I am sure that is what you believe.Not a reasonable person because I don't jump to conclusions unlike others? Or not jumping to the conclusions you want me to jump to? When people post where I make an actual mistake I actually do the reasonable thing and own up to it. Done it a few times in this thread already. Would an unreasonable person do that? I have no problem with dialog, but when people make the same argument over and over that there already discrediting info provided against said info I am not one to be swayed by posts like that.
Remember the guy who made the video? The guy who's done TV interviews? He's now been arrested for murder as well.
Man who recorded the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery has been arrested, GBI says
William "Roddie" Bryan Jr., the man who recorded the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery in a neighborhood outside Brunswick, Georgia, has been arrested on charges including felony murder, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation said Thursday.www.cnn.com
Evidently, the father of the guy who shot Arbury told the police that he was in on the attempt to "stop" Arbury. So they arrested him for felony murder.
Yes, from a source I found out he was blocking Arbery from running a specific direction and force him to run back the street towards the house he left originally. For reference, he has been trying to play the innocent card here, but he was part of the citizens arrest. That means if the prosecution gets felony aggravated assault it should apply to him Side note, if that charge doesn't stick, then he will get off. Still this presents a dangerous precedent here. Think about it. If you see someone committing a crime and decide to follow to help the cops, but someone else doing the same thing commits a crimes doing while trying to help law enforcement that could lead to you being held responsible. That will be a bad thing in the future. What many people may not realize on this forum, neighborhood groups do a lot to help law enforcement out in preventing crime and helping catch criminals. If someone like Bryan Williams goes to jail for this, it is going to dissuade people from doing anything to help prevent crime in the future so they don't get potentially associated with something that lands them in jail too. If any other poster here doesn't see how this can be a very bad thing I can only think those people like criminals and crime.
The problem is he claimed he did not know the gruesome twosome were armed and "barely knows" the McMichael's, tough sell in court. I also doubt neighborhood watch programs will be affected very much either, their training from local cops is to INFORM a LEO about possibly suspicious person(s) NOT follow and engage them with a loaded fucking shotgun. Anyone can be an effective neighborhood watch participant without the degree of lunacy displayed by these three idiots and your insinuation of "I hope you like crime" is laughable.Yes, from a source I found out he was blocking Arbery from running a specific direction and force him to run back the street towards the house he left originally. For reference, he has been trying to play the innocent card here, but he was part of the citizens arrest. That means if the prosecution gets felony aggravated assault it should apply to him Side note, if that charge doesn't stick, then he will get off. Still this presents a dangerous precedent here. Think about it. If you see someone committing a crime and decide to follow to help the cops, but someone else doing the same thing commits a crimes doing while trying to help law enforcement that could lead to you being held responsible. That will be a bad thing in the future. What many people may not realize on this forum, neighborhood groups do a lot to help law enforcement out in preventing crime and helping catch criminals. If someone like Bryan Williams goes to jail for this, it is going to dissuade people from doing anything to help prevent crime in the future so they don't get potentially associated with something that lands them in jail too. If any other poster here doesn't see how this can be a very bad thing I can only think those people like criminals and crime.
Remember the guy who made the video? The guy who's done TV interviews? He's now been arrested for murder as well.
Man who recorded the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery has been arrested, GBI says
William "Roddie" Bryan Jr., the man who recorded the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery in a neighborhood outside Brunswick, Georgia, has been arrested on charges including felony murder, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation said Thursday.www.cnn.com
Evidently, the father of the guy who shot Arbury told the police that he was in on the attempt to "stop" Arbury. So they arrested him for felony murder.
You fail to also understand the part that by Georgia law, a citizen can use a gun to affect a citizens arrest. They can even brandish a firearm (aka point it) if the arrest is about a felony or reasonable person can believe the criminal offender could be armed at the time.
It's ironic that this guy's lawyer leaked the video that started the whole commotion. What a dummy!
That said, I think the prosecutors are probably overplaying their hand here. Felony murder is a terrible doctrine in general, but it's not something that often catches the public eye. It's absurd that there are all of these conditions based on state of mind to delineate various degrees of murder and manslaughter, and then you can go and charge someone who didn't pull the trigger, didn't have any intent to kill anyone, nor any control over the person who did, with what is effectively first degree murder.
Legally, if they have a good case that the citizen's arrest attempt was a felony, the prosecutors can apply this doctrine even if it's a bad one. But I think this could ultimately backfire and make it more difficult to convict the McMichaels. It makes things more complicated for one, and it lends to the perception that the prosecutors are being heavy handed because of public outrage. It's much easier to put yourself in the shoes of the guy who followed his neighbours and recorded the incident, felt so bad about the way it went down that the video got released, etc. than it is the two gun-totting vigilantes.
Yes, at the margins, the felony murder rule can be quite harsh. It varies depending on jurisdictions. There are cases where someone goes to rob a convenience store with an unloaded gun, never meaning to shoot anyone, but the cashier has a gun, fires at the robber, accidentally hits and kills another patron. And the robber goes down for first degree murder. The law correctly views the robber as being responsible for the death, but in reality the responsibility is indirect and more akin to manslaughter.
At its core, the rule is meant to deter the commission of the underlying felony, particularly the types of felonies for which harm and death are reasonably foreseeable. But most jurisdictions don't even limit the rule to certain types of felonies. And since most people don't understand the rule very well, the deterrence value is limited. I favor a more narrowly constructed felony murder rule.
