Trayvon Martin all over again.

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alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,668
3,067
136
A black man being chased by a pickup truck with 2 white guys sporting a confederate flag doesn't have a reason to run? Under what law or rule is he obligated to stop?

Only one reason why jury would infer guilt under those circumstances.

I'm not disagreeing with you but from what I heard on NPR is they had the previous GA state flag (which has the stars and bars) on their front plate.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
A black man being chased by a pickup truck with 2 white guys sporting a confederate flag doesn't have a reason to run? Under what law or rule is he obligated to stop?

Only one reason why jury would infer guilt under those circumstances.

Maybe my post wasn't super clear. I was talking about whether or not the confederate flag license plate holder would make it in to evidence and asking @woolfe9998 his impression about the importance of it is a piece of evidence to try and get a sense for how reasonable the effort to exclude it is.

What I was saying is that it seemed like it may be important to include because without it, the jury might interpret Arbery's motivation to run as Arbery acting out of guilt for whatever he did at the construction site.

Like you say, I think it's important that the jury know this to establish a clearer motivation for Arbery to run, and in my mind that would be powerful in defeating the citizen's arrest defense.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,571
7,634
136
Slavery-era Georgia law is key defense argument in trial over Ahmaud Arbery's killing

Sensational headline, little more mundane in fact. Apparently Georgia had a citizens arrest law, that the State repealed in response to this murder. As is consistent with another thread, chasing someone down does not make you a hero. It makes you responsible for what follows. If you scare someone and they reasonably try to defend themselves, that is your fault. Any violence / death that follows is the fault of the attacker giving chase. Not the victim being chased. Ahmaud Arbery was murdered and his killers deserve a big fat sentence for it.

I wish our fellow Americans would be consistent on that point. You have no right to lynch someone, and they have every right to protect themselves.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,282
28,141
136
Slavery-era Georgia law is key defense argument in trial over Ahmaud Arbery's killing

Sensational headline, little more mundane in fact. Apparently Georgia had a citizens arrest law, that the State repealed in response to this murder. As is consistent with another thread, chasing someone down does not make you a hero. It makes you responsible for what follows. If you scare someone and they reasonably try to defend themselves, that is your fault. Any violence / death that follows is the fault of the attacker giving chase. Not the victim being chased. Ahmaud Arbery was murdered and his killers deserve a big fat sentence for it.

I wish our fellow Americans would be consistent on that point. You have no right to lynch someone, and they have every right to protect themselves.
A lot of Americans are consistent on one thing. If a black person is accused they must have done something and the white man is always justified.

We have about a dozen in this forum
 
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soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
Slavery-era Georgia law is key defense argument in trial over Ahmaud Arbery's killing

Sensational headline, little more mundane in fact. Apparently Georgia had a citizens arrest law, that the State repealed in response to this murder. As is consistent with another thread, chasing someone down does not make you a hero. It makes you responsible for what follows. If you scare someone and they reasonably try to defend themselves, that is your fault. Any violence / death that follows is the fault of the attacker giving chase. Not the victim being chased. Ahmaud Arbery was murdered and his killers deserve a big fat sentence for it.

I wish our fellow Americans would be consistent on that point. You have no right to lynch someone, and they have every right to protect themselves.
What act of violence had Aubery committed that caused him to be chased vs Rittenhouse ?
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,282
28,141
136
What act of violence had Aubery committed that caused him to be chased vs Rittenhouse ?
2 different cases. Arbury was chased down the streets of GA. Jogging while black. White guys claimed he was stealing
Rittenhouse shot and killed people at a BLM protest
 
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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
Slavery-era Georgia law is key defense argument in trial over Ahmaud Arbery's killing

Sensational headline, little more mundane in fact. Apparently Georgia had a citizens arrest law, that the State repealed in response to this murder. As is consistent with another thread, chasing someone down does not make you a hero. It makes you responsible for what follows. If you scare someone and they reasonably try to defend themselves, that is your fault. Any violence / death that follows is the fault of the attacker giving chase. Not the victim being chased. Ahmaud Arbery was murdered and his killers deserve a big fat sentence for it.

I wish our fellow Americans would be consistent on that point. You have no right to lynch someone, and they have every right to protect themselves.

