Trudeau resigns.

[Red Squirrel]

The only reason CRA office is in Sudbury is to provide employment in Northern Ontario. You are against government supporting citizens.


Private security instead of police will be cheaper? Ahahahahha

The goal of government shouldn't be to be an employer. Someone on welfare and someone that works for the government puts the same burden on the tax payers. If there's one thing the government should do is encourage growth of private sector. Get out of the way when someone wants to start a new mine, or wants to drill for oil, or wants to build a factory etc. Let private sector do it's thing. Again there should still be SOME regulations, but not to the point that half the cost of operating is because of the government being in the way so it ends up cheaper to outsource to China.

And I never said anything about private security. Although private security (or anyone for that matter) should have more power, if someone tries to steal or assault the security guard should be allowed to use force. This would actually be a good example of smaller government, let people take care of problems without getting in the way. It cost the government nothing to do that, and the problem is solved.

 

[MrSquished]

The goal of government shouldn't be to be an employer. Someone on welfare and someone that works for the government puts the same burden on the tax payers. If there's one thing the government should do is encourage growth of private sector. Get out of the way when someone wants to start a new mine, or wants to drill for oil, or wants to build a factory etc. Let private sector do it's thing. Again there should still be SOME regulations, but not to the point that half the cost of operating is because of the government being in the way so it ends up cheaper to outsource to China. .

And I never said anything about private security. Although private security (or anyone for that matter) should have more power, if someone tries to steal or assault the security guard should be allowed to use force. This would actually be a good example of smaller government, let people take care of problems without getting in the way. It cost the government nothing to do that, and the problem is solved.

You are literally the recipient of government welfare and the redistribution of wealth from more urban areas who create positive wealth for Canada, vs rural areas which take subsidies to survive. You are a drag. I say we cut you fuckers off from this welfare you leeches.

 

[WelshBloke]

The goal of government shouldn't be to be an employer.

But they have to be an employer unless you are suggesting that all government funded work should be voluntary.

Someone on welfare and someone that works for the government puts the same burden on the tax payers.

So soldiers on active duty are a burden, police officers? There's a lot of government funded jobs that are funded by the government because private enterprise can't be trusted to do them.

If there's one thing the government should do is encourage growth of private sector. Get out of the way when someone wants to start a new mine, or wants to drill for oil, or wants to build a factory etc. Let private sector do it's thing. Again there should still be SOME regulations, but not to the point that half the cost of operating is because of the government being in the way so it ends up cheaper to outsource to China.

Those regulations didn't suddenly appear from a vacuum. They are there precisely because the private sector needed to be reined in. Unless you like rivers so polluted they catch on fire or children the age of six working in mines.

And I never said anything about private security. Although private security (or anyone for that matter) should have more power, if someone tries to steal or assault the security guard should be allowed to use force.

Private security should have the exact same rights as regular citizens. If they want to join the military or the police force they can do that.

This would actually be a good example of smaller government, let people take care of problems without getting in the way. It cost the government nothing to do that, and the problem is solved.

So letting a self identified group have power over regular citizens wouldn't cause any extra work for the government through the police and justice systems?
Personally I'm against having some sort of unregulated paramilitaries having the power of arrest over me but you do you!

 

[coldmeat]

Dude wants to live in Brazil.

 

[Fenixgoon]

The goal of government shouldn't be to be an employer. Someone on welfare and someone that works for the government puts the same burden on the tax payers. If there's one thing the government should do is encourage growth of private sector. Get out of the way when someone wants to start a new mine, or wants to drill for oil, or wants to build a factory etc. Let private sector do it's thing. Again there should still be SOME regulations, but not to the point that half the cost of operating is because of the government being in the way so it ends up cheaper to outsource to China.

And I never said anything about private security. Although private security (or anyone for that matter) should have more power, if someone tries to steal or assault the security guard should be allowed to use force. This would actually be a good example of smaller government, let people take care of problems without getting in the way. It cost the government nothing to do that, and the problem is solved.

