trouble selecting the right gaming PC

[enigmatl]

Hey all. I'm new to the forums but have been visiting this website forever. Up to now, I have never really had any major issues deciding between 2 computers and I was wondering what you guys thought. So when I started shopping a week or so ago, I decided that I wanted to go with a Pentium D based system. Once that was decided, I went out pricing parts - parts you guys are all very familiar with from names like Antec, Asus, ATI, Corsair, Western digital - you know the names. So, I had a nice rig setup and I had it under $1,400. So, after some research, there are some echoings around the net that perhaps we have a problem. Intel says that we should put our Pentium D processors in a BTX cse. I've also heard it said by some friends and some websites that I may experience some major fitting problems if I even tried using an ATX case. So, I resume shopping and am not really able to find many decent cases.

So with that, I'm hearing from some friends who just got home from their local Best Buy store that I should do what they did and get a Gateway Media Center PC GT5014 for $899 and then replace the graphics card. So like what probably quite a few Anandtech users might do, I cringed at the idea. They have a nice case and perhaps one of the only BTX cases that I was able to see but, it's a namebrand computer. What's worse is that it uses a phoenix bios which means I can set the time and date and not a lot else.

So, I want a Pentium D system. I'd very much prefer to built it myself. But, I want it in a good case, a cool case (I guess I mean both the modern meaning of cool and the temporature meaning) and unless you guys have a reason to say otherwise, I'd really hope to have it in a BTX case. Dooes anyone have any suggestions? Should I go with, or avoid the Gateway? Any reasons why/why not? If I should avoid it, are there any good tried and true case/motherboard combos that any of you are having good success with? I haven't seen any Pentium D rigs put together by the editors here or pretty much anywhere else. Any help you guys have would be greatly appreciated as it's very much time for a new computer for me and I really want a Pentium D but I want to get it right.

 

[love2skate824]

I would recommend an AMD X2 system. Blows Pentium D out of the water.

 

[Hypnotics]

Build it and they will come. Building your comp is the only way to FLY. And forget that Pentium crap, Get a AMD X2 and you will be smiling. Check out my system, cost a little more then your budget but just switch out the 7800GTX for a 7800GT and you are good to go.

 

[Boogak]

Any particular reason why you want a Pentium D system for gaming? It's been proven repeatedly that the Athlon 64 architecture is superior for gaming.

 

[enigmatl]

Mainly compatability. I like many people owned an AMD chip during such new product launches as hard drives with faster busses and soforth and they didn't work right til you installed special drivers. (sigh) so is everybody here gonna answer my origional question with "Get AMD."? I've owned them before and I'll own them again but I think I want a Pentium D this time.

 

[interchange]

There aren't any "compatibility" problems with AMD. Now is the time for their processors to shine. You shouldn't even be considering Intel for a gaming computer, especially a custom build and a first build at that where you'll have to worry heavily about cooling and power.

Anyway, to answer your question:
ATX/BTX is not a function of the processor but rather the form factor of the motherboard. BTX is very rare. The motherboard you purchase should indicate its form factor (e.g. on NewEgg). Buy your case accordingly.

 

[Griffinhart]

There is a reason people are saying get the X2 over the P-D. It's just "the right tool for the job."

But, Stay away from the 820. At 2.8Ghz, it will actually slow down gaming performance of modern video boards. 3ghz is the magic number where the CPU doesn't bottleneck the GPU (6800).

The 830 shouldn't have that problem, but, don't expect it to be the best either.

If you reall insist on going for an intel Dual Core, you should get as fast as you can afford, but, even then you won't come close to gaming performance of lower cost Single Core chips. (Even Intel Single Core) The 670, for example, would solidly out game the best P4-D but cost hundreds less.

By comparison, the AMD 4800+ X2, would cost less than the Intel 840EE, but run nearly as fast (in games) as the Fastest Gaming CPU on the market. (FX-57) And, of course, the entry level 3800+ X2 would out game the 840EE at 1/3rd the cost.

