I was trying to install a GFCI outlet for my mom today in her kitchen since she is refinishing her walls and wants the outlets to match the new wall color. I wanted to remove the old outlet and upgrade her to a new GFCI to help protect against shorts and all of that good stuff.
When I opened the old outlet up I found a confusing wiring sitaution. Since I'm not an electrician by any means, I cannot say whether this is common or if this is merely a sign that the house was built 45 years ago and standards weren't as high back then.
Initial Wiring
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The green wires are actually white in real life, but they wouldn't show up too well in a diagram . The red wire is actually red and is the hot wire for this outlet and the one below it apparently.
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Inside the box, I found two hot wires and two white neutral connections. One of the hot wires simply passes through the box to another receptacle while the two neutral connections were connected to the two neutral connections on the outlet.
Before shutting off the power, I checked both connections on the outlet to make sure it was safe. It was a nice surprise to find out when I disconnected one of the grounds that it was sparking against the terminal. The other ground was connected to a circuit that was controlled by another breaker.
Is it normal for two circuits on different breakers to share a similar ground like that? It seems sort of odd. Also, instead of the wires being spliced together with pigtails attaching to the outlet, the insulation was merely stripped in the middle of the wire and wrapped around the appropriate connection. The only wire in which this was not the case was the neutral wire attached to the other receptacle which was an end run to this circuit as you can see in my diagram.
I attempted to wire the new GFCI, but it doesn't seem appropriate for this wiring scheme. You usually have four (or six if you have ground) wires, two for the line and two for the load. I decided to try and wire up the outlet using the obvious line wires and attaching the phantom neutral to the load neutral. Here's a diagram showing all of the wires to hopefully illustrate this craziness.
My GFCI Wiring
This wiring provides current to both the GFCI outlet and the one below it (where the red wire goes to), but the other circuit isn't working. The reset button on the GFCI pops as soon as the power comes on and there's no way to push it back in. I'd imagine this is because the GFCI is working and it trips because it detects there's a difference in potential between the load hot and neutral wires. Why doesn't it cut off power to the entire receptacle then?
I was hoping somebody here might tell me if this is just a case or a horrible wiring design in the 60's gone wrong, me simply wiring the thing incorrectly, or a little of both.
My mom can't really afford an electrician to come out and re-wire this if the wiring is just wack-o, so I guess I just need to know if it's the wiring and I should stick a regular outlet back on there or if I messed up and just need to be smacked and redo it. I'd appreciate any comments any of you can provide. Thanks in advance.
When I opened the old outlet up I found a confusing wiring sitaution. Since I'm not an electrician by any means, I cannot say whether this is common or if this is merely a sign that the house was built 45 years ago and standards weren't as high back then.
Initial Wiring
[edit]
The green wires are actually white in real life, but they wouldn't show up too well in a diagram . The red wire is actually red and is the hot wire for this outlet and the one below it apparently.
[/edit]
Inside the box, I found two hot wires and two white neutral connections. One of the hot wires simply passes through the box to another receptacle while the two neutral connections were connected to the two neutral connections on the outlet.
Before shutting off the power, I checked both connections on the outlet to make sure it was safe. It was a nice surprise to find out when I disconnected one of the grounds that it was sparking against the terminal. The other ground was connected to a circuit that was controlled by another breaker.
Is it normal for two circuits on different breakers to share a similar ground like that? It seems sort of odd. Also, instead of the wires being spliced together with pigtails attaching to the outlet, the insulation was merely stripped in the middle of the wire and wrapped around the appropriate connection. The only wire in which this was not the case was the neutral wire attached to the other receptacle which was an end run to this circuit as you can see in my diagram.
I attempted to wire the new GFCI, but it doesn't seem appropriate for this wiring scheme. You usually have four (or six if you have ground) wires, two for the line and two for the load. I decided to try and wire up the outlet using the obvious line wires and attaching the phantom neutral to the load neutral. Here's a diagram showing all of the wires to hopefully illustrate this craziness.
My GFCI Wiring
This wiring provides current to both the GFCI outlet and the one below it (where the red wire goes to), but the other circuit isn't working. The reset button on the GFCI pops as soon as the power comes on and there's no way to push it back in. I'd imagine this is because the GFCI is working and it trips because it detects there's a difference in potential between the load hot and neutral wires. Why doesn't it cut off power to the entire receptacle then?
I was hoping somebody here might tell me if this is just a case or a horrible wiring design in the 60's gone wrong, me simply wiring the thing incorrectly, or a little of both.
My mom can't really afford an electrician to come out and re-wire this if the wiring is just wack-o, so I guess I just need to know if it's the wiring and I should stick a regular outlet back on there or if I messed up and just need to be smacked and redo it. I'd appreciate any comments any of you can provide. Thanks in advance.