Tricks to install electrical outlet in existing run?

[Greenman]

While you wouldn't expect a larger appliance in a bedroom, for example, 19 below zero the other night. My wife and I put an oscillating 1500 watt heater in the bedroom. Normally it's cooler in the bedroom. It was see your breath until that heater was in there. That 1500 watt heater would have been enough to trip a 15 amp breaker if we had anything else on in the bedroom. (And my wife then ran a vacuum, which did trip the 20 amp breaker.) :roll:

I don't have an issue with 12 gauge wiring, I just don't see where anyone benefits from it's exclusive use. It's an odd code. Actual electric loads are reducing in new homes because the appliances and lighting are getting more efficient.

You're heater should have worked just fine on a 15 amp breaker. I'm also going to blow my own horn and say that if I built your house, the bedroom wouldn't be cold. I'd have done a manual j and a manual d to make sure the system worked.

 

[Zorba]

I don't have an issue with 12 gauge wiring, I just don't see where anyone benefits from it's exclusive use. It's an odd code. Actual electric loads are reducing in new homes because the appliances and lighting are getting more efficient.

You're heater should have worked just fine on a 15 amp breaker. I'm also going to blow my own horn and say that if I built your house, the bedroom wouldn't be cold. I'd have done a manual j and a manual d to make sure the system worked.

Unfortunately most HVAC contractors seem to have no idea what those are.

 

[Greenman]

Unfortunately most HVAC contractors seem to have no idea what those are.

They use the "that looks about right" method. It works if you oversize the system.

 

[iwajabitw]

They use the "that looks about right" method. It works if you oversize the system.

Yep, they do..Down sized a system after doing the calculations by .5 2 summers ago. Got a call last week from them when it was about 0 outside with the wind chill, not normal in AL. HP was running great but of course long cycles, no real ice on it, keeping the home at 66. What happened since the install is the home owner removed all the carpet through out the home and put glued down 5/16 hardwoods on the slab. Slab exteriors are not insulated by code down hear so nothing I could do. Registers were reading 86 @15degrees outside 66 @ the return. Hardwood temp 58.

Edit: I should have stated the home was 1400sqft and had a 3ton system on it, blower set to high for HP, med for EM heat, restrictive duct work. ESP was 1.2

 

[SparkyJJO]

I only ever use 12 gauge just because there is little reason not to. 20A circuits are the way to go, no worries about loads that way. Only time I may use a 15A/14 gauge wire circuit is for a general lighting circuit. But since I always have 12 gauge wire around those lights are still usually done with that anyway.

I had 14 gauge in my rental and every time the window AC unit kicked on my lights would flicker and the lamp plugged into the same circuit would remained slightly dimmed until the compressor turned back off. I don't care for that kind of voltage drop.

 

[Greenman]

I only ever use 12 gauge just because there is little reason not to. 20A circuits are the way to go, no worries about loads that way. Only time I may use a 15A/14 gauge wire circuit is for a general lighting circuit. But since I always have 12 gauge wire around those lights are still usually done with that anyway.

I had 14 gauge in my rental and every time the window AC unit kicked on my lights would flicker and the lamp plugged into the same circuit would remained slightly dimmed until the compressor turned back off. I don't care for that kind of voltage drop.

The trick is to have a properly designed electrical system, and efficient fixtures/appliances. The place I'm doing now has 30 ceiling lights in it, if they turn them all on it will draw 3.5 amps.

The days of energy sucking homes are past. The place I'm building now has a target heating cost of 25 cents per square foot per year.

 

[Zorba]

The trick is to have a properly designed electrical system, and efficient fixtures/appliances. The place I'm doing now has 30 ceiling lights in it, if they turn them all on it will draw 3.5 amps.

The days of energy sucking homes are past. The place I'm building now has a target heating cost of 25 cents per square foot per year.

The problem is with 14 AWG wire, is you can build a house per code, and still get annoying voltage drops that cause light flicker, etc. Yeah you can get around that, but might as well just use 12 AWG and not worry about.

The only place I think 12 AWG is a waste is on the smoke detector loop, 12/3 is pretty expensive to string all over the house to have basically no load on it.

 

[edro]

The problem is with 14 AWG wire, is you can build a house per code, and still get annoying voltage drops that cause light flicker, etc. Yeah you can get around that, but might as well just use 12 AWG and not worry about.

The only place I think 12 AWG is a waste is on the smoke detector loop, 12/3 is pretty expensive to string all over the house to have basically no load on it.

Why do smoke detectors need 3 conductors?

 

[Greenman]

Why do smoke detectors need 3 conductors?

They're linked. When one goes off it sets the others off by putting voltage to the third wire. I assume you could also connect that wire to a light source for the hearing impaired.

 

[Greenman]

The problem is with 14 AWG wire, is you can build a house per code, and still get annoying voltage drops that cause light flicker, etc. Yeah you can get around that, but might as well just use 12 AWG and not worry about.

The only place I think 12 AWG is a waste is on the smoke detector loop, 12/3 is pretty expensive to string all over the house to have basically no load on it.

Not if it's a properly designed system. All of these arguments can be used to promote the use of #10, or go the other direction and us #16. If you don't overload the circuit, the lights won't dim.

I'd like to know what the logic behind the change was. Someone in Oklahoma decided that 14 gauge wire was inadequate. Of all the different aspects of a single family home one could change, they decided on that. Someone drove that change.
Sometimes things like that change because of a local official. In a town near me smoke detectors as as described in the NEC are forbidden. You have to put in a low voltage system with a commercial grade panel. A system that doesn't meet code anywhere else in CA. That was all driven by the fire chief, I assume he had family in the alarm business.