trouble with 8 year old

[Nocturnal]

Be careful you just admitted to physically beating your son. Someone here may turn you into CPS. You never know who's watching.

 

[aidanjm]

Introducing toxic chemicals to a 4 year old's mouth ("washing mouth out with soap and water") is in my opinion abusive.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Greyd
But, if you knew the state of public schools and the kids today...you would wish parents would spank their kids more.

I have two boys in public schools. But I don't believe public schools are the problem with kids... It's the parents general lack of parenting (involvement) that's the problem. Divorce, daycare, etc. is all taking it's toll. (But that's for another discussion.) Yeah, I really do wish more parents would inflict physical pain (rather than patience, understanding, reasoning, rationale, and teaching) to get them to obey. <That was sarcasm, btw.>

But discipline without spanking for kids under a certain age is no effective.

Complete and utter BS. There are tons and tons of kids out there who are extremely well behaved and respectful, yet have never been hit by their parents. And just the same, there are plenty who have been spanked, yet still lash out. And there are, I'm sure, just as many examples of the absolute reverse situations.(As I've said before, there are many other factors at work here.)
My point is that kids can effectively be taught how and why to behave without hitting them.

IMO it seems that most of the people in this thread who are anti-spanking have gone thorough VERY negative experiences or been a part of them, where the discipline is not discipline at al, rather ABUSE. Just because one parent abuses doesn't mean all parents fo. Again I repeat - there's a HUGE difference between the two.

Not sure how you drew that conclusion since there isn't that kind of evidence in this thread. At any rate, I was not physically abused as a kid. Nor did I have any VERY negative experiences with discipline.

Originally posted by: Greyd
...kids are not as "logical" or "good" as you infer.

Again, I'm shocked (and even moreso saddened) that this statement comes from a teacher.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: aidanjm
Introducing toxic chemicals to a 4 year old's mouth ("washing mouth out with soap and water") is in my opinion abusive.

All it is is having the kid open their mouth and placing a bar of soap in it. It's not like how it is these days with all these liquid soaps and all that crap. Also, it's a technique only administered for cursing.

Sit for 5 minutes, proceed to spit soapy saliva out and rinse mouth out.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: aidanjm
Introducing toxic chemicals to a 4 year old's mouth ("washing mouth out with soap and water") is in my opinion abusive.

Also, it's a technique only administered for cursing.

Why? If it's effective for cursing, why not use it for other issues?

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: aidanjm
Introducing toxic chemicals to a 4 year old's mouth ("washing mouth out with soap and water") is in my opinion abusive.

Also, it's a technique only administered for cursing.

Why? If it's effective for cursing, why not use it for other issues?

It's the whole ideology behind it. "Washing your mouth out with soap, to cleanse the badness that comes out of it." That kinda hub-bub.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: aidanjm
Introducing toxic chemicals to a 4 year old's mouth ("washing mouth out with soap and water") is in my opinion abusive.

Also, it's a technique only administered for cursing.

Why? If it's effective for cursing, why not use it for other issues?

It's the whole ideology behind it. "Washing your mouth out with soap, to cleanse the badness that comes out of it." That kinda hub-bub.

I understand the ideology.... But logically, if it works so well and with no side effects, why use it for only cursing? How about any back talking? Condesending attitute? Rudeness?

My point is that there are techniques such as this, that people use without even asking "why", or if there's a better way.

 

[Cruez]

# 1 yes, I have kids. 2 of them.

# 2 yes, I was spanked. Hands, belts, switches, etc...

# 3 I never was arrested for anything. I turned out to be a productive addition to society.

For me, Spanking is used. If I tell my children something and they directly disobey it, they can expect a spanking, and they know this before the fact.

Lying is one of the things they get spanked for. That is a root cause for many other problems, lying is being dishonest, leading to disrespect and other things.

If it is something that has never come up before, we will have a talk. The next time, the spanking comes right behind.

I, for one, never spank my kids in the heat of the moment. Unless it?s a swat. I will inform them that the spanking will be coming in a little bit, gives them some time to think about what they did.

I have seen kids in stores or malls that are screaming because they aren't getting what they wanted, and you hear the parents say, (in a soft tone) honey, you need to be quiet. I would be taking them back out to the car for a good swat.

As for the b!tch incident. After seeing why he said it, then I would make the determination on the spanking. If he knew he was trying to be hateful and/or disrespectful, I would have spanked and carried out the punishment just as you said.

That is one of the problems today, a large portion of kids have no respect for anyone or anything, due to the fact that their parents did not discipline them.

All children are different, and respond to different types of discipline, and some kids need to be spanked. Period.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Cruez
I have seen kids in stores or malls that are screaming because they aren't getting what they wanted, and you hear the parents say, (in a soft tone) honey, you need to be quiet. I would be taking them back out to the car for a good swat.

