trouble with 8 year old

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Wingznut
Where do you suppose he learned to call his mom such a thing?

(Btw, are you the bio-dad?... Married to his mom?)

You'd be suprised at the language kids these days use in school.

I have two boys, ages 7 and 10.

If he is learning this from his school, then a change is needed immediately. But I think you should look at this a bit closer... An 8 year-old doesn't learn to be agressive and disrespectful to his mother from school. At that age, they are basically mama's boy and want to do ANYTHING to please her.

I respect your opinion as a parent. And I respect your stance on the issue of not using physical means to discipline a child However, I have a different opinion as being an older brother and raised in a very strict household concerning cursing. I was spanked when I acted out when I was younger, yet I didn't have hand problems, or was overly aggressive growing up.

I actually had to deal with this with my younger brother when I was 12 (he was 8 at the time). No one in my family ever cursed at my parents. You simply did not use that kind of language in the house, and everyone knew that. If you did, you'd get a bar of soap in your mouth.

Yet one day, my brother came home, got angry, and called my mother a b!tch. You can bet my mom was mighty pissed at this. Open mouth, insert soap. No Nintendo for 3 weeks. There was no way he heard this language from my parents, and no reason he should've ever used it. He was probably trying to be cool like one of his friends who used it, and just didn't know any better.

That's my 2 cents as a brother, not a parent.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: mobobuff
After the age of 5, kids just need to be spanked sometimes.

Absolutely, unequivocally, wrong. Kids do not NEED to be spanked.

That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

 

[Lorn]

...a child that doesn't know any better...

You said it yourself. So by your standards, at the first step, it is okay to physically and emotionally harm someone for wrongs commited when they don't know any better. And I'm the one that should seek help? You should seek heil.

 

[lavagirl669]

You did the right thing.

Kids need to learn to NEVER disrespect their Mothers, especially boys.

Call that old school, but its important

 

[Kipper]

Originally posted by: mobobuff
I got whipped on the ass with a wooden spoon with a very long handle when I did something wrong as a kid. It hurt, sure, but it wasn't anything that wouldn't go away in 10 minutes. The pain of knowing I did something wrong didn't go away until I apologized, and I never did anything like that again. I like to think that I turned out to be a great person, nice and fair to others with no resentment towards my parents at all. If all I'd gotten was "a stern talking to", I don't know if I'd still be this way. I might admire my parents less today because they didn't take that position and let me know directly that I screwed up.

After the age of 5, kids just need to be spanked sometimes. They don't always understand emotional hurt, but they DO understand physical hurt. It gives them something to relate it to.

Oh, and I knew what the term "bitch" ment when I was 3 years old, but I never called my mother one.

Oh believe me, children KNOW when they are being neglected. Don't tell me that children don't understand what it is to be injured emotionally. Like any person, they carry resentments...that sometimes flood over into adulthood.

 

[Wingznut]

Think about this very logically with an open mind...

Kid calls his mom a bitch. Kid is 8 and doesn't truly understand how bad it is to disrespect his parent, or why it is so important not to do so.

"Quick, HIT HIM!!!"

Seriously. That's entirely absurd.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: NOLOVE

...a child that doesn't know any better...

You said it yourself. So by your standards, at the first step, it is okay to physically and emotionally harm someone for wrongs commited when they don't know any better. And I'm the one that should seek help? You should seek heil.

So do you think that a child would have the mental capacity to completely understand what a parent feels like when they call them a b!tch or a bast@rd? You think a child is developed mentally and emotionally enough to know what that does to a parent?

There are arguments for both sides, using physical force as a discipline, and not using it. Like I said, I do not condone beating a child. But sometimes, a spanking is neccessary. When a child does not have the capacity to understand, and keeps repeating a behavior, what do you do?

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Wingznut
Think about this very logically with an open mind...

Kid calls his mom a bitch. Kid is 8 and doesn't truly understand how bad it is to disrespect his parent, or why it is so important not to do so.

"Quick, HIT HIM!!!"

