Yea, they're actions weren't reasonable, but you spent quite a bit of time rationalizing them anyways. Lol
Fictional? Those were real events. Don't be so fucking lazy just to avoid being wrong.
You said...
"Carrying a firearm, even in plain view, cannot legally ever be considered a threat."
"Cops cannot shot you just because you are armed. "
I told you that is incorrect and gave real examples. Your response was to deflect.
Yea, they're actions weren't reasonable, but you spent quite a bit of time rationalizing them anyways. Lol
Didn't rationalize anything. Stated what the facts we knew where and the possible outcomes. Never once said they were innocent nor guilty. I said what could be the outcomes based on missing facts once presented in court. But if it makes you feel better that I was just defending them from the outset to appease your world view of some random internet person is mean then enjoy.
Literally the only person for a case like this I've defended from the outset has been Kyle Rittenhouse and for good reason. The evidence automatically from the beginning proved his innocence to the point there was no other verdict that could be had.
Sure champ.
I believe these two guys should be in jail for at least negligent homicide.
Actually first post in this thread I said I believed they were guilty.
Page 2 - Trayvon Martin all over again.
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But keep thinking like all the other idiots around here I said something else champ.
You contradict yourself. One step forwards and then two back is going backwards. Duh
Depends on the relative size of the steps.
I'd say that things have changed, the form of racism has changed and the context within which it is embedded has changed.
Of course, it's not my country, so I'm no expert. But in a general sense, it sometimes seems as if things never get better, problems just mutate and change form.
Here, for example, we still have racism, but it's not exactly the same as it was in the days of Enoch Powell or, before that, Oswold Mosely. Not necessarily 'better', but different.
I agree with most of your post.
But this part "Depends on the relative size of the steps." seems to be splitting hairs...
Not really though, because the steps forward could be relatively larger than the setbacks (or steps back).
I agree with most of your post.
But this part "Depends on the relative size of the steps." seems to be splitting hairs...
Either you are being sarcastic, intentionally obtuse or you are not familiar with the common phrase " Take one step forward and two steps back".
Bullshit.....bullshit....bullshit. Once again you use lies to justify your warped rantings. No store cameras captures John doing anything you said. In fact they found some white guy made a crank call to get police to the scene. He had his back turned to police on a phone call and did not hear any commands from them. Once again some white person makes a complaint and everyone assumes the black guy is guilty instead of properly assessing the situation. Charges were considered against the 911 called for making a false call.No. You didn't at all make a single comparative example.
John Crawford III was waving a gun around in public, poking objects in an isle and loading BB's in a gun which to a person standing away may not realize that it is a BB gun. If you have a realistic looking gun and in an environment where people don't typically wave guns around, expect people to reasonably be afraid of those actions. While it was a horrible tragedy overall, it was a not without fault to the actions of John.
Tamir Rice was again pointing a replica gun at people in a park. Again when you point guns at things with your hand on the grip and finger on the trigger, even if they are toy guns, if the guns look real people are going to be reasonably scared.
The mere act of holding a gun, not brandishing, in an open carry legal area cannot legally be considered a threat. Again that has been ruled upon. However, BRANDISHING can be. There is legit reasons to brandish a gun so doing so is not automatically illegal. Local laws typically state how escalation of force with a firearm is legally allowed.
So evidence came out in court that Travis pointed his gun first. Turns out there was some additional camera footage showing an angle we, the public, hadn't seen before and the defense lawyer admits in court. So basically the McMichael's escalated the use of deadly force first. Their only prayer is that they had a right to citizen's arrest which allowed them to use force first because they were stopping someone who they reasonably believed to have done a felony. Since they didn't witness anything directly, or even get info from someone else about one they are done for. They can't reasonably infer from someone pointing at Ahmaud running down the street that he committed a felony even if they knew there had been burglaries in the area previously. That is not a reasonable deduction to make at that moment. The defense is resting on convincing a jury that somehow that inference was reasonable for anyone to come to that conclusion and I just don't see that happening at all.
Bullshit.....bullshit....bullshit. Once again you use lies to justify your warped rantings. No store cameras captures John doing anything you said. In fact they found some white guy made a crank call to get police to the scene. He had his back turned to police on a phone call and did not hear any commands from them. Once again some white person makes a complaint and everyone assumes the black guy is guilty instead of properly assessing the situation. Charges were considered against the 911 called for making a false call.
He was NOT pointing the gun at people and children. He was NOT loading it. Once again black=guilty. Meanwhile KR ACTUALLY SHOT AND KILLED PEOPLE and was allowed to walk right by police when they were told he was a shooter.