So, if this machine is for gaming, you really should strongly consider AMD or you simply won't have "The right gaming PC."

If you really have your heart set in Intel, Go for the 840 or 840EE. Just expect to get smoked by much cheaper Single Core CPU's unless you do some meaningful overclocking. Simply put, the Intel Pentium 4 D series are not great gaming CPU's. Expecially when The p4 670 and the AMD 3500+ both out game the best P4-D

IMHO, the only Intel Dual core worth anything is the 820 as long as you don't buy it for gaming. It's relatively cheap cost makes it an excellent CPU for multi-threaded desktop apps like Photoshop and Video Encoding.

 

[stevty2889]

Pentium-D and gaming system don't belong in the same sentence..

If you really want a dual core, and you are on a budget, you want the X2 3800+. If you are gaming, you want an AMD based chip. There is a reason why the pentium-d is so cheap, yet not many people build a system with them, and you better be prepared for heat issues, and needing to invest in a quality heatsink. 1 5xx series prescott runs hot enough.

The few pentium-d users we've seen, are reporting load temps around 70c. Slightly higher, you throttle, and lose more performance, on the lowest speed, most underperforming dual core available.

If you are truely stuck on getting Intel, then a faster single core, such as a 3.4 or 3.6 will be far better for gaming that a 820D, because the majority of games, won't even know the second core is there, and you'll be running at the speed of the slowest 800mhz FSB single core for gaming.

 

[Ike0069]

Originally posted by: stevty2889
Pentium-D and gaming system don't belong in the same sentence..

:thumbsup:

Not sure what you are referring to with "compatiblity problems with AMD". I've been using only AMD for years and have yet to run into this problem.

Anyways, as interchange stated, BTX has absolutley nothing to do with the CPU. If the MB you get is ATX, then that means it fits in an ATX case. So just get an ATX MB. Simple.

 

[Markfw]

I have both, and I can honestly say the 820D sucks in every way. I got it dirt cheap on ebay, and now I know why. Its hot, is buggie (won;t maintain 100% usage on F@H like my X2) sluggish in multitasking, slow, and sucks a lot of power. I like the quote :
"Pentium-D and gaming system don't belong in the same sentence.. "

You need to listen this time. Check the CPU forums. One retailer says they have sold over 100 X2's one not a single 820,830 or 840 !

 

[IeraseU]

BTX isnt mainstream yet so it's going to be sort of a pain finding a really good BTX case. My favorite cases are Lian Li and I recomend those without hesitation normally, however I do not believe they have a BTX solution out at the moment. I'd actually say just get an ATX case at this point at BTX is just too new and untested. Wait until the performance case manufacturers jump on the bandwagon and not just the oem builders.

As for building vs buying prebuilt. I personally would build unless the computer was going to do browsing/email/office duty. In which case just grab the cheapest thing that suits your needs. If you're going to be doing something like video editing, encoding or gaming then I would prefer to build at this point as you are not a 'mainstream' user and those prebuilt systems are exactly aimed at 'mainstream average joe'.

Typically a lot of problems with prebuilt systems include proprietary power supplies, and motherboard and case connecters (varies), lack of DIMMS (for ram upgrade, usually 2 instead of 4), locked bios (no overclocking possible at all), and bloatware on the hard drive. They are a good deal for the price certainly, but they arent exactly made for 'power users'.

As for the Pentium D vs. X2.....well I have an X2, but in general I agree with you that an Intel chip plus a motherboard with an intel chipset has over the years given me less 'little glitches'. I've never had a 'major' problem with an AMD processor and a Via or Nforce chipset, but more little 'annoyances' seem to pop up for me (for example, i had problem of computer not waking from standby). I was able to track down a fix for the standby problem, but it did take time and effort. With Intel I have less of these little 'annoyances' although there is no denying the AMD part has more performance and runs cooler. In the end it's your choice. I went with the X2 4400 for the performance, but if I were building for someone that I knew wasnt so computer savy I would put in an Intel cpu just to avoid them calling me every minute over any minor hiccups which may occur with the AMD chip (for instance, the recent windows hotfix for X2 when cool and quiet is enabled). As for which Pentium D, I like the 830 personally. Go with aftermarket cooling, as these chips do run quite hot.