Seriously. That's entirely absurd.

Wingnutz, it's not like that and you know it. Instead of "quick hit him", the parent should try all other means possible to get the kid to understand, but sometimes it may be neccessary to spank a child, IMHO. Nobody said turn to violence in every instance.

 

[Kipper]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: NOLOVE

...a child that doesn't know any better...

You said it yourself. So by your standards, at the first step, it is okay to physically and emotionally harm someone for wrongs commited when they don't know any better. And I'm the one that should seek help? You should seek heil.

So do you think that a child would have the mental capacity to completely understand what a parent feels like when they call them a b!tch or a bast@rd? You think a child is developed mentally and emotionally enough to know what that does to a parent?

There are arguments for both sides, using physical force as a discipline, and not using it. Like I said, I do not condone beating a child. But sometimes, a spanking is neccessary. When a child does not have the capacity to understand, and keeps repeating a behavior, what do you do?

Mistake #1: Assuming the child doesn't have the capacity to understand.
Mistake #2: Assuming that the repetitive behavior is the child's fault.
Mistake #3: Assuming that hitting the child solves the problem. Yes, the behavior may disappear but it may manifest itself elsewhere. You don't get to the root of the problem by hitting the kid.
Mistake #4: Assuming that the parent isn't at fault as well.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: BigJ
So do you think that a child would have the mental capacity to completely understand what a parent feels like when they call them a b!tch or a bast@rd? You think a child is developed mentally and emotionally enough to know what that does to a parent?

At 8 years old??? ABSOLUTELY! Kids aren't stupid.

Not only that, but it's not about "what that does to a parent" or "what a parent feels like"... It's not about the parents' feelings at all. It's not about the parent at all.

 

[mobobuff]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: mobobuff
After the age of 5, kids just need to be spanked sometimes.

Absolutely, unequivocally, wrong. Kids do not NEED to be spanked.

That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

*shrug* Different strokes. But you seem to be confusing me with the thought that you can just spank your child whenever it pleases you. I'm advocating the opposite. Spanking should be a last resort, and the child should know that they are still loved, but what they did has consequences.

Maybe the times are different from when I was that age, but "a talking to" no matter how meaningful never got the message across. At a mature age, talking is very effective, but children are sometimes not equiped to understand emotions, or to take them seriously.

But again, spanking should be the very last resort. After everything has failed and there has been plenty of "let it sink in" time.

 

[Lorn]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: NOLOVE

...a child that doesn't know any better...

You said it yourself. So by your standards, at the first step, it is okay to physically and emotionally harm someone for wrongs commited when they don't know any better. And I'm the one that should seek help? You should seek heil.

So do you think that a child would have the mental capacity to completely understand what a parent feels like when they call them a b!tch or a bast@rd? You think a child is developed mentally and emotionally enough to know what that does to a parent?

There are arguments for both sides, using physical force as a discipline, and not using it. Like I said, I do not condone beating a child. But sometimes, a spanking is neccessary. When a child does not have the capacity to understand, and keeps repeating a behavior, what do you do?

There has been no mention of 'capacity of understanding' in this topic. There has been no mention of 'repeating a behavior'. The kid called his mom a bitch because he learned it from parents/tv/school and the first move was to get his "ass beat up (spanked hard)".

 

[mobobuff]

Originally posted by: MadCowDisease

Originally posted by: mobobuff
I got whipped on the ass with a wooden spoon with a very long handle when I did something wrong as a kid. It hurt, sure, but it wasn't anything that wouldn't go away in 10 minutes. The pain of knowing I did something wrong didn't go away until I apologized, and I never did anything like that again. I like to think that I turned out to be a great person, nice and fair to others with no resentment towards my parents at all. If all I'd gotten was "a stern talking to", I don't know if I'd still be this way. I might admire my parents less today because they didn't take that position and let me know directly that I screwed up.

After the age of 5, kids just need to be spanked sometimes. They don't always understand emotional hurt, but they DO understand physical hurt. It gives them something to relate it to.

