Trinity review

[ShintaiDK]

While I agree GF execution isn't the best -- Intel's capacity is just larger period. Even if GF execution was perfect they wouldn't be able to produce as much as Intel.

Frankly, Intel enjoys quite the market position at the moment. What really hurts their competitors (AMD, and soon ARM) is that in order to get a decent return on all that capital, they have to sell a lot of units. And in order to sell a lot of units, they have to price low. And if they price low, they're going to start killing competitors who have traditionally relied on hiding in the low-end off...

Right now I think AMD has a great value proposition in their Bobcat and (soon) Trinity APUs. I'm really happy with my DM1z, and I'm really hoping they introduce a DM1z with Trinity (they currently offer a higher-end one with an i3). That would be a fantastic laptop for lots of common productivity tasks. The hope is that if AMD continues to sell as many 32nm chips as GF can produce, that will give AMD enough $$$ to invest in R&D, and it will also give GF enough $$$ to invest in R&D and additional production capacity down the road.

Rory kinda showed us the way. The future is Brazos and Trinity. It cant be long till the FX and Opteron lines are EOLed so AMD can focus on what they are still good at.

Also AMD is looking at TSMC. I think the AMD+GF relationship is over. AMD payed GF to get out of the fixed contract because it hurts AMD. Thats not something they did for fun and jiggles.

So as I see it, AMD goes on in the lower segments they now target and GF is becoming the continual joke of the foundry business. While TSMC got a new large customer in the form of AMD.

And unlike GF, TSMC got both the expertice, power and money to do the R&D. TSMC is multiple times bigger than GF. And we all know being small means you die soon in this business.

 

[Phynaz]

Why? The guy purposely starts arguments and clutters up every AMD thread.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Especially hate speech.

 

[ShintaiDK]

It seems its the CPU clock that pushes some Trinity editions from 65W to 100W TDP. 200Mhz higher dualmodule CPU to push it there. I wonder what results would be if that TDP was given to the GPU instead. It would have been nice to see a Trinity GPU paired with an X2 instead.

 

[Olikan]

Trinity TABLET

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/06/amd-shows-off-its-first-windows-8-concept-tablet-at-computex-201/

 

[podspi]

Rory kinda showed us the way. The future is Brazos and Trinity. It cant be long till the FX and Opteron lines are EOLed so AMD can focus on what they are still good at.

Also AMD is looking at TSMC. I think the AMD+GF relationship is over. AMD payed GF to get out of the fixed contract because it hurts AMD. Thats not something they did for fun and jiggles.

So as I see it, AMD goes on in the lower segments they now target and GF is becoming the continual joke of the foundry business. While TSMC got a new large customer in the form of AMD.

And unlike GF, TSMC got both the expertice, power and money to do the R&D. TSMC is multiple times bigger than GF. And we all know being small means you die soon in this business.

I disagree, but only because I don't think TSMC is going to have enough 28nm capacity, and GF is building a brand new fab in NY for that and smaller nodes. Hopefully GF can get their act together as AMD seems to be doing. It looks like the companies may really be stronger apart than they were together.

 

[Phynaz]

you've sure managed to kill off interest and participation on forums around the net!

Oh, I dunno, I see the regulars doing their usual at the Zone. Nice to know though that a few posters here have somehow gained the power to shutdown discussions net-wide.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I disagree, but only because I don't think TSMC is going to have enough 28nm capacity, and GF is building a brand new fab in NY for that and smaller nodes. Hopefully GF can get their act together as AMD seems to be doing. It looks like the companies may really be stronger apart than they were together.

TSMCs Fab12+15 alone is bigger than GFs entire operation. GF is just so tiny compared. Fab12 and Fab15 is also TSMCs socalled GigaFabs. Not to mention that one of these fabs makes the same revenue as GFs entire operation.

TSMC is roughly 5 times bigger than GF.

AMDs next CPUs in the Llano/Trinity and Brazos lines looks to be 28nm TSMC made.

