Transitioning from employer-paid healthcare to tax-paid healthcare

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
I got to

the single payer system liberals and apparently most Americans want

and had to stop. If you start with that sort of premise/assumption, how can anything later be even close to reality?

I agree, but I still played along. Seriously though, if some plan can address my two main concerns, I'm all ears on it. Until those two are addressed though, it's a double deal breaker.

Chuck

Im in the same boat.

My part of my current benefits are approx. 11% of my gross, and thats for a gold plated plan. My employer's portion is about 16% of my gross, so altogether 27% of my gross is for healthcare. Now, unless the government's cost is 1/2 or more of current (which is HIGHLY unlikely), my increase from my employer (the $$$ I pay for my portion) wont offset the new increase in taxes to cover my new healthcare plan. This troubles me.

Well, perhaps you ought to consider NOT getting a gold-plated plan.

One of the contributors to increasing health care costs is plans that cover almost anything, with very small or no deductibles or co-pays. When consumers have such plans, they have absolutely no incentive to reduce their consumption of and demand for health care services.

If the changes in funding premiums induces people such as you to NOT get gold-plated plans, that's a GOOD thing, regardless of what you personally would prefer.

So how does the gov't subsidizing(public option/medicare/etc)/providing HC(UHC) address the issue you state?(bolded)

i was talking to my brother about this, and he said someone suggested a system (or said system exists, can't remember) where you pay up to let's say.. $4000 out of pocket, after which the gov takes care of the rest. that way, you're not going to the doctor for trivial crap (because you have to pony up some $$), but for major things, you're not going to get bankrupted because you're stuck with phenomenally large bills for complicated procedures.

seems like a pretty reasonable system offhand.

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
i was talking to my brother about this, and he said someone suggested a system (or said system exists, can't remember) where you pay up to let's say.. $4000 out of pocket, after which the gov takes care of the rest. that way, you're not going to the doctor for trivial crap (because you have to pony up some $$), but for major things, you're not going to get bankrupted because you're stuck with phenomenally large bills for complicated procedures.

seems like a pretty reasonable system offhand.

You can get those plans right now. They are called catastrophic plans. They cost roughly $75/month.

Obama wants to take this private option away.

Choice and competition exists in the current system. The only thing holding competition back is GOVERNMENT. If GOVERNMENT would get out of the way and allow companies to compete across state lines competition would go up.

It is just like car insurance. You can CHOOSE high deductible low monthly payment, low deductible high monthly payment, or something in between.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
I got to

the single payer system liberals and apparently most Americans want

and had to stop. If you start with that sort of premise/assumption, how can anything later be even close to reality?

I agree, but I still played along. Seriously though, if some plan can address my two main concerns, I'm all ears on it. Until those two are addressed though, it's a double deal breaker.

Chuck

Im in the same boat.

My part of my current benefits are approx. 11% of my gross, and thats for a gold plated plan. My employer's portion is about 16% of my gross, so altogether 27% of my gross is for healthcare. Now, unless the government's cost is 1/2 or more of current (which is HIGHLY unlikely), my increase from my employer (the $$$ I pay for my portion) wont offset the new increase in taxes to cover my new healthcare plan. This troubles me.

Well, perhaps you ought to consider NOT getting a gold-plated plan.

One of the contributors to increasing health care costs is plans that cover almost anything, with very small or no deductibles or co-pays. When consumers have such plans, they have absolutely no incentive to reduce their consumption of and demand for health care services.

If the changes in funding premiums induces people such as you to NOT get gold-plated plans, that's a GOOD thing, regardless of what you personally would prefer.

So how does the gov't subsidizing(public option/medicare/etc)/providing HC(UHC) address the issue you state?(bolded)

i was talking to my brother about this, and he said someone suggested a system (or said system exists, can't remember) where you pay up to let's say.. $4000 out of pocket, after which the gov takes care of the rest. that way, you're not going to the doctor for trivial crap (because you have to pony up some $$), but for major things, you're not going to get bankrupted because you're stuck with phenomenally large bills for complicated procedures.

seems like a pretty reasonable system offhand.