I'll just use this one example, but it pretty much applies to any...

So, you don't think your kids can be taught not to behave that way in a store, without the threat of inflicting pain? If not, why do you suppose that is? (i.e. The kids aren't smart enough to understand, they aren't civilized enough, they don't respect you enough to want to please, etc...)

 

[Cruez]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Cruez
I have seen kids in stores or malls that are screaming because they aren't getting what they wanted, and you hear the parents say, (in a soft tone) honey, you need to be quiet. I would be taking them back out to the car for a good swat.

I'll just use this one example, but it pretty much applies to any...

So, you don't think your kids can be taught not to behave that way in a store, without the threat of inflicting pain? If not, why do you suppose that is? (i.e. The kids aren't smart enough to understand, they aren't civilized enough, they don't respect you enough to want to please, etc...)

For one, my children have learned, not to stage a scene like that in public. Because they understand how to "properly act" in public. There is a time and place for everything. If they were to start something like that, I would only have to whisper in their ear and it would stop right then and, if not, they would be expecting the spanking.

The ones I speak of, have had no discipline. Spanking or otherwise.

 

[vood0g]

Originally posted by: Cruez


All children are different, and respond to different types of discipline, and some kids need to be spanked. Period.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Cruez

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Cruez
I have seen kids in stores or malls that are screaming because they aren't getting what they wanted, and you hear the parents say, (in a soft tone) honey, you need to be quiet. I would be taking them back out to the car for a good swat.

I'll just use this one example, but it pretty much applies to any...

So, you don't think your kids can be taught not to behave that way in a store, without the threat of inflicting pain? If not, why do you suppose that is? (i.e. The kids aren't smart enough to understand, they aren't civilized enough, they don't respect you enough to want to please, etc...)

For one, my children have learned, not to stage a scene like that in public. Because they understand how to "properly act" in public. There is a time and place for everything. If they were to start something like that, I would only have to whisper in their ear and it would stop right then and, if not, they would be expecting the spanking.

The ones I speak of, have had no discipline. Spanking or otherwise.

But that doesn't answer the question.

If the only way to convince your child to behave properly (in whatever circumstance) is the threat of pain, why do you think that is? (See above examples of possible, but obviously not the only, reasons.)

vood0g, or anyone else, feel free to answer as well.

 

[vood0g]

because children do not have the full capacity to understand what is right and wrong. i am not calling them dumb or anything, but i hardly believe that a child has my reasoning capabilities. their understanding can only go so far and after that its driven by what they want.

for example, a child wants a toy in the store. you cant get it because either 1) you cant afford it or 2) the child already has it etc...whatever the reason you say no. the child throws a fit, and asks why? you tell him the reason, (you're broke, already have one etc), some may understand some may not. i can bet your ass not all 2 year olds will understand that you being broke or they already have one sitting at home is a valid reason as to why they cant have the toy. so they continue to throw a fit.

like i said before, my children will learn to obey me. they're understanding is still limited. if they understand great! if they dont, they're still at the age where i must make the decisions for them.

 

[SpunkyJones]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Giving in = blood in the water

Dont feed the sharks. Its dangerous.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: vood0gi can bet your ass not all 2 year olds will understand that you being broke or they already have one sitting at home is a valid reason as to why they cant have the toy. so they continue to throw a fit.

So, then the solution is that you smack them on their ass. And you can conclude that they understand that?

 

[g8wayrebel]

I was beat as a kid and it never did a thing for me. As a matter of fact, after my teachers signing an assignment book , my step-father checking it and initialling the book that it was complete and correct, I would throw it out if the bus window on the way back to school.
I suggest that you not spank them at the time.Wait until you have control, sit them down and explain why what they did is wrong then if you think it is still mandated explain that to them as well. A good spanking has its merits, but only if they spankee understands the purpose is to modify behavior and not a loss of temper on your part.Showing discipline develops discipline.. I think you could find better more effective lessons in most cases if you tried. I do feel that disrespecting "your" mother is one of a few actions that absolutely require punishment. We all have to have respect to survive in this world , and I believe that starts at home with Mom. In your case,the severity of the punishment would be based on the fact that he clearly talked back in disrespect. I think I would find out if he actually knew what he said and base the severity it on that. In either case, a spanking of some kind would definitely be following the conversation.

 

[vood0g]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: vood0gi can bet your ass not all 2 year olds will understand that you being broke or they already have one sitting at home is a valid reason as to why they cant have the toy. so they continue to throw a fit.

So, then the solution is that you smack them on their ass. And you can conclude that they understand that?