Why do you think things are cheaper in China vs the US or Canada?

 

[sdifox]

The goal of government shouldn't be to be an employer. Someone on welfare and someone that works for the government puts the same burden on the tax payers. If there's one thing the government should do is encourage growth of private sector. Get out of the way when someone wants to start a new mine, or wants to drill for oil, or wants to build a factory etc. Let private sector do it's thing. Again there should still be SOME regulations, but not to the point that half the cost of operating is because of the government being in the way so it ends up cheaper to outsource to China.

And I never said anything about private security. Although private security (or anyone for that matter) should have more power, if someone tries to steal or assault the security guard should be allowed to use force. This would actually be a good example of smaller government, let people take care of problems without getting in the way. It cost the government nothing to do that, and the problem is solved.

Police is like 20% of a city's budget, then you have to add firefighters and EMS. You want to cut all government spending down to 10% GDP, emergency services don't get funded.

Healthcare is 1/3rd of government spending. That is more than 10% of GDP all by itself.

Your hero Harper sold out the Canadians by dropping the softwood dispute AFTER WTO agreed with Canada's position.

 

[ivwshane]

The goal of government shouldn't be to be an employer. Someone on welfare and someone that works for the government puts the same burden on the tax payers. If there's one thing the government should do is encourage growth of private sector. Get out of the way when someone wants to start a new mine, or wants to drill for oil, or wants to build a factory etc. Let private sector do it's thing. Again there should still be SOME regulations, but not to the point that half the cost of operating is because of the government being in the way so it ends up cheaper to outsource to China.

And I never said anything about private security. Although private security (or anyone for that matter) should have more power, if someone tries to steal or assault the security guard should be allowed to use force. This would actually be a good example of smaller government, let people take care of problems without getting in the way. It cost the government nothing to do that, and the problem is solved.

How does government encourage growth? Subsidies? Like encouraging people to buy electric vehicles? Solar generation/creation? By getting people to turn in their old cars so they can buy newer more efficient ones? Subsidies for updating people’s homes to be more energy efficient? Subsidies for companies to build manufacturing plants in the US? Every single one of these spurs growth, do you support them?

How about investment in infrastructure? Do you think making roads and bridges not only safer but smoother, more efficient, is good for the economy when people won’t have to spend as much trying to maintain their vehicle because the roads are in better shape and supply chain infrastructure is functioning properly?

Do you think it’s good for the country and the economy to have healthy workers or workers who aren’t burdened by massive medical debt? Do you think it’s good for the economy to have workers who are skilled or educated in various fields that needed, such as doctors, teachers, welders, carpenters, mechanics, etc? Do you think the government should do things like subsidize education in those areas in order to encourage people to get trained in those fields?

Let me know if that’s what you are talking about because your post contained very little substance and a lot of buzzwords. But just based on those buzzwords I would go out on a limb and say about 98% of the people on the forum support the same thing as you. Now if the above aren’t the kind of things you are talking about you’ll need to expand and provide examples of what you are talking about.

 

[Red Squirrel]

But they have to be an employer unless you are suggesting that all government funded work should be voluntary.

So soldiers on active duty are a burden, police officers? There's a lot of government funded jobs that are funded by the government because private enterprise can't be trusted to do them.

Those regulations didn't suddenly appear from a vacuum. They are there precisely because the private sector needed to be reined in. Unless you like rivers so polluted they catch on fire or children the age of six working in mines.

Private security should have the exact same rights as regular citizens. If they want to join the military or the police force they can do that.

So letting a self identified group have power over regular citizens wouldn't cause any extra work for the government through the police and justice systems?
Personally I'm against having some sort of unregulated paramilitaries having the power of arrest over me but you do you!

Again going with the extremes. There is obviously a need for SOME government jobs, it's just that it shouldn't be the goal to keep creating more.The goal should be to keep things efficient. If something can be automated or streamlined, then do it. Run with the least amount of people as possible in order to reduce the tax burden. I never said soliders are a burden. But if the military starts spending rediculous amounts of money on something they don't need, like F35's that just end up parked and not used... then yeah maybe, don't do that.