I would agree it might seem reasonable but I'd really have to see the details and also make sure it is Constitutionally sound.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Ausm

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Ausm

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: Ausm
How can we have choice now if we are locked into 1 plan where we work or if we do not have employer based insurance when Blue Cross has95% of the business in my state?

Tell your employer you want a different plan.
Buy your own plan
Find a new job that offers a different plan.

And to answer your final point, I am all for allowing health insurance companies the ability to compete across state lines.

1)Tell your Employer you want a different plan??? hahaha Do you have a job? it doesn't work that way IRL.

2) Buying an individual plan is ok if you enjoy legalized rape.

3) Not going to quit my job after 30 years.

4)Nice GOP talking point that I don't buy into.

1. I sit on a committee that deals with employee benefits for my company. I represent my team plus a few admin folks. I take their concerns to the committee.

2. your CHOICE

3. your CHOICE

4. isn't the excuse you leftists use for obamacare's public option is more competition?

1) It ain't going to happen where I work

2) So if your only choice is no choice or rape is that good?

3) No shit sherlock

4):roll: So why wouldn't the public option work? If it didn't work then why is the insurance industry fighting it tooth and nail?

1. you CHOSE to work there
2. Do you not understand the concept of CHOICE?
3. finally starting to get it?
4. Why not get the gov't out of the way and let them compete across lines? Why do you people think a problem created by gov't is better solved by MORE gov't which doesn't really address the issue - rather just shifts/masks it.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Hopefully, most employers would shift the funds to compensation.

Please hold your breath and wait for that to happen.

I'm somewhat shocked that you at least recognize and admit to the largest flaw in the entire reform plan -- that being increased cost to consumers, rather than the supposed "savings" reform was supposed to give us.

Admit it: we're fucked.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
I got to

the single payer system liberals and apparently most Americans want

and had to stop. If you start with that sort of premise/assumption, how can anything later be even close to reality?

just like when the socialist groups was thumping about a poll that had something around a 90%+ positive rate when asked would you want UHC if it cost you nothing; which is impossible since no one has yet found the mystical grove of money trees.

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
I got to

the single payer system liberals and apparently most Americans want

and had to stop. If you start with that sort of premise/assumption, how can anything later be even close to reality?

just like when the socialist groups was thumping about a poll that had something around a 90%+ positive rate when asked would you want UHC if it cost you nothing; which is impossible since no one has yet found the mystical grove of money trees.

Except it would cost a lot of people nothing seeing as 45% of Americans either pay no taxes or get free money from the government.

Gotta love people paying "their fair share"

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Ausm

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Ausm

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: Ausm
How can we have choice now if we are locked into 1 plan where we work or if we do not have employer based insurance when Blue Cross has95% of the business in my state?

Tell your employer you want a different plan.
Buy your own plan
Find a new job that offers a different plan.

And to answer your final point, I am all for allowing health insurance companies the ability to compete across state lines.

1)Tell your Employer you want a different plan??? hahaha Do you have a job? it doesn't work that way IRL.

2) Buying an individual plan is ok if you enjoy legalized rape.

3) Not going to quit my job after 30 years.

4)Nice GOP talking point that I don't buy into.

1. I sit on a committee that deals with employee benefits for my company. I represent my team plus a few admin folks. I take their concerns to the committee.

2. your CHOICE

3. your CHOICE

4. isn't the excuse you leftists use for obamacare's public option is more competition?

1) It ain't going to happen where I work

2) So if your only choice is no choice or rape is that good?

3) No shit sherlock

4):roll: So why wouldn't the public option work? If it didn't work then why is the insurance industry fighting it tooth and nail?

1. you CHOSE to work there
2. Do you not understand the concept of CHOICE?
3. finally starting to get it?
4. Why not get the gov't out of the way and let them compete across lines? Why do you people think a problem created by gov't is better solved by MORE gov't which doesn't really address the issue - rather just shifts/masks it.

1)No shit?
2)Yeah I understand choice but I would like more then 2 choices is that to much to ask?
3) Am I getting what? I understand that your ok with hardly any choice at all...is that getting it?
4)I understand choice but I am not buying the GOP talking point of competition across state lines.What do you mean it doesn't address the issue? The public option would drastically make insurance prices drop.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: Ausm
4)I understand choice but I am not buying the GOP talking point of competition across state lines.What do you mean it doesn't address the issue? The public option would drastically make insurance prices drop.

