids to school! That'll show them.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,884
569
126
We're going to stick it to the elites by not sending our kids to school! That'll show them.
Right, because I said we should remain ignorant. As long as we're not aware of the fact that the education system is designed to churn out consumers and order followers, we're just going to repeat the cycle over and over again. But elite worship is alive and well so this is a very uphill fight.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
I guess you would have to think a bit more, I suppose.

But divert from your other response I guess, yeah lets go back on topic.


Feel free to fill me in on any point it is you're trying to make. To me it seems you don't have one so you come up with a meaningless "you'll just have to think about it" response.


Do you agree that Obamas policy is not in line with the NCAA's and that Trump's approach seems to be what most of you agree as the correct response?
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,751
4,558
136
I consider myself fortunate then that I went through public school but do not worship the elite. I can only conjecture that I slipped through the cracks and missed the indoctrination classes on account of scheduling conflicts.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,884
569
126
I consider myself fortunate then that I went through public school but do not worship the elite. I can only conjecture that I slipped through the cracks and missed the indoctrination classes on account of scheduling conflicts.
It's often the ones who consider themselves unconditioned are the ones who are most conditioned. Not talking about you here. These things are subtle; if they were obvious, more people would try to resist them.

People unconsciously worship the elite through many, many things. They don't even realize they are doing it but because they've been taught by the education system to do those things. Then of course, your fellow man is another source of heavy conditioning. Combine them and you have our current society.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
I consider myself fortunate then that I went through public school but do not worship the elite. I can only conjecture that I slipped through the cracks and missed the indoctrination classes on account of scheduling conflicts.


Who worships the elite?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,728
49,330
136
Obama didn't agree with the NCAA rules. His order was any student has to be allowed to play under the gender they identify with. A MTF transgender athlete has to be allowed to play against females, no exceptions. Trump didn't necessarily do away with that - it could still be the case - but he defers to the state and local levels to make that call rather than a blanket order from Uncle Sam saying they have to be allowed to play.

It sounds like many here are in agreement with Trump but just don't want to admit it.

Who cares about Obama? He isn't the president. Again, Trump has 'deferred' to the states in much the same way the federal government 'deferred' to segregationists. His policy is abominable, but then again most people know that. It's one reason why he's hated more than any other president in history at this point in his administration I would imagine, wouldn't you agree?

Like I said at the beginning, conservatives are all about restricting freedom of choice so long as it advances conservative objectives. It's reactionary authoritarianism.
 
Reactions: MongGrel

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
Educating children? What for? So they can continue to participate and grow this system of greed, manipulation and the worship of material goods? That's basically what the education is. It's designed by the elites so the elites can remain in power. Your future generations are going to be even more robotic than the older generations. The young of today have completely and totally lost the sense of independent thinking. But yes, continue spending more and more money to fund their indoctrination ... I mean education.

Trump wants to starve kids? Mmkay. It's not like the previous elites before him actually cared either. If they did, America wouldn't be spending trillion dollars on its military war machine. The spending on the military war machine continues under Democrats and Republicans. Trump is just continuing this madness.

Imagine this for a second: Instead of spending $600 billion to fund your war machine to kill innocent people, why not spend only $300 billion and use the rest to help mankind in a true way?

That will never happen because the elites won't let that happen. Even worse, they are indoctrinating the youth into worship the system built by the elites.

But yeah, continue pumping more money into the system, hoping it gets better somehow.

That who post was shooting yourself in the foot on your part.

Perhaps you should read your own posts before you hit send.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
Who cares about Obama? He isn't the president. Again, Trump has 'deferred' to the states in much the same way the federal government 'deferred' to segregationists. His policy is abominable, but then again most people know that. It's one reason why he's hated more than any other president in history at this point in his administration I would imagine, wouldn't you agree?

Like I said at the beginning, conservatives are all about restricting freedom of choice so long as it advances conservative objectives. It's reactionary authoritarianism.


I certainly agree conservatives are about restricting freedoms, democrats too. Whose freedom is the only thing in question, but neither side takes a laissez fairer approach to individual liberties.

And you're right Obama isn't president, but we're discussing a reversal of one of his policies. As much as you despise him you seem to substantively side with Trump in regards to transgenders in sports however. You favor a local approach for dealing with it and said the NCAA rules suffice, that's not something Obama agreed with and Trump's policy does. It's tainted with Trumpness so I don't expect you to come out and admit it, but it is what it is.
 

mrjminer

Platinum Member
Dec 2, 2005
2,739
16
76
Can you blame her? I don't think it's her fault for competing; it's the fault of the organization for letting her compete while on a performance enhancer. If I were an athlete and the rules were such that I could get an unfair advantage, I'd have to be crazy not to take it. There's no morale obligation in a competition other than playing according to the rules.
 
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