(this has never happened to me in the store because my kids no better, but i am just putting myself in the situation for the sake of argument).

smacking them on their ass isnt for them to understand my reasoning for why they cant have the toy. if i already told them why, and they do not understand it and start to throw a tantrum, then a smack on the ass is needed just for them to shut the hell up and quit acting like a spoiled, rotten piece of shit.

the smack on the ass, as they will come to understand, means that i already told them no so quit throwing a tantrum.

look, wingznut, i am not sure how your kids are. but the reason why kids are called kids is because they are in the process of growing up and do not have full reasoning capabilities that we as adults have. some children may be able to reasoned with to some extent, but you cannot reason with them on all situations.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: vood0g
if i already told them why, and they do not understand it and start to throw a tantrum, then a smack on the ass is needed just for them to shut the hell up and quit acting like a spoiled, rotten piece of shit.

And here's where we differ immensely.

 

[Cruez]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Cruez

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Cruez

But that doesn't answer the question.

If the only way to convince your child to behave properly (in whatever circumstance) is the threat of pain, why do you think that is? (See above examples of possible, but obviously not the only, reasons.)

vood0g, or anyone else, feel free to answer as well.

For one, It will get their attention and they know that you are being serious.

 

[OverVolt]

Originally posted by: Citrix
Im glad to hear there are other parents who acutally care and let their kids know that certain behavior is just not acceptable nor tolerated. If my kid ever and i mean ever called my wife/ his mom a bitch he would be in a world of trouble.

My thoughts are this. It was great that he took the initiative to appoligize on his on, wait a week, evaluate him, watch him and his behavior. if you see that he is truly sorry for calling his mother such a vial name, sit him down and talk to him man to man. Make sure he realizes that what he said was very hurtful and that he understands that sometimes the words he chooses to use cut deaper than anything else, then give him his PS2 back.

i know, he shouldn't get food and or water for like two weeks, he can find his own, little 8yr old bastage!

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Cruez
For one, It will get their attention and they know that you are being serious.

Oh, I realize what spanking accomplishes, and yes it'll definitely get their attention. But my question is why do you think you can't get their attention and have them realize the importance without resorting to smacking them? What's missing for that to happen?

 

[Cruez]

It is a known fact that most young kids have a short attention span....(not even including the ones that "need" to be on Ritalin)...B.S. IMO... They are naturally curious, that takes away part of their attention....plus they try test you to see what they can get away with...
You add all of these together and you have a being that doesn't care what you are saying to them, unless THEY think it is important to THEM.

How did you enforce your wishes on yours..??? raising your voice? When a child is very small and you raise your voice to get their attention, it will startle them, right?....even to the point of crying. Is that not in itself is a type of emotional trauma?? by scareing them..??

I am not saying that all of the kids need to be spanked. I know some that never are spanked and are great, and I know others that don't get it, but really should because they do not listen to a thing their parents say. It if got to that point then spanking would be an attention getter, letting them know that you mean business.

Either way, they learn from one way or another, that you are calling the shots. Either by scareing, threatening, or spanking them. Then they will learn not to do things that they know are wrong., and the things that they are unsure of, but bad anyway, those are the times that you have a talk...to be sure that it doesn't happen again... or they will face the consequences.

 

[vood0g]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: vood0g
if i already told them why, and they do not understand it and start to throw a tantrum, then a smack on the ass is needed just for them to shut the hell up and quit acting like a spoiled, rotten piece of shit.

And here's where we differ immensely.

you say that a child is capable of understanding what you say. i do agree with that to some extent. but do you really think a child will always understand your view? and if they dont then what? you will continue to let them act out just because they dont understand why what they are doing is wrong?

i look at teenagers and i see they are doing the dumbest sh1t possible. yet they think its ok to do it. parents try to explain to them its wrong, but yet they still do it. even adults have the same problems sometimes. you come to ATOT and u will see at least 10 threads with some asshat going off on something stupid. older people have reasoning problems and you can actually sit there and say that you can always talk to your kids without smacking them.

once talking doesnt work, then it's time to spank them just to keep them in line. the fear of pain can get most children to stop what they are doing. tell your kids to stop jumping on the bed because they may fall and hurt themselves. they will still do it. tell them if they jump on the bed and hurt themselves and you will have to take them to the doctor and they will stop. why? they know a doctor is a scary/painful person to see. children's minds as complex and smart as people say they are still function on a very simple basis. there are just some concepts that they can not grasp.

 

[Don66]

Originally posted by: Wingznut
Where do you suppose he learned to call his mom such a thing?

(Btw, are you the bio-dad?... Married to his mom?)

That's my question..

 

[Pliablemoose]

Stick by your guns, never cave in.

Spanking is great too, don't brutalize them, but a good spanking never caused a kid to turn to a life of crime...

Also, I see many posters saying to reason with your child. Kids need to know exactly why they're bieng punished, but don't give tham any data they don't need, it just muddies the water of a good negative reinforcement.