Over the years the government has done nothing but grow and grow, while nothing of value really happens, things are only getting worse.

Oh and another example of waste, arrivescam. Shit like that needs to stop. Billions of dollars spent on an app made by 2 people living in their grandma's basement is completely insane. Stuff like that is where the cuts need to happen and there needs to be accountability.

 

[WelshBloke]

Again going with the extremes.

None of my examples there are extreme. If you are referring to the six year olds in mines and rivers of fire they are things that happened and they are reasons why we regulated private enterprise.

There is obviously a need for SOME government jobs, it's just that it shouldn't be the goal to keep creating more.

As populations get bigger there will obviously be a need for more government jobs. Remember police and judges are government jobs, in my country doctors and nurses are government jobs.

The goal should be to keep things efficient. If something can be automated or streamlined, then do it. Run with the least amount of people as possible in order to reduce the tax burden.

So a department to cut other departments then?

I never said soliders are a burden.

You said "Someone on welfare and someone that works for the government puts the same burden on the tax payers." Soldiers work for the government.

But if the military starts spending rediculous amounts of money on something they don't need, like F35's that just end up parked and not used... then yeah maybe, don't do that.

So another government department to keep checks on that?

Over the years the government has done nothing but grow and grow, while nothing of value really happens, things are only getting worse.

I mean thats clearly bullshit. You're saying that there's no government funded police or schools? No judiciary? You really cant think of anything funded by the government in the last few years that has any value?

Oh and another example of waste, arrivescam. Shit like that needs to stop. Billions of dollars spent on an app made by 2 people living in their grandma's basement is completely insane.

I mean theres always shit that get wasted or goes wrong, I have no idea what ArriveCan is but I see that it cost $60m and the CA federal budget is over $500B but its the right wings bugbear in CA at the mo.

 

[sdifox]

None of my examples there are extreme. If you are referring to the six year olds in mines and rivers of fire they are things that happened and they are reasons why we regulated private enterprise.

As populations get bigger there will obviously be a need for more government jobs. Remember police and judges are government jobs, in my country doctors and nurses are government jobs.

So a department to cut other departments then?

You said "Someone on welfare and someone that works for the government puts the same burden on the tax payers." Soldiers work for the government.

So another government department to keep checks on that?

I mean thats clearly bullshit. You're saying that there's no government funded police or schools? No judiciary? You really cant think of anything funded by the government in the last few years that has any value?

I mean theres always shit that get wasted or goes wrong, I have no idea what ArriveCan is but I see that it cost $60m and the CA federal budget is over $500B but its the right wings bugbear in CA at the mo.

ArriveCan was more fraud than waste. Similar to the PPA scandal in UK. Corrupt public servant colluded with scam contractor

 

[ivwshane]

Again going with the extremes. There is obviously a need for SOME government jobs, it's just that it shouldn't be the goal to keep creating more.The goal should be to keep things efficient. If something can be automated or streamlined, then do it. Run with the least amount of people as possible in order to reduce the tax burden. I never said soliders are a burden. But if the military starts spending rediculous amounts of money on something they don't need, like F35's that just end up parked and not used... then yeah maybe, don't do that.

Over the years the government has done nothing but grow and grow, while nothing of value really happens, things are only getting worse.

Oh and another example of waste, arrivescam. Shit like that needs to stop. Billions of dollars spent on an app made by 2 people living in their grandma's basement is completely insane. Stuff like that is where the cuts need to happen and there needs to be accountability.

So something like automatically filing taxes for the people and sending them a bill or check would be an example of government efficiency then right? Would cutting the number of agents able to process returns or replace employees who are retiring be an example of efficient government? What about not having enough judges and processors to handle immigration requests forcing millions of immigrants to wait in this country for months and years? Is that efficient?

Would an example of government efficiency be hamstringing a government entity so that the services it provides to people are slowed? Like say the mail? What about ensuring the right people use the correct bathroom? Is that an example of good government efficiency?