911 Caller Will Not Be Charged For Giving Cops Bad Info Before Fatal Police Shooting | HuffPost Communities
As for Tamir Rice he was pointing the gun but no evidence he was pointing the toy gun at people. Video just shows him pointing it. Once again no assessment by police and they killed Tamir in <2 seconds. Meanwhile KR walked right by police after killing people and others in the crowd confirming but I guess the police didn't "look" like someone would commit a crime.
CLIP: Tamir Rice waving toy gun before police arrive - YouTube
These are DIRECT comparisons to how police treat a white person with a gun vs black people. No assessment just shoot to kill. The white guy? We'll just let him slide by.
Even should they have a reason to attempt citizens arrest, does an unprovoked aggravated assault get overlooked as a means to accomplish it?
The police that encountered Kyle testified that they felt he was a threat and the officer on the passenger side pepper sprayed Kyle because he didn’t follow their instructions. He (Kyle) also alternated between holding up his hands (never higher than shoulder leve)l and back to hands on weapon while approaching the police.WTF are you spewing still?
John Crawford Video
The whole time he in that isle the idiot has his hand on the grip of the gun waving it around animatedly while on the phone. He uses the barrel to poke at items on the shelf and swings it around in all sorts of directions. While John doesn't actually point directly at one in what I would call a threatening manner, there are a crap ton of people with real gun phobias that would see his actions in a different light. It wasn't a crank call. Richie Ronald called the cops because he saw someone waving what he thought was a gun around the store. He said pointing it at people, but we don't know exactly what he saw from his vantage point in the store. When John was poking at things on the shelf with the gun, Ritchie could have easily thought he was pointing at someone then if his vantage was different to make him think that. You can also see in the video that he was trying to load the gun with BBs he just bought. It was also part of the official report as he literally just bought them to do it. That happens at 1:20 in the video I linked above. If you were to ask me if the police acted too fast, I would agree to an extent. However, the officers reacted in the same time frame that the officer who shot Ma'Khia Bryant had time to react to prevent her from stabbing someone else with a knife.
As for Tamir, what level of devil's lettuce are you smoking that he wasn't shown pointing the gun at anyone? That blurred out portion of the video you linked is a PERSON. From the get go he has the gun in hand and pointed in the person. At the end of the walk he actually takes a shooting stance with the gun. You are so intellectually dishonest that you can't even see what is right in front of your eyes with the video you linked.
Rittenhouse walked up to police with hands in the air and wasn't presenting himself as a threat. John Crawford had gun in hand and swinging it around when they showed up. Tamir Rice video seems to show Tamir raising his shirt and reaching for his waistband when the cops arrive. While the resolution of the video is hard to make that a 100% determination, that is also what the officers said on scene. Sorry for you, people are presumed innocent and given benefit of the doubt in our legal system. Video seems to corroborate what the police said in both the Tamir Rice and John Crawford case. Again, I think the police could have done a better job and spent an extra second trying to assess the situation more, but cops are trained to reach on muscle memory with only a moment to make a decision. Which is why they have qualified immunity and their standards are usually related to reasonableness that other COPS would have and not the general public.
You want to talk something actually comparative? Take the situation with Timothy George Simpkins. He shot 4 people in a shoot and gave himself over to the police. He wasn't shot or killed like Kyle because he wasn't being a threat in the presence of the police.
The police that encountered Kyle testified that they felt he was a threat and the officer on the passenger side pepper sprayed Kyle because he didn’t follow their instructions.
Nope, you obviously have not been watching every day of the trial, I have. This occurred when Kyle was supposedly surrendering to police, he never raised his hands above his head at any point while approaching police.He was surrounded by protesters at the time and that was before the shooting. They pepper sprayed lots of people.
Nope, you obviously have not been watching every day of the trial, I have. This occurred when Kyle was supposedly surrendering to police, he never raised his hands above his head at any point while approaching police.
You claimed he pointed the gun at people, he didn't. The article I linked considered charging the 911 caller with a crime because the stuff he told the police wasn't true. We can't see what he was doing at 1:22 but once again the 911 caller was going to be charged with a false call. The caller accused him of "pointing the gun at 2 children" (4:34) which was a lie. The only thing we can see in the video was JC swinging it back and forth towards the shelf not at anyone.WTF are you spewing still?
John Crawford Video
The whole time he in that isle the idiot has his hand on the grip of the gun waving it around animatedly while on the phone. He uses the barrel to poke at items on the shelf and swings it around in all sorts of directions. While John doesn't actually point directly at one in what I would call a threatening manner, there are a crap ton of people with real gun phobias that would see his actions in a different light. It wasn't a crank call. Richie Ronald called the cops because he saw someone waving what he thought was a gun around the store. He said pointing it at people, but we don't know exactly what he saw from his vantage point in the store. When John was poking at things on the shelf with the gun, Ritchie could have easily thought he was pointing at someone then if his vantage was different to make him think that. You can also see in the video that he was trying to load the gun with BBs he just bought. It was also part of the official report as he literally just bought them to do it. That happens at 1:20 in the video I linked above. If you were to ask me if the police acted too fast, I would agree to an extent. However, the officers reacted in the same time frame that the officer who shot Ma'Khia Bryant had time to react to prevent her from stabbing someone else with a knife.