You are extremely naive or uneducated. If insurance companies are forced to take people with pre-existing conditions and then face forced competition from a government insurance plan, that not only doesn't have to make money but would likely become a black hole for tax dollars because it will loose money, then the only long run option private insurance companies would have is to simply stop providing health insurance.....which is EXACTLY what the Dems want.

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Ausm
4)I understand choice but I am not buying the GOP talking point of competition across state lines.What do you mean it doesn't address the issue? The public option would drastically make insurance prices drop.

You are extremely naive or uneducated. If insurance companies are forced to take people with pre-existing conditions and then face forced competition from a government insurance plan, that not only doesn't have to make money but would likely become a black hole for tax dollars because it will loose money, then the only long run option private insurance companies would have is to simply stop providing health insurance.....which is EXACTLY what the Dems want.

I am naive and/or uneducated? :roll:

If the public option wouldn't lower insurance costs then why are they fighting it so hard?This would force the insurance companies to honestly compete and they would have to lower their rates. The public option is a form of Medicare, I don't see that putting the public insurance companies out of business.
According to the CBO the public option would lower the deficit.

Looks like 1 more nail in the GOP anti-healtcare war.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/21/health.care.cbo/

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: Ausm

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Ausm
4)I understand choice but I am not buying the GOP talking point of competition across state lines.What do you mean it doesn't address the issue? The public option would drastically make insurance prices drop.

You are extremely naive or uneducated. If insurance companies are forced to take people with pre-existing conditions and then face forced competition from a government insurance plan, that not only doesn't have to make money but would likely become a black hole for tax dollars because it will loose money, then the only long run option private insurance companies would have is to simply stop providing health insurance.....which is EXACTLY what the Dems want.

I am naive and/or uneducated? :roll:

If the public option wouldn't lower insurance costs then why are they fighting it so hard?This would force the insurance companies to honestly compete and they would have to lower their rates. The public option is a form of Medicare, I don't see that putting the public insurance companies out of business.
According to the CBO the public option would lower the deficit.

Looks like 1 more nail in the GOP anti-healtcare war.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/21/health.care.cbo/

Might want to read up on that. The CBO does 10 year projections and in the legislation there is 10 years of taxes and 5 years of spending which is also ramped up. Might I ask what happens when the taxes go year for year with spending?

Again, what article and section grants the federal government the power to offer a government option?

It is all cost shifting. You have the government paying out 70 cents on the dollar, guess what, those with private plans will have to make up the rest. Guess what, that means premiums will go up. Guess what, if premiums go up, there will be more people on the government option.....and the cycle continues until there is UHC.

Once there is UHC who will be paying for it? Not the 45% of Americans who PAY NO TAXES or get TAX CREDITS. Why don't they (in Obama's own words) "pay their fair share"?

 

[Ozoned]

Just think, Drug dealers will be able to offer their pushers a medical plan. Heheheheh.

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: Ausm

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Ausm
4)I understand choice but I am not buying the GOP talking point of competition across state lines.What do you mean it doesn't address the issue? The public option would drastically make insurance prices drop.

You are extremely naive or uneducated. If insurance companies are forced to take people with pre-existing conditions and then face forced competition from a government insurance plan, that not only doesn't have to make money but would likely become a black hole for tax dollars because it will loose money, then the only long run option private insurance companies would have is to simply stop providing health insurance.....which is EXACTLY what the Dems want.

I am naive and/or uneducated? :roll:

If the public option wouldn't lower insurance costs then why are they fighting it so hard?This would force the insurance companies to honestly compete and they would have to lower their rates. The public option is a form of Medicare, I don't see that putting the public insurance companies out of business.
According to the CBO the public option would lower the deficit.

Looks like 1 more nail in the GOP anti-healtcare war.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/21/health.care.cbo/

Not the 45% of Americans who PAY NO TAXES or get TAX CREDITS. Why don't they (in Obama's own words) "pay their fair share"?

Do you sleep with this macro?