Also, I’d like to know who says the goal of government is to keep creating more government jobs.

 

[WelshBloke]

ArriveCan was more fraud than waste. Similar to the PPA scandal in UK. Corrupt public servant colluded with scam contractor

Anyone called to account?

 

[ivwshane]

ArriveCan was more fraud than waste. Similar to the PPA scandal in UK. Corrupt public servant colluded with scam contractor

And who should have been the people to catch that fraud?

 

[WelshBloke]

So something like automatically filing taxes for the people and sending them a bill or check would be an example of government efficiency then right? Would cutting the number of agents able to process returns or replace employees who are retiring be an example of efficient government? What about not having enough judges and processors to handle immigration requests forcing millions of immigrants to wait in this country for months and years? Is that efficient?

Would an example of government efficiency be hamstringing a government entity so that the services it provides to people are slowed? Like say the mail? What about ensuring the right people use the correct bathroom? Is that an example of good government efficiency?

Also, I’d like to know who says the goal of government is to keep creating more government jobs.

I remember arguing about "efficiency" Vs "effectiveness" with someone years ago!

Basically they were arguing that the NHS needs to be more efficient and run like a business, I was arguing that the NHS can never be run like a business and the strive for efficiency is harming it's effectiveness.

Like an efficient health service would be running at maximum capacity at all times, you wouldn't have empty beds because that's a resource going to waste. All your operating theatre lists should be full at all time.
Now that's great for efficiency but it's not very effective. If there's a major accident and there's no spare bed capacity or theatre space things get awkward. When flu season hits we suddenly don't have anywhere near enough beds or staff.
An effective NHS would have the slack capacity to handle any sudden excessive admissions at all times and should have the space to plan for expected excess admissions.


Hope that kinda makes sense as it's a personal bgbear of mine but I'm a bit too stoned to explain it fully!

 

[ivwshane]

I remember arguing about "efficiency" Vs "effectiveness" with someone years ago!

Basically they were arguing that the NHS needs to be more efficient and run like a business, I was arguing that the NHS can never be run like a business and the strive for efficiency is harming it's effectiveness.

Like an efficient health service would be running at maximum capacity at all times, you wouldn't have empty beds because that's a resource going to waste. All your operating theatre lists should be full at all time.
Now that's great for efficiency but it's not very effective. If there's a major accident and there's no spare bed capacity or theatre space things get awkward. When flu season hits we suddenly don't have anywhere near enough beds or staff.
An effective NHS would have the slack capacity to handle any sudden excessive admissions at all times and should have the space to plan for expected excess admissions.


Hope that kinda makes sense as it's a personal bgbear of mine but I'm a bit too stoned to explain it fully!

It makes perfect sense. It’s why I don’t care about the size of government so long as its policy goals are met. An efficient government is an effective one. That being said I also believe that policies should have benchmarks in them and clear stated goals (including timeframes) and when those goals aren’t met they should be sunsetted or require reevaluation and updating.

People who think government should be smaller rarely take into consideration whether or not that would produce good governance.

 

[sdifox]

Anyone called to account

Investigation ongoing. Two public servants suspended pending investigation.

 

[sdifox]

One of the biggest waste in government is actually compliance. The number of hoops you have to jump through just to get a project going is at least a quarter of the total cost. But because it's public money the public demands fair and equitable treatment of vendors. Just fucking reading through the RFP submissions is a monumental task. Oh no matter who was picked, guaranteed some other vendor would file a dispute and cause more delay and increase cost.


I was hiring a DBA once and had to read through 700 resumes. Including a FedEx driver with zero computer experience. But because it had to be fair and equitable, we couldn't even have HR screen them first through keywords. I had to provide reason for rejection for every single fucking submission.

Yes, a lot of copy and paste was used.

 

[Red Squirrel]

So something like automatically filing taxes for the people and sending them a bill or check would be an example of government efficiency then right? Would cutting the number of agents able to process returns or replace employees who are retiring be an example of efficient government? What about not having enough judges and processors to handle immigration requests forcing millions of immigrants to wait in this country for months and years? Is that efficient?

