Trump acts against Syria- 49 Tomahawk Missiles strike air force base.

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WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
I am saying we apply the same standard to Trump's actions in the Presidency as in his advocacy for birtherism. In other words we should be way past the "fool me twice, same on me" by several orders of magnitude.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
I am saying we apply the same standard to Trump's actions in the Presidency as in his advocacy for birtherism. In other words we should be way past the "fool me twice, same on me" by several orders of magnitude.

Understand what you are saying. "Birthers were fools so let's be fools now".

Why the hell would anyone want to do that?

BTW if any wants to complain about the runway itself not being bombed, Tomahawks are completely wrong for that purpose.

That would involve sending a plane in with a pilot and something like a Durandal.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,558
146
I'm not sure what your point is. I was surprised by ivwshane saying "old news", and responded with the only similar thing I had heard lately. In my second paragraph (and perhaps I didn't make this obvious enough) I was referring to the actual news based on quotes from the Pentagon spokesman, and you're talking about conspiracy theories?

either way, it's interesting that Trump's purported (self-proclaimed) genius with "doing military" was that you don't tell people stuff. You don't announce things. You just do it. Don't tell them your where you are going, and what you are going to attack! Obama is teh dumb! ....so this "sudden secret attack" that Trump ordered in an instant.

Yeah, he kept it secret. From Congress. But not from his targets:

"Ring-a-ding-ding Vlady and Assadalina! Big boom boom sticks coming your way! You got about 30 minutes to haul ass and, you're welcome!"

what a fuckwad.
 
Reactions: ivwshane

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,669
24,970
136
So much for Trump keeping secrets and not telling anyone where we are going to attack.

Such a beta move.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
either way, it's interesting that Trump's purported (self-proclaimed) genius with "doing military" was that you don't tell people stuff. You don't announce things. You just do it. Don't tell them your where you are going, and what you are going to attack! Obama is teh dumb! ....so this "sudden secret attack" that Trump ordered in an instant.

Yeah, he kept it secret. From Congress. But not from his targets:

"Ring-a-ding-ding Vlady and Assadalina! Big boom boom sticks coming your way! You got about 30 minutes to haul ass and, you're welcome!"

what a fuckwad.


One last time.
Obama had the tendency to say as a matter of policy to annouce what was and was not on the table. That is completely different from letting the Russians know we have not declared war on them. Did anyone know we were going to attack the airbase or anything? Not until the last minute.

Stop with politics dislike or like for Presidents people or else reality will be utterly incomprehensible.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,558
146
One last time.
Obama had the tendency to say as a matter of policy to annouce what was and was not on the table. That is completely different from letting the Russians know we have not declared war on them. Did anyone know we were going to attack the airbase or anything? Not until the last minute.

Stop with politics dislike or like for Presidents people or else reality will be utterly incomprehensible.

so, you agree that Trump has utterly failed in being the strong "military man" at least, as Americuns should see him, right? He warned them about what he was doing, which is a complete 180 from his claimed genius militariness--a large part of what presumably got his fans all wet to vote for him.

I'm not talking about sound policy/strategy of not starting a war against your frenemies, but of Trump's continued two-faced, non-thinking, poop before you drop your pants personae.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
so, you agree that Trump has utterly failed in being the strong "military man" at least, as Americuns should see him, right? He warned them about what he was doing, which is a complete 180 from his claimed genius militariness--a large part of what presumably got his fans all wet to vote for him.

I'm not talking about sound policy/strategy of not starting a war against your frenemies, but of Trump's continued two-faced, non-thinking, poop before you drop your pants personae.

Actually I'm not going to say anything more other than I would do very much as did Trump if I were to involve the military in an action. The failing is to not establish a clear policy and that does not include red lines or what I would do or do not do.

It is perfectly logical to have a policy of not saying what actions in advance of an action and letting the Russians and Syrians know so people aren't killed. Killing was NOT the goal.

Strategy and tactics aren't something many people understand, but this is 101 level.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,282
28,141
136
His dog is quite serious right now.