Oh, and I knew what the term "bitch" ment when I was 3 years old, but I never called my mother one.

Oh believe me, children KNOW when they are being neglected. Don't tell me that children don't understand what it is to be injured emotionally. Like any person, they carry resentments...that sometimes flood over into adulthood.

No. Absolutely not. Nothing will piss your child off more than the silent treatment. The first few times they might feel neglected or alone, sure. But repeat silent-treatments always made me want revenge, not affection. The silent treatment is worse than a spanking in my book. A spanking to me showed they cared enough to directly confront the situation, and I only respected them for it. I love my parents today, no resentment "carried over".

 

[Wag]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Wag

Originally posted by: blodhi74
today my 8 year old got his ass beat up (spanked hard )

I used to work with DSS. You should really think hard about what you're doing. I have to wonder why you're posting it here? You obviously need more help, considering you're posting this in a public forum.

I suggest you try a local parenting or counseling center. There are plenty of them to go around, and they'll work on a sliding scale if you can't afford it.

In colorado spanking is legal. CPS cant do crap to a parent who uses spanking as a form of punishment.

I said since he was asking for help in a public forum, there are local services available to him.

Not sure what kind of help he expects to get from ATOT. Surely, coming on here and saying you spank your child is not going to elicit much sympathy.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: NOLOVE

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: NOLOVE

...a child that doesn't know any better...

You said it yourself. So by your standards, at the first step, it is okay to physically and emotionally harm someone for wrongs commited when they don't know any better. And I'm the one that should seek help? You should seek heil.

So do you think that a child would have the mental capacity to completely understand what a parent feels like when they call them a b!tch or a bast@rd? You think a child is developed mentally and emotionally enough to know what that does to a parent?

There are arguments for both sides, using physical force as a discipline, and not using it. Like I said, I do not condone beating a child. But sometimes, a spanking is neccessary. When a child does not have the capacity to understand, and keeps repeating a behavior, what do you do?

There has been no mention of 'capacity of understanding' in this topic. There has been no mention of 'repeating a behavior'. The kid called his mom a bitch because he learned it from parents/tv/school and the first move was to get his "ass beat up (spanked hard)".

Throughout this thread, all I've been making are generalities. I never said the OP was right for spanking the kid before talking to him, and I never said he was wrong for spanking the kid before talking to him; I said that the OP was alright in using physical punishment as a means of discipline.

 

[judasmachine]

just understand what is going on with the kid. don't ever fear to be a strong parent, but don't ever forget what exactly it was like to be a kid.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: mobobuff
The silent treatment is worse than a spanking in my book.

I agree. Witholding emotions is incredibly cruel.

But still... You can address any situation directly and effectively without resorting to "beating his ass."

 

[Kipper]

Originally posted by: mobobuff

No. Absolutely not. Nothing will piss your child off more than the silent treatment. The first few times they might feel neglected or alone, sure. But repeat silent-treatments always made me want revenge, not affection. The silent treatment is worse than a spanking in my book. A spanking to me showed they cared enough to directly confront the situation, and I only respected them for it. I love my parents today, no resentment "carried over".

Children love their parents no matter what, even if their parents hurt them. Only in certain cases of extreme neglect will a child bear true malice toward the parent. That said, it's interesting how you equivocate physical force to "care." The only "respect" you're going to elicit from a small child if you hit him is the "respect" that a bully elicits from a wimp simply because he's bigger than him.

That said, I have very little respect for an adult who hits a child. Members of the Quaker faith have a history of raising children without resorting to corporal punishment and having met dozens of adults who grew up that way, they do a pretty damn good job.

 

[Conky]

Lock him in the basement. If you don't have a basement a closet will do.

Don't feel bad for spanking him either. He knew it was wrong or he wouldn't have said it to get a rise.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Crazyfool
Don't feel bad for spanking him either. He knew it was wrong or he wouldn't have said it to get a rise.

So, the kid's goal was to get "a rise" from his parents. (Which, btw, I completely agree with.)