I wish people would stop with the sensationalist headlines. I recognize their value from a business standpoint, but I see no way in which the citizen's arrest statute is tied to slavery apart from its age. It's reasonable to paint a picture of what life in GA was like at the time the statute was codified into law and its relative lack of application since in order to show a cultural contrast, but headlines like this to me just provide reasons for people who aren't already invested in movements to change how racism influences law enforcement to discount their well-founded efforts.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,282
28,141
136
I wish people would stop with the sensationalist headlines. I recognize their value from a business standpoint, but I see no way in which the citizen's arrest statute is tied to slavery apart from its age. It's reasonable to paint a picture of what life in GA was like at the time the statute was codified into law and its relative lack of application since in order to show a cultural contrast, but headlines like this to me just provide reasons for people who aren't already invested in movements to change how racism influences law enforcement to discount their well-founded efforts.
Not just age. The law was created BECAUSE of slavery
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
I wish people would stop with the sensationalist headlines. I recognize their value from a business standpoint, but I see no way in which the citizen's arrest statute is tied to slavery apart from its age. It's reasonable to paint a picture of what life in GA was like at the time the statute was codified into law and its relative lack of application since in order to show a cultural contrast, but headlines like this to me just provide reasons for people who aren't already invested in movements to change how racism influences law enforcement to discount their well-founded efforts.

Agreed. It should also be mentioned that IIRC every state has a citizen's arrest law, including California. Many of these states didn't exist during the timeframe of slavery.
 
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pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,512
4,607
136
I do your work for you most of the time. Just don't feel like it now.

Not just this thread but there are others. Most of us already know this.


Since when is it my job to root out your claims?

You said we have a dozen or so on the forum...
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,273
8,198
136
I wish people would stop with the sensationalist headlines. I recognize their value from a business standpoint, but I see no way in which the citizen's arrest statute is tied to slavery apart from its age. It's reasonable to paint a picture of what life in GA was like at the time the statute was codified into law and its relative lack of application since in order to show a cultural contrast, but headlines like this to me just provide reasons for people who aren't already invested in movements to change how racism influences law enforcement to discount their well-founded efforts.


Usually, when one hears about a law or institution that dates back more than a century or so in the US, I would tend to assume it had some racial or slavery-related element to its origin. That's normally what one discovers. And that appears to be the case with this law also - seems like it goes beyond just its 'age'. Citizens Arrest might not be _intrinsically_ connected to race as a concept, but it seems as a matter of historical contingency, the law in this part of the US is indeed so connected.

(To be clear, all I did was web search the topic, but I pretty much found what I expected to)



Quote from the above article, which seems to make the case that this particular instantiation of the concept does indeed have a lot to do with race.

Georgia’s laws were formally codified in 1861 by Thomas Cobb, a lawyer and slaveholder who died at the Battle of Fredericksburg in 1862. It was the first formal codification of state common law in the United States. It was also racist. In the original code, African Americans were assumed to be enslaved unless they could prove free status. Georgia’s Citizen’s Arrest statues were first entered into the Law Code of Georgia in 1863.



Thomas Cobb was the author of An Inquiry into the Law of Negro Slavery in the United States of America (1858). In the book, Cobb argued “[T]his inquiry into the physical, mental, and moral development of the negro race seems to point them clearly, as peculiarly fitted for a laborious class. The physical frame is capable of great and long-continued exertion. Their mental capacity renders them incapable of successful self-development, and yet adapts them for the direction of the wiser race. Their moral character renders them happy, peaceful, contented and cheerful in a status that would break the spirit and destroy the energies of the Caucasian or the native American” (46). Cobb’s views on race and slavery shaped the Georgia legal code.



The Code Law Code of Georgia was heavily revised after the 1865 passage of the Thirteenth Amendment ended slavery in the United States, and has been revised and reenacted a number of times during the last 150 plus years. However, the Civil War era citizen’s arrest provision remains.



In 1863, when the citizen’s arrest provision was added to the Law Code, slavery and Georgia law enforcement were in serious disarray. Georgian units in the Confederate army were primarily stationed in Virginia. The Union army was preparing to invade the state from Tennessee. Enslaved Africans were fleeing plantations to join Union forces. Confederate deserters were hiding in inaccessible Appalachian counties in the north and swamp regions of the south. With its criminal justice system in a state of collapse, the 1863 code revision empowered white Georgians to replace law enforcement and slave patrols to keep the enslaved Black population under control.
 
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pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,512
4,607
136
I would assume it's anyone that doesn't espouse a progressive agenda. You and I are certainly on the list.


I assume you are correct even though I have never even suggested that

"If a black person is accused they must have done something and the white man is always justified. "

Is true.

But we know how HomerJS loves his little innuendo's...
 
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