 

[Some1ne]

I would recommend an AMD X2 system. Blows Pentium D out of the water.

 

[DaveSimmons]

I am using a P4 3.2C in my main desktop and am happy with it. I would not get a P4 dualie for gaming, I'd get an A64.

intel might be good again late next year when they throw away the P4 line in favor of cool-running Pentium M based processors, until then I can't recommend them for most applications, especially gaming.

Prescott was a second-rate design (hot and slow) compared to the P4C, and intel engineers have admitted the dual version was a hack job slapped together to compete with A64 X2.

So with that, I'm hearing from some friends who just got home from their local Best Buy store that I should do what they did and get a Gateway Media Center PC GT5014 for $899 and then replace the graphics card. So like what probably quite a few Anandtech users might do, I cringed at the idea.

We feel the same way when you talk about buying a slow and hot P4 dualie for gaming.

Annie Vader: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Fern]

Hi enigmatl and Welcome ot the Forums!

so is everybody here gonna answer my origional question with "Get AMD."?

In all sincerity "yes". I'd suggest relooking at the CPU choice. I was reluctant to switch to AMD a few years ago but am really, really happy I did.

Since switching I've had NO compatibility problems, no need for "special" drivers etc at all. My employees with the "cheap" and lower rated AMD rigs are delighted that their machines are faster then the one's with the higher Intel CPU's.

Things change (shrugs), it's all AMD for me now. At least until they change again

Fern

 

[Capt Caveman]

Gaming and dual core? AMD. I switched from Intel to AMD b/c Intel Dual-cores stink and don't even compare to AMD's X2. You'll be making a huge mistake if you go Intel. Maybe, next year when their Yonah's come out but right now. Stay away from Intel Pentium D's.

 

[ElTorrente]

For the love of God, don't get a Pentium for gaming.

 

[sandorski]

Their are no "Special Drivers", just Drivers. All systems need and use Drivers, even Intel systems.

 

[eastvillager]

People just won't forget the days of crappy Via chipsets and the early athlons.

The compatibility issues have never been with the processor, it has always been with the chipset. At this point in time, I don't think there is a better chipset for the enthusiast than the nf4 ultra, at least when talking workstations and not servers.

Stop dragging out old Via baggage and heaping it on AMD, those days are LONG gone.

Pentium D makes no sense for a gaming rig though, as others have said.

 

[d2arcturus]

Originally posted by: ElTorrente
For the love of God, don't get a Pentium for gaming.

 

[enigmatl]

Ok. Researching AMD rigs.

 

[enigmatl]

Ok so I'm taking a serious look after seeing some benchmarks. Those gaming scores I'm seeing are a little foul.

 

[ribbon13]

AMD. No need for BTX with AMD. BTX is just being pushed because of Intel's shortcomings in creating more of a silicon heating element than a processor.

If you want a simple case thats quiet, cheap, and gets the job done here

as for the total budget, 1400 including display?

 

[paulw86]

yea I used to be one of those people who'd go intel any day...it's all over now though =)

 

[Epsil0n00]

This is so sad... I am helping someone pick out a Dell desktop and I know they would get a much better buy if they had the option of going with an AMD proc... but sadly, Dell only builds desktops with Intel procs.

I kept looking at Anandtech's front page and Tom's Hardware and I couldn't figure out why there were no current reviews of the latest Pentium D procs... looks like there are no reviews because the Pentium Ds suck.

 

[cessation]

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2410&p=7

eeewww