 

[Riek]

It seems its the CPU clock that pushes some Trinity editions from 65W to 100W TDP. 200Mhz higher dualmodule CPU to push it there. I wonder what results would be if that TDP was given to the GPU instead. It would have been nice to see a Trinity GPU paired with an X2 instead.

actually that is 400MHz higher + a little on the gpu side + unlocked version.

Additional TDP could be for yield reasons ofcourse. Although Bulldozer and llano ha
d the similar issue (kuch gate first 32nm process kuch) where the voltage needed to be bumped alot for higher frequencies. Don't think that part of the process will ever be completely fixed though. It does look better than bulldozer to some extend so we can be happy for those improvements at least.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Arh true. My mistake. I was looking at the turbomodes. But 3.8Ghz baseline for the best SKU. And it was 3.0Ghz for a real quadcore Llano.

Unless PD uarch really improves. Then it looks to get less than pretty. When you compare the FX-4100 and A8-3850.

 

[AtenRa]

AMDs next CPUs in the Llano/Trinity and Brazos lines looks to be 28nm TSMC made.

Brazos 2.0 is a 40nm TSMC and it seams that next gen entry level APUs will be made at TSMCs 28nm but i doubt Kaveri will be made outside GF.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Brazos 2.0 is a 40nm TSMC and it seams that next gen entry level APUs will be made at TSMCs 28nm but i doubt Kaveri will be made outside GF.

Kaveri will be 28nm. Same as Brazos 3.0. But the FX CPU will be 32nm. So seems GF gets the FX CPU and TSMC the other 2.

 

[podspi]

TSMCs Fab12+15 alone is bigger than GFs entire operation. GF is just so tiny compared. Fab12 and Fab15 is also TSMCs socalled GigaFabs. Not to mention that one of these fabs makes the same revenue as GFs entire operation.

TSMC is roughly 5 times bigger than GF.

AMDs next CPUs in the Llano/Trinity and Brazos lines looks to be 28nm TSMC made.

Very true. But compare 28nm GF customers (nobody, except AMD) vs TSMC customers (almost everybody else, minus Samsung and I think Apple for now).

Also:

http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...OUNDRIES-Dresden-Fab-Ships-250000th-32nm-HKMG

“In just one quarter, we were able to see more than a doubling of yields on 32nm, allowing us to exit 2011 having exceeded our 32nm product shipment requirements. Based on this successful ramp of 32nm HKMG, we are committed to moving ahead on 28nm with GLOBALFOUNDRIES.”

Also, using multiple fabs puts AMD in a much better negotiating position.

 

[Vesku]

Didn't Qualcomm shift to 28nm GF? Kaveri on TSMC 28nm will be interesting, if true, I would expect lower leakage so lower power per clock but perhaps lower clocks before hitting the voltage wall. OEMs might finally show AMD a bit of love.

Very true. But compare 28nm GF customers (nobody, except AMD) vs TSMC customers (almost everybody else, minus Samsung and I think Apple for now).

Also:

http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...OUNDRIES-Dresden-Fab-Ships-250000th-32nm-HKMG



Also, using multiple fabs puts AMD in a much better negotiating position.

 

[Olikan]

Didn't Qualcomm shift to 28nm GF? Kaveri on TSMC 28nm will be interesting, if true, I would expect lower leakage so lower power per clock but perhaps lower clocks before hitting the voltage wall. OEMs might finally show AMD a bit of love.

there is a rumor, that they will....another rumor is that the next xbox will be made at GF too...

 

[AtenRa]

Kaveri will be 28nm. Same as Brazos 3.0. But the FX CPU will be 32nm. So seems GF gets the FX CPU and TSMC the other 2.

Where have you seen that Steamroller will be 32nm ??? Also where have you seen that Kaveri will be manufactured at TSMC ???

 

[ShintaiDK]

Where have you seen that Steamroller will be 32nm ??? Also where have you seen that Kaveri will be manufactured at TSMC ???

Its not Steamroller FX.

There might not even be a Steamroller FX....

AMD didnt pay a huge sum of money to get out of the contract with GF. Just to continue to produce at GF

 

[podspi]

They paid to end their exclusivity agreement. Also it is disheartening to see no Steamroller FX-line on the roadmaps...