But me? I'm still scratching my head over the "national security" claim behind this.
You can stop scratching, there isn't one. In fact lobbing missiles into Syria was illegal. Obama tried to do it the right way. Follow the Constitution, go to Congress. Republicans refused. Now most of them are all rah-rah we now have Reagan 2.

Without a follow up plan the only thing we managed is a fireworks show. An expensive show.
 

cyclohexane

Platinum Member
Feb 12, 2005
2,837
19
81
What I thought Hilary was the warmonger?

Didn't trumpeters vote for him because he "won't get us involved in the Middle East"?

Lol
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
Yeah, especially since Trump has repeatedly said America first and that Syria wasn't our business and we wouldn't get involved.
What are the US interests in Syria and why does it make sense to get involved? I must say it seems irrational to act now. How about we stop getting involved in foreign wars that don't align with our interests.

Yeah, using chemical weapons is bad, and the world shouldn't shrug its shoulders at it. But in the context of Assad's war against his own people, only the 'chemical weapons' part stands out; the 'killing lots of people, including children' part doesn't. So why now, indeed?

Unfortunately, the answer is clear: we've put our cable-TV-watching grandpa in charge of our armed forces, and this bit of cable news has caught grandpa's attention. That's all.

And Syria...there are no good guys and bad guys, just horrible guys and even worse guys. It's a tragedy that this war wrecks the lives of ordinary people who just want to get on with making a living and raising their kids. But without god-like powers, there really isn't much we can do for them.

All we can really do is drop bombs that will kill bad guys and noncombatants alike, and supply small arms to one group or another of bad guys that will just keep the fighting going longer.

There's a lot of good the U.S. can accomplish in the world. But there's a time to recognize our limitations as well. We can't rescue the people of Syria, and there's nothing constructive we can accomplish there. The same is almost certainly true of Yemen. Getting involved in these places serves no national interest that I can see. So let's stay the hell out of there.

This is well said and of course entirely correct.

Unfortunately, you voted a mentally unstable idiot into office - the guy who 2 years back ranted against getting involved in Syria with exactly that reasoning you've pointed out, and, ON A WHIM, now is so oh-so-concerned about babies killed in some part of the world, so extremely concerned that he orders airstrikes w/o even asking congress, let alone consulting with the UN.

If that should tell you one thing it's that you cannot take one yota of what Trump says or EVER said seriously, and that he is acting impulsively and irrationally. And someone who is acting impulsively, un-predictable and irrational will hardly grasp the logic of what you essentially said. (Or do anything based on logic/rationality, ever.) This is the guy who told you yesterday that we shouldn't get involved and "America first" and the next day he fires missiles.

** Even if we assume that the above is not the case and that he isn't acting un-predictably/irrational...say if we say it was a carefully planned "PR stunt" he pulled brilliantly-timed when the Chinese leader was in the country as well...a move to flex muscles and to send a msg, to the Russians, Chinese and Assad....this would mean he'd ordered this strike merely for personal/ego reasons...which would be even WORSE.

This is INDEED the man who would/could start WW3 now judging from this action alone. It really is, folks.
 
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Reactions: Capt Caveman

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,354
11,727
136
You can stop scratching, there isn't one. In fact lobbing missiles into Syria was illegal. Obama tried to do it the right way. Follow the Constitution, go to Congress. Republicans refused. Now most of them are all rah-rah we now have Reagan 2.

Without a follow up plan the only thing we managed is a fireworks show. An expensive show.

Hell, even the conservatives seem to think Trump broke both US and international laws...

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/trumps-illegal-attack/
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
Oh, here we go:

US aircraft carrier-led strike group headed towards Korean Peninsula
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
either way, it's interesting that Trump's purported (self-proclaimed) genius with "doing military" was that you don't tell people stuff. You don't announce things. You just do it. Don't tell them your where you are going, and what you are going to attack! Obama is teh dumb! ....so this "sudden secret attack" that Trump ordered in an instant.

Yeah, he kept it secret. From Congress. But not from his targets:

"Ring-a-ding-ding Vlady and Assadalina! Big boom boom sticks coming your way! You got about 30 minutes to haul ass and, you're welcome!"

what a fuckwad.