But now that the child has received what he was looking for (getting his parents upset), how does this deter him?

Like I was just writing in a pm, this isn't as simple as can be discussed in an ATOT thread. Misbehavior is generally a product of a child seeking attention. Negative attention is better than no attention to him. If you can provide a home where he won't find the need to lash out, you've created an incredible situation.

 

[Dragnov]

Having to use physical punishment is a failure as a parent. What will you do when your child gets a bit older (say junior high) and spanking just wont do anymore? Use a harsher form of physical punishment? Kick him out of the house? He's a CHILD that has to LEARN. So TEACH him, don't HIT him.

Furthermore, your child != you! All because you may have turned out fine, this does not mean your child will. How do you know he/she might not grow up resenting the fact that you had to resort to some form of violence to resolve something. He/she is an entirely different person.

 

[Rainsford]

Disclaimer: I am not a parent, I'm 21 years old

Now that that's out of the way, I'd like to share what I call my perspective on parenting, not learning through my own experiences as a parent (obviously), but through my experiences as a child and as an adult who talks a LOT with my parents. What's the purpose of punishment? Well to make sure your kid doesn't do something again, right? WRONG...you want to teach you kid why they shouldn't do something. And believe it or not, "because you'll get spanked" is not a good answer. I don't mean to sound like a shrink here, but spanking teaches your kid that you make the rules, and he needs to follow them because you are bigger and stronger and you can hurt him if he doesn't. Great lesson if all you care about is your kid not repeating behavior, but it would seem to me that teaching someone good behavior requires helping your kid grow into a person who doesn't do bad things because THEY don't want to.

Like I said, I'm 21 and have no kids, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about...but I will say one thing, my parents weren't big on spanking...in fact, they hardly ever had to punish me at all. Yet I turned out good, better than average as far as behavior goes. I didn't get into trouble in school, I got good grades, and except for one or two times in my whole life, I've never spoken disrespectfully to my parents. And now that I'm out of the house, I still try to live up to that standard of behavior. You know why? Because I respect them and view them as good role models who's example I want to live up to. Growing up, I can't remember a time when I wasn't really proud of having a dad like I did. He is a strong person who always does the right thing, even when it costs him a lot to do so. He works hard, and doesn't half-ass what he does even if he has the opportunity. From him, I learned about ethics and the idea of responsibility and getting the job done. And my mom, I admire her for being a warm, caring person who is always willing to help someone out. She can deal with almost anyone, and is a natural teacher. From her I learned the value of compassion and the importance of being able to talk to people.

When I look at how they raised me, I think about how I hope I'll be as good a parent as they were. So sorry if people saying "sometimes you have to smack your kid to get them to behave" doesn't exactly make my day.

 

[PeteRoy]

What are you beating defenseless kids, take it against someone in your own size, shame on you.

If a kid does something wrong you can punish him in other ways than beatings you smart on small children.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Dragnov
Having to use physical punishment is a failure as a parent. What will you do when your child gets a bit older (say junior high) and spanking just wont do anymore? Use a harsher form of physical punishment? Kick him out of the house? He's a CHILD that has to LEARN. So TEACH him, don't HIT him.

Furthermore, your child != you! All because you may have turned out fine, this does not mean your child will. How do you know he/she might not grow up resenting the fact that you had to resort to some form of violence to resolve something. He/she is an entirely different person.

I agree, and you know what I find interesting, the whole idea of behavior being defined by consequences goes against how good people act. Think about it, I don't rob your house or rape the girl down the hall in my apartment complex because those things are WRONG, not because I would get punished if I got caught. As defined by my moral code, those are things I wouldn't do even if they were legal. Most normal people are the same way.

Now tell me that it's possible to develop moral values because your parents hit you when you did things wrong.

 

[cmdrmoocow]

That certainly qualifies as something that deserves punishment.

Make sure, though, that in the end you go back and let her know exactly why it was wrong - as has already been posted, the reason why they don't want to do things is not 'to not get spanked', but to not do something because it gets people upset.