 

[blckgrffn]

They paid to end their exclusivity agreement. Also it is disheartening to see no Steamroller FX-line on the roadmaps...

I am hoping it is the same as Trinity in that we'll see a mainstream/notebook focused APU first and the FX later.

Which is not to say the FX and APU will be mutually exclusive.

It also makes a lot of sense (to me!) that we'll only see APUs in the future. If AMD really wants to leverage them, the GPU portion needs to be ubiquitous. There is going to be needs on the server side for virtualized GPUs, scientific crunching, etc. especially by 2013/2014.

Intel puts a GPU on nearly every chip, given that is AMD's (arguably) strongest differentiator, I would expect to see them pushing theirs into "unusual" spaces.

 

[lifeblood]

Kaveri will be 28nm. Same as Brazos 3.0. But the FX CPU will be 32nm. So seems GF gets the FX CPU and TSMC the other 2.

Remember, GF has only ever made CPU's while TSMC makes all of ATI/AMDs GPUs plus other companies CPU. AMD has always designed its GPUs to be made by TSMC and it would take a lot of time and work to redesign them for GFs process. AMD already had to do a lot of work (9 months worth according to Rory) to modify the CPU design to TSMCs process so it makes sense that TSMC makes their APUs while GF makes the FX (CPU only) chips.

 

[podspi]

I am hoping it is the same as Trinity in that we'll see a mainstream/notebook focused APU first and the FX later.

Which is not to say the FX and APU will be mutually exclusive.

It also makes a lot of sense (to me!) that we'll only see APUs in the future. If AMD really wants to leverage them, the GPU portion needs to be ubiquitous. There is going to be needs on the server side for virtualized GPUs, scientific crunching, etc. especially by 2013/2014.

Intel puts a GPU on nearly every chip, given that is AMD's (arguably) strongest differentiator, I would expect to see them pushing theirs into "unusual" spaces.

Perhaps. I'd still like to see an FX-line w/out IGP, just as many don't want the IGP on Intel CPUs. One thing that will be interesting is how GPGPU performance differs between APUs and CPU+GPUs. If you can get better performance having them as separate units, then it would be worth it to me to keep the option of buying them separately.

Remember, GF has only ever made CPU's while TSMC makes all of ATI/AMDs GPUs plus other companies CPU. AMD has always designed its GPUs to be made by TSMC and it would take a lot of time and work to redesign them for GFs process. AMD already had to do a lot of work (9 months worth according to Rory) to modify the CPU design to TSMCs process so it makes sense that TSMC makes their APUs while GF makes the FX (CPU only) chips.

That's actually a great point. It makes a lot of sense to make the APUs @ TSMC. That doesn't bode well for GF though if AMD is moving more towards APUs than CPUs...

 

[piesquared]

Trinity laptops starting to emerge.

Awesome MSI gaming laptop and a Samsung Ultrathin shown here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNI69GZSbVI&feature=player_detailpage

 

[frozentundra123456]

Trinity laptops starting to emerge.

Awesome MSI gaming laptop and a Samsung Ultrathin shown here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNI69GZSbVI&feature=player_detailpage

Well, they look nice, but how do you know how "awesome" they are? They didnt actually show any gameplay footage or give any benchmarks. I do believe trinity could be nice in an ultrathin, but for "gaming" it is still very marginal, although better than HD4000. For a true "gaming" laptop, give me an Intel CPU and a discrete card.

 

[piesquared]

Well here's a hint: how many AMD gaming laptops have been featured over the past several years?

 

[computerparts1]

I do believe trinity could be nice in an ultrathin, but for "gaming" it is still very marginal, although better than HD4000. For a true "gaming" laptop, give me an Intel CPU and a discrete card.

And the $1000 price tag along with it.

 

[Red Hawk]

Well here's a hint: how many AMD gaming laptops have been featured over the past several years?

AMD as in graphics, or AMD as in processors? APUs are still a ways away from powering "featured" gaming laptops without a dedicated GPU, and if you're getting a dedicated GPU might as well pair it with a superior Intel processor.