Like I said above in reply to HP, I think there's a good argument here that the underlying felony of assault was personal to the son. It arguably consisted of a spur of the moment decision to jump out and brandish the firearm, which is the "threat" which may qualify it as an assault. If that decision really was spur of the moment, then I don't see the father or the video man as being participants. In that scenario, they would likely take some kind of misdemeanor like false imprisonment or false arrest but that's all.
Does the father get any charges for firing his weapon?
Does the father get any charges for firing his weapon?
He will have to convince a Jury that he knew that they were unarmed, knowing the father was employed as a LEO and prosecutor before he retired, this might not be easy. Helping to, (or attempting to help) funnel Arbery into the path of the gruesome twosome is why he eventually got charged.Did he fire? If so, I missed that element of the facts.
The answer is yes, that alone is at a minimum felony assault. It will make it much tougher for him to distance himself from the son's underlying felony and escape felony murder.
But my argument still holds for the video man.
exactly!!Interesting how you think in the Arbery case it is legitimate to suspect him for a crime because he was "investigated" for something unrelated
correction -- He’s always viewing from the point of the white armed guys in the truck “protecting their neighborhood”It never occurs to him to view the situation from the victim does it? He’s always viewing from the point of the armed guys in the truck “protecting their neighborhood” and never the guy out for a jog.
Another example of inherent bias.
That is a bull shit statement! You do not know anymore than the rest of us.....dmn I sure hope your handlers are paying you by the word.....Couple things to break down here. The reasonable and probable clause relates to it all. Felony or midemeanor. Direct witness or with "immediate knowledge" relates to both. Direct witness is far easier to defend against I'll grant that. But immediate knowledge is a defense here as well. Greg stated he saw arbery hauling ass past his porch in his statement to the police. He said he immediately recognized him from the footage as well of previous trespassing attempts. I don't know how the argument will turn out in court for defense on immediate knowledge or not here. It can go very badly for the two if the jury don't think it is a valid defense in this scenario. I still find it unlikely given the circumstances, but could turn out that way.
However, you are committing a logic fallacy here. We don't know if the McMichaels presented firearms here. Presenting implies escalation of force. Carrying isn't considered use of force. It could very well be that there is evidence, like witness testimony still not released, that state if the McMichaels aimed their guns during part the chase or as Travis got out. The video we the public have seen doesn't show that though. Doesn't mean it didn't happen since the video wasn't showing the actions of the McMichaels during the entire encounter. I've already stated for misdemeanor citizen's arrest I feel a jury would certainly not consider presenting a firearm as a reasonable escalation of use of force so far if one can be proven to have happened. Lastly though on this point. Even if the McMichaels did aim their firearm(s) at Arbery during some point of the chase, if it confirmed with other evidence we don't know about yet that Arbery had stolen something then dumped along the way, or the McMichaels could reasonably believe (by a jury of their peers) that Arbery was running from a felony and not a misdemeanor (like say Perez told them "He's running because he stole something!") then the escalation of force would be justified by them.
For reference on Georgia's brandishing law:
(https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-16/chapter-11/article-4/part-1/16-11-102/)
Different states have different laws regarding brandishing. In Georgia you have to POINT your weapon and have no legal justification in doing so. The mere act of carrying a long gun in hand in Georgia is not brandishing or presenting there.
As I said before, there is a lot of evidence I know hasn't been released to the public and we'll see what plays out in court.
From a source that is too funny....it had already been published....rofl...your too funny!Yes, from a source I found out he was blocking Arbery from running a specific direction and force him to run back the street towards the house he left originally. For reference, he has been trying to play the innocent card here, but he was part of the citizens arrest. That means if the prosecution gets felony aggravated assault it should apply to him Side note, if that charge doesn't stick, then he will get off. Still this presents a dangerous precedent here. Think about it. If you see someone committing a crime and decide to follow to help the cops, but someone else doing the same thing commits a crimes doing while trying to help law enforcement that could lead to you being held responsible. That will be a bad thing in the future. What many people may not realize on this forum, neighborhood groups do a lot to help law enforcement out in preventing crime and helping catch criminals. If someone like Bryan Williams goes to jail for this, it is going to dissuade people from doing anything to help prevent crime in the future so they don't get potentially associated with something that lands them in jail too. If any other poster here doesn't see how this can be a very bad thing I can only think those people like criminals and crime.
Father never fired his weapon. 3 shotgun shots are all that are in the police report.
Did he fire? If so, I missed that element of the facts.
The answer is yes, that alone is at a minimum felony assault. It will make it much tougher for him to distance himself from the son's underlying felony and escape felony murder.
But my argument still holds for the video man.
I wasn't following the entire conversation, just curious what the guy in the truckbed discharging his firearm would render
The guy in the truck bed was the father Gregory McMichaels. He never fired a shot in that encounter. Only the shotgun held my his son Travis discharged. It discharged 3 verified shots at Arbery.
Ahmaud Arbery's Autopsy Report Reveals 3 Wounds from Shotgun
Ahmaud Arbery's autopsy reveals 'homicide' was considered the cause of death.www.tmz.com
All three shotgun shots wounded Arbery in different places.
What is really sick about this thread is that we have some real sicko`s who was this to be a justified assassination...
From the trial, Trayvon made it home safe. Then turned around to attack GZ. Closed a distance of at least several houses before pinning him to the ground. Leaving no choice but what followed.
These men chased down a man and directly confronted him.
That's a huge difference in the setup and who should ultimately be responsible for the outcome. These men should be hanged.
My comment was concerning this present case! Obviously comprehension is not one of your strong suits!I agree with Jaskalas with the info we have so far.
Very different cases and the title thread is misleading people to instigate arguments from their prior bias of Trayvon's case.