As for Tamir, what level of devil's lettuce are you smoking that he wasn't shown pointing the gun at anyone? That blurred out portion of the video you linked is a PERSON. From the get go he has the gun in hand and pointed in the person. At the end of the walk he actually takes a shooting stance with the gun. You are so intellectually dishonest that you can't even see what is right in front of your eyes with the video you linked.
Rittenhouse walked up to police with hands in the air and wasn't presenting himself as a threat. John Crawford had gun in hand and swinging it around when they showed up. Tamir Rice video seems to show Tamir raising his shirt and reaching for his waistband when the cops arrive. While the resolution of the video is hard to make that a 100% determination, that is also what the officers said on scene. Sorry for you, people are presumed innocent and given benefit of the doubt in our legal system. Video seems to corroborate what the police said in both the Tamir Rice and John Crawford case. Again, I think the police could have done a better job and spent an extra second trying to assess the situation more, but cops are trained to reach on muscle memory with only a moment to make a decision. Which is why they have qualified immunity and their standards are usually related to reasonableness that other COPS would have and not the general public.
You want to talk something actually comparative? Take the situation with Timothy George Simpkins. He shot 4 people in a shoot and gave himself over to the police. He wasn't shot or killed like Kyle because he wasn't being a threat in the presence of the police.
An Ohio judge found probable cause this week to charge the man whose 911 call led to police officers storming a Walmart and fatally shooting 22-year-old John Crawford III.
The caller, Ronald T. Ritchie, told dispatchers in August 2014 that a black shopper was menacing people with a rifle in the Beavercreek store. However, Crawford was carrying an unloaded airsoft rifle -- a toy that he had picked up in the store -- and talking to his pregnant girlfriend on a cell phone at the time of his death.
Ritchie faces a potential charge of making false alarms for reporting threatening behavior that appears to have been misleading to police. The first-degree misdemeanor carries a maximum of six months in jail and a $1,000 fine. It is now up to prosecutors to decide whether to officially indict Ritchie.
Fairborn Municipal Court Judge Beth Root's decision came weeks after a group of activists filed affidavits claiming Crawford wouldn't have been killed without Ritchie's involvement. They also noted that another shopper, 37-year-old Angela Williams, suffered a medical emergency while fleeing the store and died shortly after the shooting.
Along with their complaints, the group submitted a video that synced audio of Ritchie's 911 call with surveillance footage from Walmart cameras. In it, Crawford can be seen looking at items on a shelf while casually swinging the toy pellet gun. At one point, Ritchie tells dispatchers that Crawford appears to be loading his gun. At another, he says Crawford is pointing the weapon at children.
You claimed he pointed the gun at people, he didn't. The article I linked considered charging the 911 caller with a crime because the stuff he told the police wasn't true. We can't see what he was doing at 1:22 but once again the 911 caller was going to be charged with a false call. The caller accused him of "pointing the gun at 2 children" (4:34) which was a lie. The only thing we can see in the video was JC swinging it back and forth towards the shelf not at anyone.
If you are not lying again then why were they going to charge the caller for giving the police bad information?
Maybe your reading skills are lacking, you are just dishonest or stupid but you may want to read the article again.
Tamir Rice watch the clip again. The person was out of the shot so we don't know if Tamir was pointing at them or not. If Tamir was so interested in point guns at people he could have done it while they were next to him. Also on the Rice 911 call the caller said he thought the gun was a toy. You don't think that bit of information warranted an assessment by the cops? They just pulled up and shot Tamir in <2 seconds.
The one thing we can see you will lie about things right in front of your fucking face. That's why you still think Jan 6 wasn't an insurrection. I go on evidence.
Are you denying that KR lowers his hands back to the rifle and back in the air multiple times? Go watch the actual trial footage and listen to the police who felt threatened by him as he approached their car, not someone on youtube giving their biased, opinionated narrative.What the fuck are you talking about?
He is literally waving with his hands in the air after the shooting as he is approaching police. Even NBC says this.
Move to 3:50 in the video above. Are you actually watching the trial? Your statement above with an easy video link I just posted says otherwise.
If you are stopping a felony or attempting to stop someone who committed a felony in Georgia, then use of force is legally justified. This is also the case in most states.