If he hadn't and those bombs killed some Russian pilots, the world today would have changed in a way that is way worse than possibly anything in our lifetime. Intentionally targeting an airfield filled with Russians is an ACT OF UNPROVOKED WAR against a nuclear armed nation.

Trump deserves condemnation for the attack. Nobody sane with a reasonable will to live should be criticizing Trump for warning the Russians.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
You can stop scratching, there isn't one. In fact lobbing missiles into Syria was illegal. Obama tried to do it the right way. Follow the Constitution, go to Congress. Republicans refused. Now most of them are all rah-rah we now have Reagan 2.

Without a follow up plan the only thing we managed is a fireworks show. An expensive show.

Yea I mentioned that earlier. I believe it also violated international law. It is pretty scary when you think about it. One man can unilaterally attack any sovereign nation on the planet and apparently nobody will attempt to hold him accountable.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,325
15,123
136
You simply do not understand strategic response. The first thing you fly to is conspiracy without any basis except for attacking a perfectly rational action on the part of the US. You labled this "War and retaliation". That would be the most stupid thing to do since Iraq. Further if there were conspiracy it would be the stupid beyond Trump and remember Mattis is in the mix and a couple other very good people. All that damage that didn't happen would have if Putin were complicit because he doesn't give a fuck about Syrians. This would have the qualities you insist are missing like a lot of blood.

I'll translate.

Red line drawn by Obama. Assad crosses it and nothing happens. Obama is full of shit, or so Assad assumes.
Trump elected and being another American he'll rant and rave and ignore Assad. If Trump responds then Assad knows that he is at risk.

Diplomacy, not war. A message not bodies and it makes perfect sense. Trump now has "talked" to Syria.

Now if Assad ignores the warning then watch what happens. If nothing more substantial happens in terms of US response then we'll look at it then.

But willfully killing Russians? What kind of drugs does it take to want that? That's real shit right there. I'll be damned if I want that. YMMV


Then what? This "strategy" is incomplete at best.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,354
11,727
136
If he hadn't and those bombs killed some Russian pilots, the world today would have changed in a way that is way worse than possibly anything in our lifetime. Intentionally targeting an airfield filled with Russians is an ACT OF UNPROVOKED WAR against a nuclear armed nation.

Trump deserves condemnation for the attack. Nobody sane with a reasonable will to live should be criticizing Trump for warning the Russians.

Nah, he had all the details worked out in advance with his pee-buddy, Vlad. No Soviets Russians were on the base that was bombed.
I can't help but think this was a play set up between Russia and Trump to give Trump a "strong leader" appearance to the world. Since it was said that the air strike was done by "russian planes, which Russia gave to Syria...it was probably Russian pilots in the cockpits...

Russia stirs the pot, (hidden as Syrians) Trump comes in to clean it up...even though he really didn't since the same city that was attacked has been attacked again...
https://www.yahoo.com/news/press-agency-trump-spoke-phone-saudi-king-salman-082550089.html

and supposedly, the air field is back in operation.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/syrian-governor-confirms-air-operating-again-195733861.html
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,571
7,634
136
Yea I mentioned that earlier. I believe it also violated international law. It is pretty scary when you think about it. One man can unilaterally attack any sovereign nation on the planet and apparently nobody will attempt to hold him accountable.

True, but misleading by omission. That "one man" will not be "held accountable" because a nation largely backs his actions.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,031
10,204
136
If he hadn't and those bombs killed some Russian pilots, the world today would have changed in a way that is way worse than possibly anything in our lifetime. Intentionally targeting an airfield filled with Russians is an ACT OF UNPROVOKED WAR against a nuclear armed nation.

Trump deserves condemnation for the attack. Nobody sane with a reasonable will to live should be criticizing Trump for warning the Russians.

This is a good point, however then it comes right back to what I said, being therefore what was the point in doing it (apart from a PR exercise)? Warning Putin means Assad pulls his stuff out, therefore making the exercise an entirely moot point, and not warning Putin runs the risk of hitting Putin's stuff and escalating the situation.
 

MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
45,885
66
91
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