Would an example of government efficiency be hamstringing a government entity so that the services it provides to people are slowed? Like say the mail? What about ensuring the right people use the correct bathroom? Is that an example of good government efficiency?

Also, I’d like to know who says the goal of government is to keep creating more government jobs.

A simpler tax system could be 99.9% automated electronically. It's already partially there, taxes come off your pay cheque. So get rid of all the weird rules where you can end up owing more, or getting a return, just make it so the right amount always gets taken out, streamline the entire system so it's simpler and easier to automate, no more tax season. In an ideal world we'd also get rid of sales tax, that is one of the most complicated taxes to administer, a lot of the burden goes on business owners but some on the government too. Just use income tax for the things sales tax cover, we pay more than enough, they just need to budget better. Ideally there should be one central tax system that then distributes to the provinces, and then municipalities based on a formula that accounts for land mass and population. Whole thing could be automated by a small server farm, along with many government systems, then have a team of maybe 10 IT people whose job is to just maintain these systems and make sure they work. Instead of 1,000's of bureaucrats doing stuff manually.

And yes for once I agree with the fox, all the compliance and red tape stuff also generates lot of inefficiency. Need to streamline lot of that stuff. Trying to get anything done these days like running a business or building something, and the government rears it's ugly ass in your face and slows things down, and all these departments cost tax payer money.

 

[sdifox]

And who should have been the people to catch that fraud?

A lot of safeguards were suspended due to covid

 

[KMFJD]

more folksy wisdom from a person afraid of cities with non whites

 

[sandorski]

A simpler tax system could be 99.9% automated electronically. It's already partially there, taxes come off your pay cheque. So get rid of all the weird rules where you can end up owing more, or getting a return, just make it so the right amount always gets taken out, streamline the entire system so it's simpler and easier to automate, no more tax season. In an ideal world we'd also get rid of sales tax, that is one of the most complicated taxes to administer, a lot of the burden goes on business owners but some on the government too. Just use income tax for the things sales tax cover, we pay more than enough, they just need to budget better. Ideally there should be one central tax system that then distributes to the provinces, and then municipalities based on a formula that accounts for land mass and population. Whole thing could be automated by a small server farm, along with many government systems, then have a team of maybe 10 IT people whose job is to just maintain these systems and make sure they work. Instead of 1,000's of bureaucrats doing stuff manually.

And yes for once I agree with the fox, all the compliance and red tape stuff also generates lot of inefficiency. Need to streamline lot of that stuff. Trying to get anything done these days like running a business or building something, and the government rears it's ugly ass in your face and slows things down, and all these departments cost tax payer money.

Go read some History. Government built the foundation of Canada. There are people who see all that Publicly spent money and just wish it went into their pocket. There are things that the Markets are crap at. Government needs to be the size that keeps the Nation working. There is no Too Big or Too Small.

 

[IronWing]

Ideally there should be one central tax system that then distributes to the provinces, and then municipalities based on a formula that accounts for land mass and population.

Tax people who have more land at a higher rate? Seems reasonable.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Tax people who have more land at a higher rate? Seems reasonable.

No go by income, you make more money you pay more tax. Get rid of every other tax. That seems like the most fair way to go about it. It also allows people to be able to retire and keep the land they worked hard for.

 

[Fenixgoon]

No go by income, you make more money you pay more tax. Get rid of every other tax. That seems like the most fair way to go about it. It also allows people to be able to retire and keep the land they worked hard for.

1) Whoa whoa what kind of commie idea is this, taxing based on income?
2) why should a retiree out in a rural area receive preferential treatment over a retiree in a dense city if they have the same income? People in the city worked hard for their land too, even if it is a physically smaller parcel

 

[pmv]

Dude wants to live in Brazil.

Or Somalia. Sounds like he thinks a system based on warlords is the way to go. Just call them 'private security firms' and you're good.